Current Events > Do you believe Slavery should be completely removed from the constitution?

(+) Yeah! (+)

As in, no longer allowed in prisons?

Seems like a pretty obvious step and yet a surprising number of people seem to be on the wrong side of the decision.

And allow prisoners to vote.

Why? Because convicting people is abused by the justice system to remove people from their most nasic right: voting.

You are placing an incentive to the government to criminalize people just because they disagree politically.

Government/police should not be able to act on that incentive, otherwise they abuse it.

Yes, obviously. I also believe prisoners should be paid the minimum wage if they opt to work during their time.

Notti posted...

And allow prisoners to vote.

Why? Because convicting people is abused by the justice system to remove people from their most nasic right: voting.

You are placing an incentive to the government to criminalize people just because they disagree politically.

Government/police should not be able to act on that incentive, otherwise they abuse it.

Absolutely agree. There's also zero good reason felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, and I see no real issue, especially in modern times, with setting up voting in jails and prisons.

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Yes, obviously. I also believe prisoners should be paid the minimum wage if they opt to work during their time.

I'd be fine with paying less if the profit for their work was actually paying for the prison, but A) it goes in the pockets of greedy CEOs and B) even with them getting paid less it shouldn't be such an insulting amount.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yes to all of this.

Yes, and retroactive punishments for the slavers.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Yes, and retroactive punishments for the slavers.

Thoroughly unconstitutional and I 100% support it.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Thoroughly unconstitutional and I 100% support it.

Constitution: we should do something dumb and bad

Me: no

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Constitution: we should do something dumb and bad

Me: no

I was referring to punishing someone for something after it was made illegal. Thoroughly unconstitutional, but I don't think we need to have a law for people to know slavery is bad so I'm fine with it here.

Yup, there's no reasoning with slavers

It's easy, just don't keep slaves, it's the year of our lord 2023

Of course and "with all deliberate speed".

RuneterranSnap posted...

I was referring to punishing someone for something after it was made illegal.

I think most people got that. Most people.

Notti posted...

And allow prisoners to vote.

Why? Because convicting people is abused by the justice system to remove people from their most nasic right: voting.

You are placing an incentive to the government to criminalize people just because they disagree politically.

Government/police should not be able to act on that incentive, otherwise they abuse it.

I also believe that in order for laws to be legitimate, citizens who are subject to them should have a hand in their creation and implementation. By denying prisoners the right to vote, prisons lose any ability to be legitimate means of punishment.

RuneterranSnap posted...

I was referring to punishing someone for something after it was made illegal. Thoroughly unconstitutional, but I don't think we need to have a law for people to know slavery is bad so I'm fine with it here.

I know, I was just cracking a joke. I agree with you.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

I know, I was just cracking a joke. I agree with you.

Fair enough

Glob posted...

I also believe that in order for laws to be legitimate, citizens who are subject to them should have a hand in their creation and implementation. By denying prisoners the right to vote, prisons lose any ability to be legitimate means of punishment.

Agreed.

Mostly just to prevent abuse of any unjustly persecuted classes, as it's a minor cost to prevent that abuse

Yes. I ultimately oppose full prison abolition, but I am in favor of abolishing prison slave labor and near slave wage labor.

Also let's end the barbaric death penalty practice since one innocent man executed by the state is one too many, and we have many documented instances of innocent or later exonerated men being executed.

Torgo posted...

Yes. I ultimately oppose full prison abolition, but I am in favor of abolishing prison slave labor and near slave wage labor.

Also let's end the barbaric death penalty practice since one innocent man executed by the state is one too many, and we have many documented instances of innocent or later exonerated men being executed.

Yup, and the cost of the death penalty is more than life in prison anyway.

Yes, they should be able to get paid and vote.

Especially since quite a lot of labour society takes for granted is performed by prisoners. A legitimate wage for that work should be obvious.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Especially since quite a lot of labour society takes for granted is performed by prisoners. A legitimate wage for that work should be obvious.

It'd also do wonders for reducing recidivism if they had money from work on coming out.

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Yes, obviously. I also believe prisoners should be paid the minimum wage if they opt to work during their time.

Disagree. They get so many things for free we don't get. Their pay should reflect that. I feel they should be paid enough they don't have to eat the slop provided for them if they don't wanna.

There ain't much healthy in the canteen to eat but it at least tastes decent.

If they got paid minimum wage they'd be bankrolling money beyond what us average Joe's are capable of doing. They don't have bills to pay. Which I'd be OK with on one condition. They are forced to put a good chunk of it aside so they got funds when they get released.

Notti posted...

And allow prisoners to vote.

Why? Because convicting people is abused by the justice system to remove people from their most nasic right: voting.

You are placing an incentive to the government to criminalize people just because they disagree politically.

Government/police should not be able to act on that incentive, otherwise they abuse it.

i'm not sure about this. Voting. Do most of you guys agree with this? Have heard people say that if you're in prison you've forfeited some of your rights...etc...

Smallville posted...

i'm not sure about this. Voting. Do most of you guys agree with this? Have heard people say that if you're in prison you've forfeited some of your rights...etc...

I'm on the fence. I get what people are saying but also a lot of them have proven time and again they don't have good critical decision making skills. Maybe a compromise? Normally they can vote but not if a habitual felon?

I was floored by the amount of black inmates that where pro Trump.

Smallville posted...

i'm not sure about this. Voting. Do most of you guys agree with this? Have heard people say that if you're in prison you've forfeited some of your rights...etc...

You shouldn't forfeit any rights beyond what's necessary to imprison you. That includes voting and slavery. I'd also argue having a felony shouldn't automatically mean you lose rights to own guns if it was a nonviolent crime, but thats a pretty narrow group it'd effect for the amount of effort.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

I'm on the fence. I get what people are saying but also a lot of them have proven time and again they don't have good critical decision making skills. Maybe a compromise? Normally they can vote but not if a habitual felon?

I was floored by the amount of black inmates that where pro Trump.

If we're going to allow Trump supporters to vote then decision making doesn't factor in to who gets the right.

RuneterranSnap posted...

If we're going to allow Trump supporters to vote then decision making doesn't factor in to who gets the right.

They where only for him cause he once mentioned prison reform..

My point is with habitual felons it's a pretty much proven fact at that point..

As said I'm on the fence on that one. You got some damn intelligent inmates but for every one of them you got 5 dumbass ones.

Not to make fun of a guy but had one the other day who kept spelling fair as fear.

I read his greiveance. He was mad at a woman officer for chewing him out. After some digging I found out she was chewing him out cause he was trying to jack off on her then some more digging he's in for rape of someone younger than 15 and 2 assault on female charges. It can be real hard to have sympathy for someone like that

Sufferedphoneix posted...

They where only for him cause he once mentioned prison reform..

My point is with habitual felons it's a pretty much proven fact at that point..

As said I'm on the fence on that one. You got some damn intelligent inmates but for every one of them you got 5 dumbass ones.

Not to make fun of a guy but had one the other day who kept spelling fair as fear.

I read his greiveance. He was mad at a woman officer for chewing him out. After some digging I found out she was chewing him out cause he was trying to jack off on her then some more digging he's in for rape of someone younger than 15 and 2 assault on female charges. It can be real hard to have sympathy for someone like that

It doesn't matter. Everyone should have the right to vote, period.

If we allow Trump supporters to vote which we inexplicably still do, we cannot use level of intelligence or decision making ability as a justification to ban prisoners.

My answer requires more specific information. I think that community service type activities like cleaning up or repairing public areas should be a regular part of prison sentences and prisoners should not be paid for that.

Things that involve any sort of profit Im unsure if I think should be allowed even with 100% voluntary participation. It creates a system involving a vulnerable population that is so easily abused but, in theory, could also allow prisoners to build up some money while in prison so that they are less likely to be released into destitution.

RuneterranSnap posted...

It doesn't matter. Everyone should have the right to vote, period.

If we allow Trump supporters to vote which we inexplicably still do, we cannot use level of intelligence or decision making ability as a justification to ban prisoners.

We have moderately to wildly successful people that have made all the right choices in life that support Trump.

Someones political ideologies isn't the same ad someone who doesn't seem to understand raping kids is bad.

That's the kind of thing I fear is criminals starting to push for their criminal behavior to be legal. Cause let's face it some politicians only care about getting a vote so they'll back shit they don't even agree with to get said vote.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

We have moderately to wildly successful people that have made all the right choices in life that support Trump.

And that last point proves either they're terrible people or they make terrible choices and either way should mean they can't vote.

This isn't a debate.