Current Events > Americans, should US Government continue to send money to Ukraine?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Razor posted...

Yea bullshit. We have been supporting Ukraine with equipment since before this recent war even started and you all hopped on board, and we have sent by far the most weapons of all sorts, shit that has been critical to their defense. You should thank us if you love Ukraine so much. Obama wouldn't even send weapons when he was president, it took the fat orange guy to start that.

You only need one enemy, and that enemy is Russia. If Sweden wasn't somewhat scared of them, they wouldn't have petitioned for membership in NATO right after the Russian invasion. Finland did the same thing. You really need to show some respect and educate yourself. If Russia isn't a threat to the EU and you have it handled, why are your leaders and Ukraine begging for handouts from us, and why the hell are you telling me I'm wrong for answering this poll - yes but contribute less? You contradicted your own point about why we have to be more involved.

That's because we have a freakishly large GDP. And you are mad and offended, I am cool calm and collected. I already said, go back to my original comment, I support sending Ukraine our old or even new military equipment. I just expect you people to do the rest because it's your ass on the line, not ours. We would beat the holy shit out of Russia, their weakness and incompetence is totally exposed and it's great to see. Literally all they have are nukes and their own soldiers and citizens don't believe in this war largely imo.

You mean the fat orange guy that praises Putin and was trying to blackmail Ukraine to get dirt on Hunter Biden?

Why is it only European countries' asses on the line? Because they are closer? Russia successfully taking over Ukraine or anyone else would be bad for the entire world. And if Russia is so stupid and incompetent, then why should anyone worry about them at all?

This still gets back to...what the fuck is the point of America dumping trillions into defense, moreso than anything else if we should pretty much stay out of stuff that doesn't come to our shores?

Imagine a few trillion dollars more going into healthcare and public infrastructure among other things. Seems like that would benefit people a bit more than dating other countries to fuck around with us and find out.

hockeybub89 posted...

You mean the fat orange guy that praises Putin and was trying to blackmail Ukraine to get dirt on Hunter Biden?

Yep, Putin would not dare to try this shit when Trump was president. He waited for old, weak, babbling Biden.

Why is it only European countries' asses on the line? Because they are closer? Russia successfully taking over Ukraine or anyone else would be bad for the entire world. And if Russia is so stupid and incompetent, then why should anyone worry about them at all?

Yes because they are closer. As to your question, lots of people seem to be worried it could be them next. Which as a result of this pathetic invasion in Ukraine, seems a lot less likely. Anyways multiple people itt seem worried enough that they believe we should provide unlimited funding for this war, even though according to the other guy, they have it handled already.

This still gets back to...what the fuck is the point of America dumping trillions into defense, moreso than anything else if we should pretty much stay out of stuff that doesn't come to our shores?

Imagine a few trillion dollars more going into healthcare and public infrastructure among other things. Seems like that would benefit people a bit more than dating other countries to fuck around with us and find out.

Totally agree, imagine that. Sounds great, huh? We still do have some responsibility as a beacon of freedom to help, I said so, but the constant moving on from one war to the next is old. Shout-out to Bernie Sanders.

Razor posted...

Yea bullshit. We have been supporting Ukraine with equipment since before this recent war even started and you all hopped on board, and we have sent by far the most weapons of all sorts, shit that has been critical to their defense. You should thank us if you love Ukraine so much. Obama wouldn't even send weapons when he was president, it took the fat orange guy to start that.

Literally not bullshit, I have provided you with the data. You're also now moving the goalposts

You only need one enemy, and that enemy is Russia. If Sweden wasn't somewhat scared of them, they wouldn't have petitioned for membership in NATO right after the Russian invasion. Finland did the same thing. You really need to show some respect and educate yourself. If Russia isn't a threat to the EU and you have it handled, why are your leaders and Ukraine begging for handouts from us, and why the hell are you telling me I'm wrong for answering this poll - yes but contribute less? You contradicted your own point about why we have to be more involved.

Do you honestly think that Russia comes out on top in a battle between them and the EU?

As for joining NATO, they mostly didn't join because they didn't want to needlessly piss of Russia. Due to simple geography, Russia is an important partner in the area and a more cordial relationship was a good thing. However, that was predicated on the faith that Russia wouldn't start shit, which has obviously been disproven. Ultimately, while I believe the EU would win a hypothetical war, the EU + NATO is an even stronger deterrent.

That's because we have a freakishly large GDP. And you are mad and offended, I am cool calm and collected. I already said, go back to my original comment, I support sending Ukraine our old or even new military equipment. I just expect you people to do the rest because it's your ass on the line, not ours. We would beat the holy shit out of Russia, their weakness and incompetence is totally exposed and it's great to see. Literally all they have are nukes and their own soldiers and citizens don't believe in this war largely imo.

That's literally the point of using a percentage of GDP rather than absolute numbers. However, in absolute terms you also fall behind the EU in providing aid. Did you even check the data that I have provided?

hockeybub89 posted...

This still gets back to...what the fuck is the point of America dumping trillions into defense, moreso than anything else if we should pretty much stay out of stuff that doesn't come to our shores?

Jobs, mostly.

Avirosb posted...

Jobs, mostly.

Military spending is a very inefficient creator of jobs.

You'd get twice as many from the equivalent investment in healthcare, and even more from education. Green energy and infrastructure are way ahead too.

But that would be woke socialism gone mad, or something.

Foppe posted...

Forgot to switch account?

Nope, since I only have this one account. But thanks for playing Whataboutism. Here are some lovely parting gifts....

TyVulpine posted...

Nope, since I only have this one account. But thanks for playing Whataboutism. Here are some lovely parting gifts....

So why did you reply to yourself?

Foppe posted...

So why did you reply to yourself?

You suck at trolling. Find something better to do with your time.

TyVulpine posted...

You suck at trolling. Find something better to do with your time.

If that was trolling then it's clearly working :\

The answer is yes. Any other answer is wrong and suspect.

Razor posted...

Yep, Putin would not dare to try this shit when Trump was president. He waited for old, weak, babbling Biden.

He was literally using Trump. We have this documented. You're just very out of touch.

Payzmaykr posted...

No. Weve spent my entire adult life fighting one forever war that bankrupted the entire generation. Our world doesnt solve problems. It drags them out into decades-long wars that accomplish nothing but making wartime profiteers richer. The world is always going to have conflicts and the United States tax payers shouldnt get the bill for all of them.

For not of the bullshit wars we do, I agree. The Korean war was the last war where we were the good guys. After that it was the fucked up Vietnam war and every other forever war.

Though I do think we should have stayed in Afghanistan. One, too keep a lid on Russia. Two the mineral wealth. Three to help the Afghanistan people make an actual government. Unfortunately we installed a shitty puppet who took our money and ran off with it.

As for Ukraine, it is purely a defensive war where they wanted and needed our help. This is different then the forever wars or the other wars we have been in. Ukraine must be defended less Putin get even more power. Not jsut to make sure Putin doesn't get more land form invading but also so he doesn't own a major food source for the world. You think he has power now with oil? Wait tell he also has people's lively hood of getting to eat. Sanctions would become impossible as famine and grocery prices hike up to astronomical levels. We must defend Ukraine at all costs. If it gets down to it and Ukraine starts to lose again, NATO should send ground forces and declare war on Russia. This is not a game.

Seriously, the Ukraine War is the most convenient thing to happen to America in a long time. It's a 90% discount coupon on dealing with Russia. Prior to Trump, Republicans would've been all over this.

Guide posted...

He was literally using Trump. We have this documented. You're just very out of touch.

He thinks Biden is weak so we already knew that

Razor posted...

Yep, Putin would not dare to try this shit when Trump was president. He waited for old, weak, babbling Biden.

ROFL, so hilariously wrong.

Razor posted...

Yep, Putin would not dare to try this shit when Trump was president. He waited for old, weak, babbling Biden.

Do you get your view of Trump via Ben Garrison cartoons?

reincarnator07 posted...

Literally not bullshit, I have provided you with the data. You're also now moving the goalposts

Are you saying the US hasn't sent the most lethal aid? Or are you comparing that to the total EU contributions (every country), which we still have committed more than everyone combined militarily? Which was my entire point.

Do you honestly think that Russia comes out on top in a battle between them and the EU?

As for joining NATO, they mostly didn't join because they didn't want to needlessly piss of Russia. Due to simple geography, Russia is an important partner in the area and a more cordial relationship was a good thing. However, that was predicated on the faith that Russia wouldn't start shit, which has obviously been disproven. Ultimately, while I believe the EU would win a hypothetical war, the EU + NATO is an even stronger deterrent.

No shit. If they didn't want the US as an ally, they would not join NATO. If they were confident in the EU, they wouldn't try to join NATO and step on toes as you said. Could Russia overpower the EU, no. But it's so much easier to make them back down when the threat of war with the United States is involved. Honestly we should just fire a fucking missile into the Kremlin, blow up Putin, and call it good.

That's literally the point of using a percentage of GDP rather than absolute numbers. However, in absolute terms you also fall behind the EU in providing aid. Did you even check the data that I have provided?

I don't give a shit if you think the US should allocate a certain percentage of GDP to help, when we have already done so much. Apparently another 21 billion is on the way. Show some respect, like I already told you.

RuneterranSnap posted...

He thinks Biden is weak so we already knew that

You don't think Biden is weak? He can barely even read a teleprompter without stuttering and looking like an old fool. Forgets where he is half the time. So you believe it's a coincidence Putin invaded After Biden was elected? If orange man was really Putin's bitch, why didn't he invade sooner and capitalize on that? He's been agitating this since Obama.

Razor posted...

So you believe it's a coincidence Putin invaded After Biden was elected? If orange man was really Putin's bitch, why didn't he invade sooner and capitalize on that? He's been agitating this since Obama.

He didn't invade under Trump because Trump was actively assisting him in gaining influence over Ukraine through legal means. Giuliani, as Trump's unofficial ambassador was regularly meeting with literal Russian agents holding seats in Ukraine's parliament. No need to invade.

Razor posted...

You don't think Biden is weak? He can barely even read a teleprompter without stuttering and looking like an old fool. Forgets where he is half the time. So you believe it's a coincidence Putin invaded After Biden was elected? If orange man was really Putin's bitch, why didn't he invade sooner and capitalize on that? He's been agitating this since Obama.

Man, right wing propaganda is a hell of a drug.

I love how anyone who tries to call Biden incompetent immediately reveals a lot about their own intelligence.

I'm sure the guy that said he would end sanctions amd demand Ukraine surrender land on live television would have totally helped Ukraine. Just as soon as they gave him the dirt he wanted to extort out of them.

Razor posted...

Are you saying the US hasn't sent the most lethal aid? Or are you comparing that to the total EU contributions (every country), which we still have committed more than everyone combined militarily? Which was my entire point.

In post 59, you said "If we kick in billions in hardware, they can't take over raw cash to keep the lights on and feed the homeless? Why the fuck should we have to do it all, they're swimming in money. We are in debt already.". Once it was demonstrated that they had, you've now moved the goalposts to specifically military aid, which specifically has little to do with the debt since a lot of the "money" being sent over is military surplus that was just gonna gather dust instead.

No shit. If they didn't want the US as an ally, they would not join NATO. If they were confident in the EU, they wouldn't try to join NATO and step on toes as you said. Could Russia overpower the EU, no. But it's so much easier to make them back down when the threat of war with the United States is involved. Honestly we should just fire a fucking missile into the Kremlin, blow up Putin, and call it good.

It's more that Russia has demonstrated that merely not stepping on toes is not enough. They had multiple agreements and declarations to not invade Ukraine that they broke. If you have an agreement with someone who continues to break agreements, you'd be a fool to be the only one continuing to stick to the agreement.

I don't give a shit if you think the US should allocate a certain percentage of GDP to help, when we have already done so much. Apparently another 21 billion is on the way. Show some respect, like I already told you.

Where did I say that the USA should allocate a certain percentage? Your claim was that the USA had given the most, my counter was that both in terms of absolute money and as a percentage of GDP, the USA had not given the most. I don't see why you're having so much issue with this concept aside from misguided patriotism.

You don't think Biden is weak? He can barely even read a teleprompter without stuttering and looking like an old fool. Forgets where he is half the time. So you believe it's a coincidence Putin invaded After Biden was elected? If orange man was really Putin's bitch, why didn't he invade sooner and capitalize on that? He's been agitating this since Obama.

My guy have you ever seen Trump try to read off a teleprompter? The dude's English is barely on par with a grade schooler. In contrast, Biden's stutter is likely down to the fact that... he literally has a stutter. I do think it's rather sad that these are the two candidates rather than someone more in touch with normal Americans, but I can't think of any age related issue of Biden that doesn't also apply to Trump.

As for why invade now, I'm pretty sure that's still an open question, if we're being honest. We all agree that both the EU or NATO could successfully take on Russia in open conflict. What Russia generally wants is the natural resources and the ports, with a bonus objective of taking enough land to the west that any land invasion would be funnelled by the terrain rather than the rather open plain that's the current borders. I've heard theories that Putin is dying and wants to leave his mark, but I'd want to see more evidence supporting that theory.

Boots on ground

Razor posted...

Are you saying the US hasn't sent the most lethal aid? Or are you comparing that to the total EU contributions (every country), which we still have committed more than everyone combined militarily? Which was my entire point.

No shit. If they didn't want the US as an ally, they would not join NATO. If they were confident in the EU, they wouldn't try to join NATO and step on toes as you said. Could Russia overpower the EU, no. But it's so much easier to make them back down when the threat of war with the United States is involved. Honestly we should just fire a fucking missile into the Kremlin, blow up Putin, and call it good.

I don't give a shit if you think the US should allocate a certain percentage of GDP to help, when we have already done so much. Apparently another 21 billion is on the way. Show some respect, like I already told you.

You don't think Biden is weak? He can barely even read a teleprompter without stuttering and looking like an old fool. Forgets where he is half the time. So you believe it's a coincidence Putin invaded After Biden was elected? If orange man was really Putin's bitch, why didn't he invade sooner and capitalize on that? He's been agitating this since Obama.

Put down the GQP kool-aid, dude.

reincarnator07 posted...

In post 59, you said "If we kick in billions in hardware, they can't take over raw cash to keep the lights on and feed the homeless? Why the fuck should we have to do it all, they're swimming in money. We are in debt already.". Once it was demonstrated that they had, you've now moved the goalposts to specifically military aid, which specifically has little to do with the debt since a lot of the "money" being sent over is military surplus that was just gonna gather dust instead.

We've sent billions in humanitarian aid as well. Sources I looked up are giving me dramatically different numbers on aid given by the EU and the US. Like tens of billions in difference, one says we've "approved" like 100 billion one says we've sent around 70 billion. I believe your source was wikipedia, which I don't have to take seriously.

It's more that Russia has demonstrated that merely not stepping on toes is not enough. They had multiple agreements and declarations to not invade Ukraine that they broke. If you have an agreement with someone who continues to break agreements, you'd be a fool to be the only one continuing to stick to the agreement.

Right, then you join NATO for extra security.

Where did I say that the USA should allocate a certain percentage? Your claim was that the USA had given the most, my counter was that both in terms of absolute money and as a percentage of GDP, the USA had not given the most. I don't see why you're having so much issue with this concept aside from misguided patriotism.

Issue with what concept? Even the EU countries like Latvia and Estonia I think that donated the most percentage of GDP , it was like 1%. Good on them but big whoop. I want you to give me some numbers on all this aid, and also consider you have to compare the US to the ENTIRE EU to almost make it somewhat even. Again, all I said was , yes but contribute less. Europe should give more. I understand they're helping , and they should, and they should do more.

My guy have you ever seen Trump try to read off a teleprompter? The dude's English is barely on par with a grade schooler. In contrast, Biden's stutter is likely down to the fact that... he literally has a stutter. I do think it's rather sad that these are the two candidates rather than someone more in touch with normal Americans, but I can't think of any age related issue of Biden that doesn't also apply to Trump.

It's funny seeing people defend Biden. I'm not here saying Trump was great, but Biden is a mess. And people are telling me I'm drinking Kool aid , that's wild. Guy can't even talk or stop sniffing people.

As for why invade now, I'm pretty sure that's still an open question, if we're being honest. We all agree that both the EU or NATO could successfully take on Russia in open conflict. What Russia generally wants is the natural resources and the ports, with a bonus objective of taking enough land to the west that any land invasion would be funnelled by the terrain rather than the rather open plain that's the current borders. I've heard theories that Putin is dying and wants to leave his mark, but I'd want to see more evidence supporting that theory.

Right, me saying he sees Biden as weak is valid and possible. Someone like Putin doesn't see the world the way a ceman does. He sees Biden falling off his bike and falling down the stairs, he sees weakness. Stuttering all over TV and giving up in the middle of his speeches.

Razor posted...

We've sent billions in humanitarian aid as well. Sources I looked up are giving me dramatically different numbers on aid given by the EU and the US. Like tens of billions in difference, one says we've "approved" like 100 billion one says we've sent around 70 billion. I believe your source was wikipedia, which I don't have to take seriously.

Right, then you join NATO for extra security.

Issue with what concept? Even the EU countries like Latvia and Estonia I think that donated the most percentage of GDP , it was like 1%. Good on them but big whoop. I want you to give me some numbers on all this aid, and also consider you have to compare the US to the ENTIRE EU to almost make it somewhat even. Again, all I said was , yes but contribute less. Europe should give more. I understand they're helping , and they should, and they should do more.

I literally provided numbers in my first post, numbers that were not from Wikipedia. This just proves that at no point did you actually check them out. There is no point in seeking out further sources for you if you're just going to intentionally ignore them.

It's funny seeing people defend Biden. I'm not here saying Trump was great, but Biden is a mess. And people are telling me I'm drinking Kool aid , that's wild. Guy can't even talk or stop sniffing people.

"Look, having nuclear my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart you know, if youre a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world its true! but when you're a conservative Republican they try oh, do they do a number thats why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because were a little disadvantaged but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me it would have been so easy, and its not as important as these lives are nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners now it used to be three, now its four but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they havent figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, its gonna take them about another 150 years but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible." - Donald J Trump

I pine for the days of having actual orators in office, but considering the last Republican that would fit that description was from 30 years ago, I don't exactly hold out hope from them here. Biden is a step down from Obama (and even Hillary) in this regard, but I actually still think he's a better speaker than Trump. When it comes down to actual policy (the thing that matters), I don't think the GOP in general has anything for normal people right now.

Right, me saying he sees Biden as weak is valid and possible. Someone like Putin doesn't see the world the way a ceman does. He sees Biden falling off his bike and falling down the stairs, he sees weakness. Stuttering all over TV and giving up in the middle of his speeches.

A more plausible explanation is that he was banking on Trump winning, who absolutely benefitted Russia while in office. The dude literally got impeached because he was trying to threaten Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden. 4 more years would absolutely have left Ukraine further out to dry and would have led to an invasion being less complicated for Russia, especially if more Republicans had gotten into Congress.

I find the idea that he sees Biden as so weak that he could act with impunity to be very unlikely, Putin isn't quite so stupid to believe his own propaganda.

Razor posted...

Someone like Putin doesn't see the world the way a ceman does. He sees Biden falling off his bike and falling down the stairs, he sees weakness. Stuttering all over TV and giving up in the middle of his speeches.

Putin fell down some stairs and promptly shat himself, dude can probably relate.

"I'm not defending Trump" says the guy acting like Trump would be better for Ukraine when
reincarnator07 posted...

The dude literally got impeached because he was trying to threaten Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden

As well as touted Putin's military brilliance in this failed invasion and directly stated he would expect Ukraine to surrender land to their invaders.

And I guess Biden ain't all that weak, plenty strong enough to give Ukraine tools they need to put Putty Tat in his place. But I guess he fell off of a bike so he's a super decrepit old man and on death's door. Ignoring getting right back on said bike.

Razor posted...

It's funny seeing people defend Biden. I'm not here saying Trump was great, but Biden is a mess. And people are telling me I'm drinking Kool aid , that's wild. Guy can't even talk or stop sniffing people.

So tell us again how many airports Washington and his subordinates captured in the Revolution, as Trump claimed?

Also "Putin thinks Biden is weak too" isn't exactly the winning argument they think it is.

Putin also thought this would all be over in a matter of weeks.
And he clearly thought nobody would support Ukraine.
And he thought he could scare off any support with threat of nuclear escalation.

Putty Tats thoughts are not grounded in reality and appealing to them is hysterical.

GranAures posted...

Also "Putin thinks Biden is weak too" isn't exactly the winning argument they think it is.

Putin also thought this would all be over in a matter of weeks.
And he clearly thought nobody would support Ukraine.
And he thought he could scare off any support with threat of nuclear escalation.

Putty Tats thoughts are not grounded in reality and appealing to them is hysterical.

And he can't just withdraw or give up, as that would show himself as weak to his enemies and embolden them. Putin's all-in and all he has a high card......

TyVulpine posted...

Putin's all-in and all he has a high card......

2, 3, 4, 5, 7.
Worst hand

reincarnator07 posted...

I literally provided numbers in my first post, numbers that were not from Wikipedia. This just proves that at no point did you actually check them out. There is no point in seeking out further sources for you if you're just going to intentionally ignore them.

"Look, having nuclear my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart you know, if youre a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world its true! but when you're a conservative Republican they try oh, do they do a number thats why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because were a little disadvantaged but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me it would have been so easy, and its not as important as these lives are nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners now it used to be three, now its four but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they havent figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, its gonna take them about another 150 years but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible." - Donald J Trump

I pine for the days of having actual orators in office, but considering the last Republican that would fit that description was from 30 years ago, I don't exactly hold out hope from them here. Biden is a step down from Obama (and even Hillary) in this regard, but I actually still think he's a better speaker than Trump. When it comes down to actual policy (the thing that matters), I don't think the GOP in general has anything for normal people right now.

A more plausible explanation is that he was banking on Trump winning, who absolutely benefitted Russia while in office. The dude literally got impeached because he was trying to threaten Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden. 4 more years would absolutely have left Ukraine further out to dry and would have led to an invasion being less complicated for Russia, especially if more Republicans had gotten into Congress.

I find the idea that he sees Biden as so weak that he could act with impunity to be very unlikely, Putin isn't quite so stupid to believe his own propaganda.

Ya know what, I fucked up right off the bat when I said "we shouldn't have to carry this shit on our back all the time" and generally made it seem like Europe wasn't doing anything. I was being hyperbolic and I'm just frustrated that we can find unlimited money for wars across the ocean but we can't take care of our own people.

I surely don't support Putin , I just know a lot of this money were sending is gonna end up in some corrupt Ukrainian assholes swiss bank account. Same shit that always happens when we send huge amounts of money with little oversight.

Razor posted...

It's funny seeing people defend Biden. I'm not here saying Trump was great, but Biden is a mess. And people are telling me I'm drinking Kool aid , that's wild. Guy can't even talk or stop sniffing people.

Donald Trump is a rapist with the vocabulary, intelligence, and temperament of a grade schooler. Dude is an almost incoherent mess. He screams in all caps on social media, but milquetoast Sleepy Joe is the embarrassing mess?

hockeybub89 posted...

Donald Trump is a rapist with the vocabulary, intelligence, and temperament of a grade schooler. Dude is an almost incoherent mess. He screams in all caps on social media, but milquetoast Sleepy Joe is the embarrassing mess?

Biden has been accused of rape too, so. They're both pretty fucked up, doesn't take a big man to admit that.

People: The US should be spending that money at home to help people, not on Ukraine.

Same People: This isnt a socialist nation, we need to cut spending and defund everything that helps people.

Razor posted...

Ya know what, I fucked up right off the bat when I said "we shouldn't have to carry this shit on our back all the time" and generally made it seem like Europe wasn't doing anything. I was being hyperbolic and I'm just frustrated that we can find unlimited money for wars across the ocean but we can't take care of our own people.

I agree, although the money sent to Ukraine is minor in the grand scheme of things. This is one of the few conflicts that the USA has involved itself in that's somewhat justifiable. Ultimately, it's not that the USA is unable to help Americans and Ukraine at the same time, it's that the people with the power to make change choose to not help Americans.

I surely don't support Putin , I just know a lot of this money were sending is gonna end up in some corrupt Ukrainian assholes swiss bank account. Same shit that always happens when we send huge amounts of money with little oversight.

The USA has sent relatively little money, like you said earlier a lot of the aid has been materiel rather than cash. Even then, I'm okay with the idea of some corrupt assholes getting rich if the normal people still get the help they need.

reincarnator07 posted...

I agree, although the money sent to Ukraine is minor in the grand scheme of things. This is one of the few conflicts that the USA has involved itself in that's somewhat justifiable. Ultimately, it's not that the USA is unable to help Americans and Ukraine at the same time, it's that the people with the power to make change choose to not help Americans.

The USA has sent relatively little money, like you said earlier a lot of the aid has been materiel rather than cash. Even then, I'm okay with the idea of some corrupt assholes getting rich if the normal people still get the help they need.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/7/4/AAfdHcAAE2OS.jpg
Relatively little? Is that your final answer? Of course you don't give a shit if some corrupt fuck steals money, it's not your billions.

Sounds like you're clutching pearls over a hypothetical.

Razor posted...

Relatively little? Is that your final answer? Of course you don't give a shit if some corrupt fuck steals money, it's not your billions.

The federal government spends billions financing cups for space travel. Billions means absolutely nothing and is relatively little in the grand scheme of our economy.

yes?

what are we sending to Ukraine, like 1 or 2% of our military budget? letting Russia take over the region would cost far more

Ukraine might as well be Afghanistan 2.0

Razor posted...

Biden has been accused of rape too, so. They're both pretty fucked up, doesn't take a big man to admit that.

ROFL, you must be jacked, what with all that digging you have to keep doing.

Razor posted...

I surely don't support Putin , I just know a lot of this money were sending is gonna end up in some corrupt Ukrainian assholes swiss bank account. Same shit that always happens when we send huge amounts of money with little oversight.

This is extremely ignorant. We arent sending money with little oversight. Were sending weapons that Ukraine is using to defend itself from an invasion.

Razor posted...

Yep, Putin would not dare to try this shit when Trump was president. He waited for old, weak, babbling Biden.

Totally delusional. Putin helped get Trump elected in exchange for political favors, such as Trump illegally withholding aid to Ukraine.

Putin used active measures to try and weaken The West. Trump and Brexit being two examples that worked, but he didnt weaken The West enough for Trump to steal a second term. Putin invading Ukraine is an act of desperation not power.

A_Good_Boy posted...

The federal government spends billions financing cups for space travel. Billions means absolutely nothing and is relatively little in the grand scheme of our economy.

My point was we have contributed more than the entire EU combined, in both materiel and humanitarian aid , potentially. I'm getting so many mixed numbers from different sources. One said the entire EU has given almost 8 billion in humanitarian aid, which if that's true, were blowing them out of the water. My initial point was I expect Europe to do more considering we could solve homelessness here for the amount we are giving to save Ukraine refugees etc. Your only argument will be you don't care because the US refuses to spend that kind of money on domestic issues anyways. Partially due to Republicans, which would be not be wrong but is still fucked up.

Heineken14 posted...

ROFL, you must be jacked, what with all that digging you have to keep doing.

You named yourself after the shittiest beer ever, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't even speak to me.

Razor posted...

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/7/4/AAfdHcAAE2OS.jpg
Relatively little? Is that your final answer? Of course you don't give a shit if some corrupt fuck steals money, it's not your billions.

Yes, relatively. I chose my words carefully. That's barely 1/8 of US military spending for this year alone and less than 2% of federal spending. If I were to take your framing that the USA is pulling all the weight, that's a fucking steal to be able to halt the advancement of one of America's primary enemies on the global stage. Add in the fact that a lot of the aid isn't money but military surplus that was likely to gather dust instead, and it becomes even more of a no brainer.

Question: If you could help out 99 people in desperate need, but only if you also gave aid to someone who didn't need it and was just going to fatten his purse, would you still do it? If your answer was no, then your primary goal isn't to help people.

If your concern is that corruption is preventing aid getting to those that need it, I'd suggest focusing on corrupt Americans long before corrupt Ukrainians. They are the reason that your taxes are going to the likes of Amazon or Trump rather than those who need it, not Ukraine. I obviously care about corruption, but when you have limited ability to effect change I'd rather focus on where the most difference can be achieved.

Razor posted...

You named yourself after the shittiest beer ever, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't even speak to me.

And you're saying ridiculous right wing nonsense.

Sounds like some people here need to move to Russia if they love it so much.