Current Events > FF16 is the definition of a 7/10 game. *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I kinda regret buying it tbh. The demo reeled me in with this intimate story about a family being betrayed and killed by the mother. I'm not a complete idiot, I knew it was FF and there'd probably be some big evil monster god in the background, but Anabella dying halfway through and being replaced by King Whocares was a real fucking bummer.

Combat also got pretty repetitive.

And my god, the side quests. There wasn't even a final dungeon, there was just a fucking gauntlet of side quests.

The side auests are the absolute worst ive ever seen in a game. They DO get better as they go on, but they never get good. You can tell this was made by the guy who did FF14, cause that game had the same boring, slow padding that 16. Amazing true story beats, endless filler that equates to people standing around saying this will be a problem if not taken care of.

I felt the combat got better once Bahamit got unlocked. It feels like it is undercooked a bit, but it did get better.

But yeah I agree. This is probably the best average game out there. Not a train wreck like 15, not an insult like 13, just ok. Kind of like 12.

Game has a ton of potential to be the best in the series. The summons are cool. The main story itself is interesting, and the struggle feels real. Amazing music. Spectacular boss battles.

Everything else is mid. (And side quests are trash)

Oh, I forgot to mention that the whole crafting "mechanic" is just baffling to me. The only thing you can craft are weapons and armor. The only weapons and armor are linear upgrades and they're all gated by one or two ingredients that require either a side-quest, a bounty hunt, or a main story quest. At no point was I missing the ingredients to craft something and I'm pretty sure I ended the game with like 1000 of everything.

pegusus123456 posted...

Oh, I forgot to mention that the whole crafting "mechanic" is just baffling to me. The only thing you can craft are weapons and armor. The only weapons and armor are linear upgrades and they're all gated by one or two ingredients that require either a side-quest, a bounty hunt, or a main story quest. At no point was I missing the ingredients to craft something and I'm pretty sure I ended the game with like 1000 of everything.

Wanna bet this will be fixed in a royal edition?

None of the characters were like able except for the dog. Thats what ruined it for me. I had no reason to play after the first couple of hours.

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

None of the characters were like able except for the dog

We have found the worst FF16 opinion yet

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

None of the characters were like able except for the dog. Thats what ruined it for me. I had no reason to play after the first couple of hours.

Hasnt this been a recurring problem since at least 13? No memorable characters anymore.

hockeybub89 posted...

We have found the worst FF16 opinion yet

So I assume that users take is in the minority.

I havent played FF16 so I have to go by what people say.

pegusus123456 posted...

Oh, I forgot to mention that the whole crafting "mechanic" is just baffling to me. The only thing you can craft are weapons and armor. The only weapons and armor are linear upgrades and they're all gated by one or two ingredients that require either a side-quest, a bounty hunt, or a main story quest. At no point was I missing the ingredients to craft something and I'm pretty sure I ended the game with like 1000 of everything.

In New Game+ it makes more sense, but yeah.

Also, overall I did really enjoy it but there's some awful pacing issues that make it feel like a slog. None of the good sidequests start until you're near the end of the game, which by that point you're kind of sick of them being about how fucked up slavery is. Some of the main quests feel like sidequests when you just got back from an hour long kick ass boss fight and then have to talk to three people in the hideout that all say essentially the same thing.

It's got a lot of issues but I did enjoy it. I definitely have similar feelings to FF12 on it as well

So did Yoshi P save the mainline games or whatever people were saying back when this released?

Dark_Arbron posted...

So I assume that users take is in the minority.

I havent played FF16 so I have to go by what people say.

As someone saying FF16 is kinda mid, the characters are actually all very good and well written. With the exception of King Whocares. And the main love interest, but she's not written badly so much as used badly.

Jiek_Fafn posted...

None of the good sidequests start until you're near the end of the game, which by that point you're kind of sick of them being about how fucked up slavery is. Some of the main quests feel like sidequests when you just got back from an hour long kick ass boss fight and then have to talk to three people in the hideout that all say essentially the same thing.

I almost fucking died when after the evil god pulls a giant fucking crystal out of the ground, killing thousands, you had not one but two sidequests about picking fucking flowers.

And the formula of "oh, we need to get to the Mothercrystal but there's a guarded gate in the way we better go through this town and solve their problems first" got very noticeable after the Titan fight.

What annoyed me most about the FF XVI was that the story always threw new political balls at you (not even bad ones), but always dropped the last one at the same time.

It's like you jump from episode to episode, and everytime something or someone new gets introduced, the old thing gets completly ignored and forgotten before it got resolved in any way at all.

No no, you are not supposed to care about Anabella and her Black Shields commiting a genocide in Rosaria anymore, it's now about Kupka.

Wait, no, you are not supposed to care about the orcs and akashic going wild in Dhalmekia, you are now supposed to care about Bahamut and the Twinside.

pegusus123456 posted...

And the formula of "oh, we need to get to the Mothercrystal but there's a guarded gate in the way we better go through this town and solve their problems first" got very noticeable after the Titan fight.

The worst quest in the whole game was still the "Quick, we have to follow Barnabas Ship as fast as possible, but I have no idea how to fix our ship, so please travel half the continent back into camp and solve this riddle left by cid, to give us the deus ex machina plotdevice that we need, and travel half the continent back, so I can just build the ship from some stupid blueprint hidden in a jukebox"

Like, what the fuck, seriously, whoever got that idea should be forced to do this quest 100 times in a row without skipping a single line of dialog.

As for boring characters, i agreed at first, but then i recalled Benedikta, Kupka, Joshua, Dion, Annabella, Ultima, Cid, Charon, etc.

They are all interesting. The main problem? If they are being NPCs in a town, they never shut up about mundane things. If they are in the story, the never do enough.

I feel as if the games main story was plotted out, wasnt long enough, so they padded it with mindless dialogue about whatever.

Characters like Otto look boring, speak slowly, and never get to the point. Seriously, Otto looks like a generic npc, but i was surprised when i didnt know who Otto was until like halfway through the game because it felt like he suddenly just existed. Kind of like that map woman. What was her deal anyway? One day she was just there, and everyone acted like she was always there. Thats how i felt about the whole hideout. After coming back from a cool setpiece or boss, it sucks knowing you have to come back and play tag with Otto and someone on the entire other side of the map.

Karovorak posted...

What annoyed me most about the FF XVI was that the story always threw new political balls at you (not even bad ones), but always dropped the last one at the same time.

It's like you jump from episode to episode, and everytime something or someone new gets introduced, the old thing gets completly ignored and forgotten before it got resolved in any way at all.

No no, you are not supposed to care about Anabella and her Black Shields commiting a genocide in Rosaria anymore, it's now about Kupka.

Wait, no, you are not supposed to care about the orcs and akashic going wild in Dhalmekia, you are now supposed to care about Bahamut and the Twinside.

I mean to be fair about Bahamut, it happened unexpectedly and Joshua was involved so it was important to Clive.

Karovorak posted...

What annoyed me most about the FF XVI was that the story always threw new political balls at you (not even bad ones), but always dropped the last one at the same time.

It's like you jump from episode to episode, and everytime something or someone new gets introduced, the old thing gets completly ignored and forgotten before it got resolved in any way at all.

No no, you are not supposed to care about Anabella and her Black Shields commiting a genocide in Rosaria anymore, it's now about Kupka.

Wait, no, you are not supposed to care about the orcs and akashic going wild in Dhalmekia, you are now supposed to care about Bahamut and the Twinside.

Alternatively you could interpret this as being quite realistic. Nowadays people have short attention spans and the media quite often forgets about a crisis the moment a new one comes along.

Covid-19 made that clear. What was otherwise going on in late 2019 that anyone still remembers? The fires in Australia? Syrian Civil War? All forgotten.

_____Cait posted...

Kind of like that map woman. What was her deal anyway? One day she was just there, and everyone acted like she was always there

They recruit her in the time skip. So she's new for you, but the characters do know her.

I did like the Active Time Lore thing or whatever they called it, but it does perhaps do too much heavy lifting and I think you'd be confused about things like this if you don't read it. Like I don't think the characters actually explain what the Akashic are out loud, so you just have to infer that they're creatures infected with aether if you don't read the entry.

pegusus123456 posted...

As someone saying FF16 is kinda mid, the characters are actually all very good and well written. With the exception of King Whocares. And the main love interest, but she's not written badly so much as used badly.

They fucked up Jill as well.

On face value she's good. But then when you think about her journey she only has one chapter in the entire game where she isn't either kidnapped or resting. She has no agency at all outside of loving Clive and barely gets to do anything.

Then when you put that together with how the two women villains are power hungry in comparison I can't help but wonder if this game is trying to tell me that women are supposed to be submissive, supportive and passive for the leader and warrior men. I don't think that's the intention but it's overall a weird theme the game is leaving us with due to how they fuck up Jill.

pegusus123456 posted...

They recruit her in the time skip. So she's new for you, but the characters do know her.

I did like the Active Time Lore thing or whatever they called it, but it does perhaps do too much heavy lifting and I think you'd be confused about things like this if you don't read it. Like I don't think the characters actually explain what the Akashic are out loud, so you just have to infer that they're creatures infected with aether if you don't read the entry.

I figured she came after the time skip, but like, why did they do that. It makes sense in the real world, but it doesnt feel good knowing suddenly theres a nee character that everyone knows everything about suddenly.

As for the monsters, i remember they explain it in one of the dungeons. I think it is Cid that shares it. It isnt a cutscene though, just travel banter.

Punished_Blinx posted...

They fucked up Jill as well.

On face value she's good. But then when you think about her journey she only has one chapter in the entire game where she isn't either kidnapped or resting. She has no agency at all outside of loving Clive and barely gets to do anything.

Then when you put that together with how the two women villains are power hungry in comparison I can't help but wonder if this game is trying to tell me that women are supposed to be submissive, supportive and passive for the leader and warrior men. I don't think that's the intention but it's overall a weird theme the game is leaving us with due to how they fuck up Jill.

You have Charon but i wouldnt blame you for skipping every bit of dialogue in the hideout.

_____Cait posted...

As for boring characters, i agreed at first, but then i recalled Benedikta, Kupka, Joshua, Dion, Annabella, Ultima, Cid, Charon, etc.

They are all interesting. The main problem? If they are being NPCs in a town, they never shut up about mundane things. If they are in the story, the never do enough.

I feel as if the games main story was plotted out, wasnt long enough, so they padded it with mindless dialogue about whatever.

Characters like Otto look boring, speak slowly, and never get to the point. Seriously, Otto looks like a generic npc, but i was surprised when i didnt know who Otto was until like halfway through the game because it felt like he suddenly just existed. Kind of like that map woman. What was her deal anyway? One day she was just there, and everyone acted like she was always there. Thats how i felt about the whole hideout. After coming back from a cool setpiece or boss, it sucks knowing you have to come back and play tag with Otto and someone on the entire other side of the map.

What's weird about some of the npcs is that some of the ones you can't even click on to speak to have their own little storylines going on that are sometimes interesting. Like there's a soldier and a man whore near The Veil that have a lot of stuff going on and they're fairly memorable.

Then you have Otto who is the office manager of the hideout I think and you're forced to talk to him repeatedly to explain that you need more paper clips, so he sends you to three more interesting characters to sign off on your request.

Punished_Blinx posted...

On face value she's good. But then when you think about her journey she only has one chapter in the entire game where she isn't either kidnapped or resting. She has no agency at all outside of loving Clive and barely gets to do anything.

Yeah, you put it better than I did. She has all the backstory and characterization necessary for her to be a good character, she's just kind of not because they don't bother exploring it.

They give all this attention to the hundred thousand other side characters, but you never even see that woman at Drake's Breath again. Best I can remember, you don't even free her and the others from slavery, the Iron Kingdom just takes them back to the mainland.

Jiek_Fafn posted...

Like there's a soldier and a man whose near The Veil that have a lot of stuff going on and they're fairly memorable.

I was genuinely more invested in those two than I was every other sidequest lol.

I was kind of sad when the last bit of dialogue was just a joke about the soldier not having any money.

Punished_Blinx posted...

They fucked up Jill as well.

On face value she's good. But then when you think about her journey she only has one chapter in the entire game where she isn't either kidnapped or resting. She has no agency at all outside of loving Clive and barely gets to do anything.

Then when you put that together with how the two women villains are power hungry in comparison I can't help but wonder if this game is trying to tell me that women are supposed to be submissive, supportive and passive for the leader and warrior men. I don't think that's the intention but it's overall a weird theme the game is leaving us with due to how they fuck up Jill.

I think Jill gets a bit too much hate in that, but then again the disappointment is understandable.

The frustrating part isn't that she is a bad character, the frustrating part is that her obvious potential is simply not used at all.

About the other women, I don't think that there is that much difference compared to the men.

There is no women on the level of Clive, Joshua or even Dion, but in terms of side NPCs you can definitly compare Mid, Martha, the map woman and the trader woman with Otto and that blacksmith.

Same for the villains.

Sounds like Failed Strong Female Character #6284. Unfortunately common.

Speaking of Martha, I was kind of enjoying that last Eastpool sidequest where she does a rallying speech to bolster everyone into fighting the Akashic.

And then she holds up a frying pan because lolwoman. Really took me out of it. She's exactly the kind of woman that'd grab a sword she doesn't know how to use and start stabbing people.

while we are complaining about useless dialogue and characters, can we complain about receiving special items from NPCs that signify that they trust you? They dont do anything at all, and obviously are just meant to be story milestones, but none of those characters are interesting. I hated that brothel woman. I seriously almost gave up when her first quest appeared.

Although i do like that guy in Lostwing? The dude who eventually gets a sidequest revealing that he was planning to kill a corrupt governor. That was one of the better quest lines.

_____Cait posted...

while we are complaining about useless dialogue and characters, can we complain about receiving special items from NPCs that signify that they trust you? They dont do anything at all, and obviously are just meant to be story milestones, but none of those characters are interesting. I hated that brothel woman. I seriously almost gave up when her first quest appeared.

Although i do like that guy in Lostwing? The dude who eventually gets a sidequest revealing that he was planning to kill a corrupt governor. That was one of the better quest lines.

I regularly confused that guy with Otto until he revealed his plans

Jiek_Fafn posted...

I regularly confused that guy with Otto until he revealed his plans

lol i probably did too. For as important as Otto is said to be, they gave him the most unmemorable dialogue and design of almost any character.

_____Cait posted...

while we are complaining about useless dialogue and characters, can we complain about receiving special items from NPCs that signify that they trust you? They dont do anything at all, and obviously are just meant to be story milestones, but none of those characters are interesting. I hated that brothel woman. I seriously almost gave up when her first quest appeared.

Although i do like that guy in Lostwing? The dude who eventually gets a sidequest revealing that he was planning to kill a corrupt governor. That was one of the better quest lines.

Oh yes, it's so silly.

At the end of the game, you have more pins and sigils than a pokemon trainer.

The worst one was the sigil giving by that woman, only for you to also get a sigil by her brother, getting combined to a new sigil.

I have to say, FF XVI is a very nice game in my eyes, and I enjoyed it a lot, but it's absurd with how much of unneccessary bullshit they game up with. Each one of them would be "fine, whatever", and would never make me think that I would have to "reduce a point" at all, but they pile up a lot.

_____Cait posted...

I hated that brothel woman. I seriously almost gave up when her first quest appeared.

Really? I liked her.

Then again, I didn't really hate any of the characters. Just the sidequests around them.

I gave the game a 7.2, iirc, but yea, I agree.

I think it's a good game, overall, but it's heavily flawed.

I like the main cast of characters, including the villains, and thought that the story was pretty well-written until Kupka died, and that's when the story took a downtown, and a lot of the newer characters it focused on (Barnabas, his weirdo lieutenant, Ultima, etc.) were lame.

and yea, even though some of the side-quests had some story content I liked, like the one where the one dude with that village were all about getting revenge on some dude, most of them felt really superficial and boring.

Karovorak posted...

I think Jill gets a bit too much hate in that, but then again the disappointment is understandable.

The frustrating part isn't that she is a bad character, the frustrating part is that her obvious potential is simply not used at all.

About the other women, I don't think that there is that much difference compared to the men.

There is no women on the level of Clive, Joshua or even Dion, but in terms of side NPCs you can definitly compare Mid, Martha, the map woman and the trader woman with Otto and that blacksmith.

Same for the villains.

Yeah the thing with Jill is that she really needed that big moment that shows her being a badass with her Eikon. It never really happens. She should have been there for the final fight at least. It feels so odd that she stays at home to look at the dog.

It's just an odd dynamic the game is left with. The hero woman Eikon user willingly gives up her power to Clive and never uses it again. The villain Eikon user loses her mind when Clive takes her power. The other female villain is evil because she wants a powerful Eikon son. Meanwhile there are four heroic men Eikon users.

It just leaves the game in a weird place and it was easily fixed if they just gave Jill a bit more attention. I don't think it was on purpose.

Karovorak posted...

Oh yes, it's so silly.

At the end of the game, you have more pins and sigils than a pokemon trainer.

The worst one was the sigil giving by that woman, only for you to also get a sigil by her brother, getting combined to a new sigil.

I have to say, FF XVI is a very nice game in my eyes, and I enjoyed it a lot, but it's absurd with how much of unneccessary bullshit they game up with. Each one of them would be "fine, whatever", and would never make me think that I would have to "reduce a point" at all, but they pile up a lot.

I honestly would have been fine with the main story path, and the major sidequest threads. And the hunts. That stuff was all good. I actually really like the main story. A shorter game would have been nicer, especially given that so many people who grew up with this series are 30-40+ and dont have time like we used to. Id rather a good 25 hour game than sit there wondering why im picking flowers that are right over there.

boxoto posted...

I gave the game a 7.2, iirc, but yea, I agree.

I think it's a good game, overall, but it's heavily flawed.

I like the main cast of characters, including the villains, and thought that the story was pretty well-written until Kupka died, and that's when the story took a downtown, and a lot of the newer characters it focused on (Barnabas, his weirdo lieutenant, Ultima, etc.) were lame.

and yea, even though some of the side-quests had some story content I liked, like the one where the one dude with that village were all about getting revenge on some dude, most of them felt really superficial and boring.

I actually liked when it got weird. Felt more FF and I was down for that. I even liked the political stuff, but i was down for Ultima and friends even more.

I think it's 8.5/10. It's seriously flawed but I thought the highs out weighed the lows for real

Punished_Blinx posted...

Yeah the thing with Jill is that she really needed that big moment that shows her being a badass with her Eikon. It never really happens

Yesssss, very good point. I think her killing her former captor was supposed to be that, but the boss in that area is just a big glob of magic lava and she doesn't actually do anything. Other than that, the only big moment she has is when she fights Odin and that ends with her getting kidnapped.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

I think it's 8.5/10. It's seriously flawed but I thought the highs out weighed the lows for real

I think that last volley of sidequests honestly dropped it a whole point for me. It's just so fucking much and I was expecting at least a bit of a final dungeon, but you just instantly start fighting Ultima. So I spent like six hours doing boring side-quests, then maaaaybe an hour fighting Ultima. So kind of a letdown.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Yeah the thing with Jill is that she really needed that big moment that shows her being a badass with her Eikon. It never really happens. She should have been there for the final fight at least. It feels so odd that she stays at home to look at the dog.

It's just an odd dynamic the game is left with. The hero woman Eikon user willingly gives up her power to Clive and never uses it again. The villain Eikon user loses her mind when Clive takes her power. The other female villain is evil because she wants a powerful Eikon son. Meanwhile there are four heroic men Eikon users.

It just leaves the game in a weird place and it was easily fixed if they just gave Jill a bit more attention. I don't think it was on purpose.

She had her "time to shine" during that vulcano battle, but that was probably the most forgettable arc and battle in the whole game.

Just some no-name cultists who actually got a name no one cared about.

FF16 as a whole I would say is above average. There are parts of it that are absolutely not great, like the odd pacing, the fucking purple dim sky for literally half the game and etc.

However the story telling I thought was great, the characters, the acting, the boss battles? All set new bars for me for gaming. It's not my favorite FF game, but it's a damn good one IMO.

Ah yes, the Iron Something-or-Other. A culture that, like every other in the Twins, needs Bearers, but they also VERY openly hate Bearers and sacrifice them.

Do we get an opportunity to see how their society even sustains itself? Nope, no look at their city or anything like that, just straight to the volcano where we blow it up.

And then they're not even mentioned for the rest of the game apart from one Notorious Mark based on the tradition of the Magus Sisters.

Yeah, for all the complaining ive done, i do enjoy a lot of it. Boss battles, main story, music, all good stuff.

Wondering how much will be fixed in a complete edition

The boss fights are mostly good, but they were kinda downhill after Titan IMO. Bahamut played so much keepaway that I found it kind of annoying. Which makes sense because I fucking loathed the dragoon fights because they also teleport spammed.

After him, I think the cinematic moments started undercutting the boss fights. Maybe it was just that I had better abilities (Gigaflare+Lightning Rod OP), but I felt like the game wasn't letting each phase really breathe before it dumped me into the next one.

CyricZ posted...

Ah yes, the Iron Something-or-Other. A culture that, like every other in the Twins, needs Bearers, but they also VERY openly hate Bearers and sacrifice them.

Do we get an opportunity to see how their society even sustains itself? Nope, no look at their city or anything like that, just straight to the volcano where we blow it up.

And then they're not even mentioned for the rest of the game apart from one Notorious Mark based on the tradition of the Magus Sisters.

Iron Bloods? They get talked a lot in the beginning of the story. Iirc they are referred to as savages and nobody really respects them?

Error1355 posted...

FF16 as a whole I would say is above average. There are parts of it that are absolutely not great, like the odd pacing, the fucking purple dim sky for literally half the game and etc.

However the story telling I thought was great, the characters, the acting, the boss battles? All set new bars for me for gaming. It's not my favorite FF game, but it's a damn good one IMO.

Oh yes .

I would give FF XVI at least an 8.

I feel in love with how cinematic every single fight was. I just wish I could put a third skill on the X button, even it was reserved for the eikon ultimate only.

_____Cait posted...

Yeah, for all the complaining ive done, i do enjoy a lot of it. Boss battles, main story, music, all good stuff.

Wondering how much will be fixed in a complete edition

It is complete.

I don't need a third skill, just give me a fucking sprint key.

I really dont understand the sidequest hate. Almost every quest (especially by endgame) gives you some interesting lore or dialogue that fleshes out the world and characters youre helping.

Are they the best side quests in gaming? Definitely not. But to say theyre the worst in all of gaming is a bad take. A lot of games have side quests that offer nothing interesting about the world and just exist to give you items. Hell these quests are way better than tears of the kingdoms quests and i dont see anyone shitting on those

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I really dont understand the sidequest hate. Almost every quest (especially by endgame) gives you some interesting lore or dialogue that fleshes out the world and characters youre helping.

Are they the best side quests in gaming? Definitely not. But to say theyre the worst in all of gaming is a bad take. A lot of games have side quests that offer nothing interesting about the world and just exist to give you items. Hell these quests are way better than tears of the kingdoms quests and i dont see anyone shitting on those

picking flowers or playing message tag just to earn a gil bug isnt fun. Yeah there are a few good payoffs, but they are few

The issue with the side quests is that while the lore is kind of interesting, the actual gameplay is just fucking trash. This is an issue through the game as a whole, the boss fights are kind of the only great combat the game has. Fodder enemies may as well not exist. But it's particularly bad in the side quests because you rarely-to-never get anything but fodder enemies.

And as someone ITT mentioned, it also completely shits the bed on the pacing. I should not be doing eight random side quests when the main story mission is that three of your friends are trapped in a city being besieged by monsters. I should not be collecting ingredients for a new, experimental recipe when my girlfriend is currently being trafficked away by the enemy. I should not be collecting a chocobo feather for a good luck charm when literal, actual facts God is about to end the world.

_____Cait posted...

Iron Bloods? They get talked a lot in the beginning of the story. Iirc they are referred to as savages and nobody really respects them?

Are you telling me or are you asking me? Because there are a lot of question marks in your reply. :-P

But in essence, that's kind of my point. For a game that had a lot to say about nations and their governments and their economies and their political struggles, they kinda got halfway through before giving up.