Current Events > American Christians have fallen in love with fascism.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Good to know that just because I label myself a Christian I'm immediately a horrible human being to some people. Whatever.

codey posted...

Buddy I'm an atheist who left the Christian church because I hated it

That doesn't change the fact that you're declaring all Christians to be evangelicals when evangelicals are just a single subset amongst dozens of denominations.

And many of those denominations are enabling them to do it, and it makes them every bit as guilty. Sit down. You're accusing me of prejudice for telling the truth. Not only is there a religious right, but there has been for many decades now. Has been since the 1820's at least and probably much longer than that (the Pilgrims were just fundies kicked out Britain so Britain could finally get its Renaissance).

The Scopes Monkey trial, burnings at the stake, the witch trials, the mass murder of native Americans. Hell, the entire Southern Baptist Convention was founded to protect slavery during the Civil War. Christianity in this country has a lot to answer for. And I will NOT pretend otherwise.

If only the normal Christians got as upset over their comrades' blatant facism and utter denial of Christ as they do getting reminded that they share a religion.

DrizztLink posted...

If only the normal Christians got as upset over their comrades' blatant racism and utter denial of Christ as they do getting reminded that they share a religion.

I do, though. I frequently post about my distaste of those kinds here.

codey posted...

That doesn't change the fact that you're declaring all Christians to be evangelicals when evangelicals are just a single subset amongst dozens of denominations.

That's like comparing different textures of shit which all comes out the same animal.

TripleDouble posted...

Isn't it safe to say that both sides are equally fascist at this point?

What groups are the left targeting legislation against, wholesale demonizing as pedophiles and groomers, doing everything in their power to deny healthcare for, actively running on the platform of punishing those groups for existing, what bills from the left are being pushed to erase history of minority groups, when was the last attempted violent overthrow of an election from the left?

I could go on.

Or is this "I'm not allowed to be a bigot so the left are equally fascist?"

codey posted...

The problem you're not seeing is that evangelicals are a subset of a massive group. They literally aren't even half of all Christians.

You dont see many of the other Christian speaking out against them

Dragon56 posted...

Gross generalizations are disgusting.

Got some Fox News links to support that?

ChainsawFerret posted...

And many of those denominations are enabling them to do it, and it makes them every bit as guilty. Sit down. You're accusing me of prejudice for telling the truth. Not only is there a religious right, but there has been for many decades now. Has been since the 1820's at least and probably much longer than that (the Pilgrims were just fundies kicked out Britain so Britain could finally get its Renaissance).

The Scopes Monkey trial, burnings at the stake, the witch trials, the mass murder of native Americans. Hell, the entire Southern Baptist Convention was founded to protect slavery during the Civil War. Christianity in this country has a lot to answer for. And I will NOT pretend otherwise.

Yeah there's a religious right and there's a religious left too. Christianity has a lot to answer for, yeah, but you're completely ignoring huge swaths of the religion and equating them all to fundamentalists and evangelicals when the vast majority of Christians are "casual" Christians at best.

codey posted...

Yeah there's a religious right and there's a religious left too. Christianity has a lot to answer for, yeah, but you're completely ignoring huge swaths of the religion and equating them all to fundamentalists and evangelicals when the vast majority of Christians are "casual" Christians at best.

And when they see what the fundies and evangelicals are up to, they sure get quiet really quick. Almost like "Out of sight, out of mind?" or "If I don't see it, it doesn't matter?"

codey posted...

Yeah there's a religious right and there's a religious left too. Christianity has a lot to answer for, yeah, but you're completely ignoring huge swaths of the religion and equating them all to fundamentalists and evangelicals when the vast majority of Christians are "casual" Christians at best.

Yes.

For example, ignoring the huge influence of black Christians and Muslims in the civil rights movement is downright disingenuous.

Full_Pokedex posted...

You shouldn't be on this board and expect nuance, that's something that isn't allowed here.

You either have the same opinion as everyone else or you leave, one way or another.

You hang out with white supremacists

Its ironic that people are conflating not speaking out against a group with supporting that group. Sometimes you have to keep quiet. That doesnt at all mean you agree with or support the people you arent standing up to. It could mean you realize youre outnumbered and you dont want to get harassed, bullied, or even hurt by the group in question. It could mean you arent interested in engaging with that group in the first place, or at that particular moment or situation. Maybe it means you arent really interested or informed enough about the topic to discuss it properly. Of course it could mean that you are ok or even agree with what that group is saying. But you always assume the worst and that is why people dont want to talk to you about these important issues!

You arent more more caring, more intelligent, or better than anyone else because you wear your beliefs on your sleeve at all times.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Its ironic that people are conflating not speaking out against a group with supporting that group. Sometimes you have to keep quiet. That doesnt at all mean you agree with or support the people you arent standing up to. It could mean you realize youre outnumbered and you dont want to get harassed, bullied, or even hurt by the group in question. It could mean you arent interested in engaging with that group in the first place, or at that particular moment or situation. Maybe it means you arent really interested or informed enough about the topic to discuss it properly. Of course it could mean that you are ok or even agree with what that group is saying. But you always assume the worst and that is why people dont want to talk to you about these important issues!

You arent more more caring, more intelligent, or better than anyone else because you wear your beliefs on your sleeve at all times.

People are as good as the people they choose to associate with

Full_Pokedex posted...

You shouldn't be on this board and expect nuance, that's something that isn't allowed here.

You either have the same opinion as everyone else or you leave, one way or another.

You're already back from purg?

hockeybub89 posted...

You hang out with white supremacists

And again, maybe he should tolerate the intolerance he so hates.

It's what he expects of others when they speak against repeated anti-lgtbq rhetoric and say "mean things" about the people that peddle that rhetoric.

Full_Pokedex posted...

You shouldn't be on this board and expect nuance, that's something that isn't allowed here.

You either have the same opinion as everyone else or you leave, one way or another.

The only people that say CE is a hive mind with samey opinions are people that have absurd, terrible opinions.

You'll find that comes up a lot.

hockeybub89 posted...

People are as good as the people they choose to associate with

People dont always get to choose who they associate with.

People are individuals with their own consciousnesses. If it was your job to send someone to heaven or hell after they died, you would look at their thoughts/beliefs and actions as well as their life circumstances. All of those things (and more) are important.

This world would be perfect if we had no religion.

The church constantly pushes reasonable people away from them with their deranged views.

The "good" ones are complicit from their silence. That makes me not want to associate with them as the morally correct choice. Call out the bad ones or the grifters, or I can assume that you're in the same boat.

Edit: This unreasonableness also aims to tarnish the religion in itself. Why be part of a religion that appears to be a net negative on society and is a source of suffering?

Damn_Underscore posted...

People dont always get to choose who they associate with.

People are individuals with their own consciousnesses. If it was your job to send someone to heaven or hell after they died, you would look at their thoughts/beliefs and actions as well as their life circumstances. All of those things (and more) are important.

Apathy never helps the oppressed, only the oppressors.

Frosted_Midna posted...

This world would be perfect if we had no religion.

Pure naivety, if you got rid of religion, people will find something else to slaughter each other over.

Maybe your eyes arent the right shade or your accent isnt quite right.

DrizztLink posted...

Apathy never helps the oppressed, only the oppressors.

What is your point? I implied before that Im not going to engage with people who arent respectful (let alone people who are outright hostile) about serious and important issues. That doesnt mean I am apathetic about those issues. Besides, for various reasons there is nothing inherently wrong with feeling apathetic about something.

DrizztLink posted...

Apathy never helps the oppressed, only the oppressors.

I agree. Apathy is the enemy of progress and those who easily give in to it will never find happiness and fulfillment.

Sure. But there's kind of context, you know, that thing you're trying to preach about.

Being apathetic about chocolate ice cream isn't hurting anybody. It's when that apathy also involves "I'm apathetic about you having rights." Pretty sure you wouldn't be happy if you got that response from somebody, just a good old "eh, you having rights doesn't effect me so I really don't care."

Damn_Underscore posted...

People dont always get to choose who they associate with.

People are individuals with their own consciousnesses. If it was your job to send someone to heaven or hell after they died, you would look at their thoughts/beliefs and actions as well as their life circumstances. All of those things (and more) are important.

Yeah, people are individuals. And who they CHOOSE to associate themselves with gives some insight to who they are.

I'm not saying that trans kids growing up in an abusive Christian family are as bad as their parents. Or that you have to quit your job if one guy is an asshole.

Frosted_Midna posted...

This world would be perfect if we had no religion.

Nah, there will still be awful people and suffering you can't do anything about.

More accurately, there would be a lot less suffering and injustice if there were no more religion.

Torgo posted...

Nah, there will still be awful people and suffering you can't do anything about.

More accurately, there would be a lot less suffering and injustice if there were no more religion.

You would at least have a lot more honesty of "I just hate ______" instead of "it's my religion and you have to accept my religion right to hate _______"

At least without religion people wouldn't feel more right to oppress people because "God is on their side".

Frosted_Midna posted...

This world would be perfect if we had no religion.

Ummm...Humans would still exist so this is pure horseshit.

GranAures posted...

You would at least have a lot more honesty of "I just hate ______" instead of "it's my religion and you have to accept my religion right to hate _______"

I agree with you that a lot of people use religion to justify doing bad things. Even if its not a bad thing necessarily, they will erroneously use their religion to justify it.

Without religion this will not stop, those people will just find a different justification.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Without religion this will not stop, those people will just find a different justification.

Maybe, but it's much easier to cast them out of society without the shield of religion.

Sandalorn posted...

Ummm...Humans would still exist so this is pure horseshit.

Anyone who says crap like this should be ignored and looked down upon. The world would be a far worse place without people in it.

Full_Pokedex posted...

Anyone who says crap like this should be ignored and looked down upon. The world would be a far worse place without people in it.

Worse for people, sure. Definitely not worse for Earth.

the truth is that multiple studies have shown atheists are less charitable than religious people so the idea that the the world would be a better place without religion is probably wrong.

Anyone who says crap like this should be ignored and looked down upon.

But I thought generalizations were bad? Kind of lacking the grey you pine so hard for.

Or is it okay when you do it?

hockeybub89 posted...

Worse for people, sure. Definitely not worse for Earth.

People wouldn't be around to know if it was worse.

There are two kinds of American Christians; liberal and conservative. Conservative Christians, sadly, are the ones with all the money and influence, and thus became the poster boys of Christianity, no matter how much they twist the teachings.

Dragon56 posted...

the truth is that multiple studies have shown atheists are less charitable than religious people so the idea that the the world would be a better place without religion is probably wrong.

Is charity the only or best way to help the downtrodden?

Intro2Logic posted...

Is charity the only or best way to help the downtrodden?

Also sounds like a generalization.

GranAures posted...

If I had a nickel for every self-proclaimed Christian who voted for a compulsive liar, adulterer, racist, insurrectionist and would do so again...

I'd be very rich.
Which is not surprising.
In contrary to the "I'd have two nickels but it's kind of surprising that it happened twice" notion.

They would vote for Satan himself if he opposed abortion.

Full_Pokedex posted...

Anyone who says crap like this should be ignored and looked down upon. The world would be a far worse place without people in it.

Well, we all know you have vast experience in getting looked down upon. Kinda because no one likes you.

GranAures posted...

People wouldn't be around to know if it was worse.

Well we know for sure the sloths aren't going to suddenly start fracking or dumping forever chemicals into the water.

Religious or not.
Humans hold the desire to conquer.
As is true for every footstep humans had on this world since the inception of mankind.

Intro2Logic posted...

Is charity the only or best way to help the downtrodden?

It's a convenient way for religious nuts to further control the masses.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Its ironic that people are conflating not speaking out against a group with supporting that group. Sometimes you have to keep quiet. That doesnt at all mean you agree with or support the people you arent standing up to. It could mean you realize youre outnumbered and you dont want to get harassed, bullied, or even hurt by the group in question. It could mean you arent interested in engaging with that group in the first place, or at that particular moment or situation. Maybe it means you arent really interested or informed enough about the topic to discuss it properly. Of course it could mean that you are ok or even agree with what that group is saying. But you always assume the worst and that is why people dont want to talk to you about these important issues!

You arent more more caring, more intelligent, or better than anyone else because you wear your beliefs on your sleeve at all times.

Silence benefits the oppressor.

Humble_Novice posted...

It's a convenient way for religious nuts to further control the masses.

Yep, they advocate against helpful government programs because those don't require you to submit to anyone's faith. Charity can be really, really disgusting.