Current Events > I really don't see why determinism would preclude free will.

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, every event is caused by previous events according to determinism. Which means an outside observer to the universe could, just with perfect knowledge of the conditions of the big bang, map out every subsequent event in the future, including the decisions of all humans, because humans are made of material and brains function through chemical reactions and physical processes.

Okay, cool, but it doesn't follow that humans' choices are not free or their own. If anything, free will needs determinism as a pre-requisite.

For a decision to be your own, you must be able to reason and conclude. Any decision we make is come to by our observations of our present environment, our memory of past events, and our goals.

If the world is non-deterministic, then
1) We cannot reason out our actions because our memories and sensory information do not tell us about the possible consequences of our actions.
2) Our actions may not be determined by "us" at all because our senses, memory and goals cannot be said to necessarily influence our choices.

If an outside observer can know what you're going to do in 30 minutes, it would still have no bearing on the choice you make in 30 minutes being your own. On the other hand, if an outside observer can never know what you'll do in 30 minutes, that must certainly be more distressing, as it indicates your actions are arbitrary and without relation to your own character and ego.

The world is obviously nondeterministic by your own definition and the result of this post

Also, you are ignoring determination for itself. The world can be deterministic sometimes and nondeterministic at other times.

tl;dr: a kid will eat a cookie I leave out, even with me knowing that doesn't take away from the choice

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Also, you are ignoring determination for itself. The world can be deterministic sometimes and nondeterministic at other times.

I'm not making an argument of whether the world is or is not deterministic. I'm asserting that: If the world is at all times deterministic, that fact does not rule out free will.

Doe posted...

I'm not making an argument of whether the world is or is not deterministic. I'm asserting that: If the world is at all times deterministic, that fact does not rule out free will.

Can you explain how the world could fail to be non-deterministic? Imagine a crisis period in science