Current Events > Genuine question: Why do people argue about ''two genders'' and not two sexes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The whole "I believe in science" argument that it's only male or female and going by chromosomes someone is born with etc. Wouldn't that be your sex and not your gender or am I misunderstanding what falls under what? Isn't gender closer to sexual orientation or what you identify as? I always got people saying that gender's a social construct and there's a spectrum cause I mean...there clearly is.

So if my original understanding of sex vs. gender is right, are the people arguing that there are only two genders misusing the words intentionally in an attempt to discredit the trans or LGBT+ community, or are they just straight up ignorant of the difference? Or are the terms interchangeable to them and I'm splitting hairs?

This all stems from talking to older people. I'm just trying to get a better grasp on this subject for when it comes up with someone who is asking me about it like I know more than I do. It happens more often than I'd like and I always try my best to explain it while also letting them know I'm certainly no expert and they should seek out information from someone that's actually in the LGBT+ community who would know more, but I'm pretty certain that has happened zero times. So I feel like I should already know this stuff better since I've always been pro-trans rights, but fuck it. I'd rather expose my ignorance and get a direct answer.

Typical way to address it is sex is physical, gender is mental/self.

they want to muddy the waters, since by acknowledging that sex and gender aren't the exact same thing, they allow for a line of reasoning that validates trans people.

and they don't want that.

At least some of them are intentionally trying to conflate the two, and some people have fallen for this.

But yeah, if people are already part of the discussion and misusing it, I'd bet on "yes they're doing it intentionally" every time.

boxoto posted...

they want to muddy the waters, since by acknowledging that sex and gender aren't the exact same thing, they allow for a line of reasoning that validates trans people.

and they don't want that.

It's simply this.

boxoto posted...

they want to muddy the waters, since by acknowledging that sex and gender aren't the exact same thing, they allow for a line of reasoning that validates trans people.

and they don't want that.

Alright so it is just blatantly intentional assholery? And I just missed the boat when this was being established as a shitty tactic?

How come you never see anyone calling them out or correcting them on it? I'm sure it's happened, but why not make it the immediate go to argument? You see someone "debate" that there are more than two genders without directly breaking down why that's a stupid statement to begin with.

I don't think it'd get anywhere with them, meaning the person arguing there are only two genders because it's pretty much always someone who doesn't support trans or gender fluid people to begin with, but it might clear things up for anyone watching/listening. If it's intentionally constructed as a shitty "gotcha" argument why bother playing into it?

Or they're not even aware of the difference between gender and sex. That's why you'll still find people who are clearly talking about biological factors when gender isn't decided by biological things necessarily. Sure sets a baseline for where one's self identity could go, but it's very different

Alright thanks for answering me.

I'm relieved I wasn't wrong or misunderstanding anything all this time. I just got done talking to someone from work who I don't think has anything against trans people at all, but they claimed "Well there are only two genders. Whatever you want to do afterwards is up to you." I tried explaining that they were talking about sex instead of gender, but they just sort of shut down. Left a bad taste in my mouth and got me questioning the whole "argument".

GameGodOfAll posted...

Alright so it is just blatantly intentional assholery? And I just missed the boat when this was being established as a shitty tactic?

How come you never see anyone calling them out or correcting them on it? I'm sure it's happened, but why not make it the immediate go to argument? You see someone "debate" that there are more than two genders without directly breaking down why that's a stupid statement to begin with.

I don't think it'd get anywhere with them, meaning the person arguing there are only two genders because it's pretty much always someone who doesn't support trans or gender fluid people to begin with, but it might clear things up for anyone watching/listening. If it's intentionally constructed as a shitty "gotcha" argument why bother playing into it?

Yes. For a long time there were a lot of stupid people that really didn't understand, and maybe there still are some, but most know. They're just shitty people, and know they can waste your time explaining it. They'll pick out some point you made and make another ignorant comment about it, so you'll cycle through an explanation they don't actually care about again. Feigning ignorance to keep the conversation fixed on trying to enlighten, instead of actually working to make things better.

I can buy that there are people ignorant to the issue out there, but most everyone I know has made a decision one way or another.

Yeah just explain to them that gender was something decided by society, and sex is something you get from birth. They're talking about biological sex, not gender. You have to make them understand that the whole gender related movement isn't seeking to deny sex from birth. They probably fully accept their sex, generally anyways.

people love more sexes

;)

At any rate, it's not a worthwhile argument to have. It's framing the social issue as "people that think there are two genders and people that think there are a bunch are disagreeing." When the actual issue is "people want to prevent and punish others from discovering and expressing their gender identity, and other people want to protect the freedom to do that." It doesn't matter "how many genders there are" when discussing these issues.

generally I find it comes down to "I don't believe there is gender separate from sex". and If you can't agree on the fundamental premise, you can't win an argument with those types