Current Events > a reminder that beerus in dragon ball super is evil (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

DarkBuster22904 posted...

So you're saying if there was an unbridgeable language barrier, he would become justified?

Acemos logic

AceMos posted...

why do they need to do this at all is the thing

the idea that destruction is needed for creation is nonsense

Do wild fires in nature not count?

DepreceV2 posted...

Do wild fires in nature not count?

Sometimes feelings trump real facts.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

So you're saying if there was an unbridgeable language barrier, he would become justified?

not what i said at all and you know i expect better from a moderator

As completely not a fan as i am about Dragon Ball stuff: Im lost when they introduced Beerus and angels.

Ok theyre the strongest. Fuck goku and the main cast. Destruction Gods and Angels are the strongest so who cares about stupid sayians etc..?

Lairen posted...

As completely not a fan as i am about Dragon Ball stuff: Im lost when they introduced Beerus and angels.

Ok theyre the strongest. Fuck goku and the main cast. Destruction Gods and Angels are the strongest so who cares about stupid sayians etc..?

The writing in DragonBall is about as deep as a kitty pool.

Lairen posted...

As completely not a fan as i am about Dragon Ball stuff: Im lost when they introduced Beerus and angels.

Ok theyre the strongest. Fuck goku and the main cast. Destruction Gods and Angels are the strongest so who cares about stupid sayians etc..?

They are an obstacle for them to overcome. Well more like a mountain that needs to be climbed.

Lairen posted...

Ok theyre the strongest. Fuck goku and the main cast. Destruction Gods and Angels are the strongest so who cares about stupid sayians etc..?

Because the morality and motives of the GoDs and Angels leaves them out of most direct conflicts. We know Beerus isn't going to die, but he's also most likely not going to give much of a shit about any petty squabbles between lesser beings.

DepreceV2 posted...

They are an obstacle for them to overcome. Well more like a mountain that needs to be climbed.

They show angels at an insane god op level. Like Goku at his most op cant touch an angel. I mean he physically cannot touch an angel in his strongest form.

And also said angels can like knock out destruction gods. Angels are so op that its like fuck everything else who cares.

Lets get UI/UE Vegito to literally lay a finger on an angel and act like its a big deal....he probably still cant lay a finger on them.....

AceMos posted...

not what i said at all and you know i expect better from a moderator

It's exactly what you said. You can't communicate with a cockroach, and his ability to communicate is the prime factor thar makes him "the same" as mortals.

The dude is 75 million years old and has watched thousands of species rise, fall, come, and go across hundreds of worlds, if not more. There comes a point where you've seen this shit happen so much, on such a huge scale, that life stops being this special thing that must be preserved at all costs, and just becomes a regular-ass phenomenon, like a geyser or a thunderstorm. The morality and preciousness of life is a very human perspective, one that philosophers have near universally agreed is owed to our short lifespans, desires to preserve our societies, and our own fear of "after the end."

To say that a near-immortal being who interacts with reality on a universal scale would be bound to those same rules is absurd, because its absurd to think that they perceive the universe in the same way; we can't possibly imagine living for 75 million years and being tasked with the overall "health" of the entire universe.

We dont even follow the moral rule youre suggesting, ourselves. Life os not equally presious to us, no matter where it comes from; we draw lines arbitrarily, usually catered to our own needs, without having the slightest clue of what factually constitutes sentience or a lack thereof. This whole argument is just gettijg mad that a destroyer god does the same thing to us that we do to damn near everything else that isnt human. And him liking ramen and ice cream a lot doesn't change that.

asdf8562 posted...

The writing in DragonBall is about as deep as a kitty pool.

Correct and the amount of people who takes it so fucking serious to the point of dissecting and analyzing the shit is beyond crazy.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

It's exactly what you said. You can't communicate with a cockroach, and his ability to communicate is the prime factor thar makes him "the same" as mortals.

The dude is 75 million years old and has watched thousands of species rise, fall, come, and go across hundreds of worlds, if not more. There comes a point where you've seen this shit happen so much, on such a huge scale, that life stops being this special thing that must be preserved at all costs, and just becomes a regular-ass phenomenon, like a geyser or a thunderstorm. The morality and preciousness of life is a very human perspective, one that philosophers have near universally agreed is owed to our short lifespans, desires to preserve our societies, and our own fear of "after the end."

To say that a near-immortal being who interacts with reality on a universal scale would be bound to those same rules is absurd, because its absurd to think that they perceive the universe in the same way; we can't possibly imagine living for 75 million years and being tasked with the overall "health" of the entire universe. And him liking ramen and ice cream a lot doesn't change that.

Rip tc lol

DarkBuster22904 posted...

It's exactly what you said. You can't communicate with a cockroach, and his ability to communicate is the prime factor thar makes him "the same" as mortals.

humans are not like cockroaches is the problem your argument hinges on cockroaches being capable of complex thought

i question if you even know anything about beerus as the rest of you rpost sounds like you dont

he does not have some divine perception of the universe or anything

the onlything different about him and a mortal is his power level thats it

he has no cosmic awareness or any of your other arguments

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



ehh no. The reason why it worked for Vegeta is because there was a complex redemption arc for him. People didnt trust him until three arcs in. Even then some people dont trust him.

Even in Super Manga. There are still arcs about the actions that Vegeta did in Namek and as a Sayian.

beyond having a larger power level what is different about beerus destroying a planet or frieza destroying a planet

One is doing the necessary task given to him by higher beings, while the other is a power-hungry sadist who enjoys killing/sufffering for the sake of it? In the time frame of Frieza's existence, it's pretty likely he's destroyed more planets inhabited by sapient life than Beerus.

The_Korey posted...

One is doing the necessary task

prove it is necessary

nothing we have been shown has made destroying planets full of sentient life necessary

Universes in Dragon Ball are not infinite. You kan literally touch the wall/ceilings of space. Kais and natural circumstances keep kreating.

Basically, because anime.

The_Korey posted...

You kan literally touch the wall/ceilings of space.

errr what are you thinking of the other world tournament arc which is none canon?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

It's exactly what you said. You can't communicate with a cockroach, and his ability to communicate is the prime factor thar makes him "the same" as mortals.

The dude is 75 million years old and has watched thousands of species rise, fall, come, and go across hundreds of worlds, if not more. There comes a point where you've seen this shit happen so much, on such a huge scale, that life stops being this special thing that must be preserved at all costs, and just becomes a regular-ass phenomenon, like a geyser or a thunderstorm. The morality and preciousness of life is a very human perspective, one that philosophers have near universally agreed is owed to our short lifespans, desires to preserve our societies, and our own fear of "after the end."

To say that a near-immortal being who interacts with reality on a universal scale would be bound to those same rules is absurd, because its absurd to think that they perceive the universe in the same way; we can't possibly imagine living for 75 million years and being tasked with the overall "health" of the entire universe.

We dont even follow the moral rule youre suggesting, ourselves. Life os not equally presious to us, no matter where it comes from; we draw lines arbitrarily, usually catered to our own needs, without having the slightest clue of what factually constitutes sentience or a lack thereof. This whole argument is just gettijg mad that a destroyer god does the same thing to us that we do to damn near everything else that isnt human. And him liking ramen and ice cream a lot doesn't change that.

flawless victory

There is the concern that he doesn't seem to have any higher wisdom and is blowing up planets arbitrarily, and that his personality is that of a grouchy teenager.

Actually, I was thinking of the race and tournament on Grand Kai's planet. Though looking back, I think I had the details wrong about both of those moments being the edge of space itself. Still, the map for the universe is a literal ball.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/9/AAPDLMAAEt3X.jpg

The_Korey posted...

Actually, I was thinking of the race and tournament on Grand Kai's planet. Though looking back, I think I had the details wrong about both of those moments being the edge of space itself. Still, the map for the universe is a literal ball.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/9/AAPDLMAAEt3X.jpg

and yet we have seen the edge of the universe in the moro arc and no signs of a wall like in DC comics with the source wall

face it gods of destruction do not do anything of benefit they just destroy planets based on arbitrary things like mortal level

which we are given no details of

like all gods in dragon ball there is nothing special about the gods fo destruction

its all just based on power level BS they have a high power level so they get to decide things

andel posted...

flawless victory

https://youtu.be/dNQs_Bef_V8

I mean isn't that a vast majority of DBZ characters? I think Goku and Gohan are the only two with planet-wiping abilities who wouldn't do it if someone pi**** them off.

SuperSaiyanTien posted...

I mean isn't that a vast majority of DBZ characters? I think Goku and Gohan are the only two with planet-wiping abilities who wouldn't do it if someone pi**** them off.

modern goku would blow up a planet full of innocent ppl if he was promised a good fight afterwards

modern vegeta actually would be against destroying a planet

AceMos posted...

modern goku would blow up a planet full of innocent ppl if he was promised a good fight afterwards

modern vegeta actually would be against destroying a planet

https://youtu.be/T88RNJdZCLo

bump

AceMos posted...

bump

Ok, you gained nothing for a bump because you have no understanding of character development

AceMos posted...

and yet we have seen the edge of the universe in the moro arc and no signs of a wall like in DC comics with the source wall

You don't "see" the wall in the bits I was on about either. It's like you're still looking into the infinite vastness of space, but it's a solid surface to get stepped on or smacked into

face it gods of destruction do not do anything of benefit they just destroy planets based on arbitrary things like mortal level

which we are given no details of

like all gods in dragon ball there is nothing special about the gods fo destruction

its all just based on power level BS they have a high power level so they get to decide things

So we should just ignore all spoken dialogue if they don't go out of their way to prove it, but I should take your word for it because... ?

Why would Beerus lie about his role anyway? The dude barely gives a damn about morality, is neigh unstopable, and would rather be seen as a kruel selfish dictator than show too much kompassion/weakness. It would make no sense for his character to even sugar-koat his role to anyone beneath him.

we are never shown any benefit to GoDs

and its a running gag across dragon ball that gods are useless

again its based entirely on power level GoDs are allowed to commit genocide entirely because of their power

they do not have some divine knowledge or the like they are legit just regular mortals who where given a position and then allowed to do wtv they want

hell beerus is proven wrong several times like when he claimed killing zamasu would wpie zamasu out in every timeline but it did not do that at all

the blanket statement of X is a god so they are allowed to do wtv they want is utter bull crap

how many times in human history have ppl claimed god gave them the right to do evil

beerus kills people based on food

zenoh kills ppl based on being bored

those are acts of evil god or no god they are just as fallible as any one else and thus just as capable of becoming evil

AceMos posted...

we are never shown any benefit to GoDs

again its based entirely on power level GoDs are allowed to commit genocide entirely because of their power

they do not have some divine knowledge or the like they are legit just regular mortals who where given a position and then allowed to do wtv they want

Your words.

and its a running gag across dragon ball that gods are useless

Pretty sure alternate timeline Zenny saved everyone's ass from the Zama/Black incident, so taking recurrung gags as an absolute statement sounds really silly.

hell beerus is proven wrong several times like when he claimed killing zamasu would wpie zamasu out in every timeline but it did not do that at all

Being wrong in your arrogant assumption is not the same as lying. And even then, Beerus is often wrong from underestimating mortals, kais, and others he sees as beneath him. Why would he be wrong about what he himself does for a living and the reasoning behind it?

the blanket statement of X is a god so they are allowed to do wtv they want is utter bull crap

That was a different guy. I have no horse in that race. Don't @ me.

how many times in human history have ppl claimed god gave them the right to do evil

Alt right Toriyama?

beerus kills people based on food
those are acts of evil god or no god they are just as fallible as any one else and thus just as capable of becoming evil

Beerus erases because the universe is not infinite. How he chooses is based on his own selfishness, but selfishness and evil are not the same thing.

The_Korey posted...

Pretty sure alternate timeline Zenny saved everyone's ass from the Zama/Black incident, so taking recurrung gags as an absolute statement sounds really silly.

uh no he killed countless trillions of ppl just to kill zamasu

The_Korey posted...

Beerus erases because the universe is not infinite. How he chooses is based on his own selfishness, but selfishness and evil are not the same thing.

congrats you just used Malthusianism

The_Korey posted...

Being wrong in your arrogant assumption is not the same as lying. And even then, Beerus is often wrong from underestimating mortals, kais, and others he sees as beneath him. Why would he be wrong about what he himself does for a living and the reasoning behind it?

i gave an example of him being wrong about using his destruct power

The_Korey posted...

Your words.

no its a fact beerus and zenoh and the angels do not have some divine insight they have never been shown or hinted to have such things

The_Korey posted...

Your words.

Pretty sure alternate timeline Zenny saved everyone's ass from the Zama/Black incident, so taking recurrung gags as an absolute statement sounds really silly.

Being wrong in your arrogant assumption is not the same as lying. And even then, Beerus is often wrong from underestimating mortals, kais, and others he sees as beneath him. Why would he be wrong about what he himself does for a living and the reasoning behind it?

That was a different guy. I have no horse in that race. Don't @ me.

Alt right Toriyama?

Beerus erases because the universe is not infinite. How he chooses is based on his own selfishness, but selfishness and evil are not the same thing.

Ace likes to ignore and complains about characters being too mean but is completely fine with them being anti-union

He's amoral, not evil.

AceMos posted...

uh no he killed countless trillions of ppl just to kill zamasu

Not sure if you're intentionally playing up now, but in any kase, I'm noticing a theme here where there's no justifying sacrifice to you. Zam was in a timeline that should not exist and had become so unstable n fucky that he was beginning to korrupt all time. Whether eraseing a timeline is the same as murder is up in the air, but in any kase, Zama was well on his way to becomming a major threat to everyone. Every planet. Every universe. Every time. Downplaying that is going beyond silly.

congrats you just used Malthusianism

Am I supposed to have a proplem with that? It's a different world with different rules and mechanics. I'm gonna konsider solutions for it that I would not konsider for my own.

i gave an example of him being wrong about using his destruct power

That's not him not knowing his power. That's him not knowing something is protecting Zamasu from his power. It would have worked if Zam didn't have the time ring.

His job is to destroy planets. It comes down to should he destroy planets for no real reason or should he give them a chance if he likes their food.

The_Korey posted...

Not sure if you're intentionally playing up now, but in any kase, I'm noticing a theme here where there's no justifying sacrifice to you. Zam was in a timeline that should not exist and had become so unstable n fucky that he was beginning to korrupt all time. Whether eraseing a timeline is the same as murder is up in the air, but in any kase, Zama was well on his way to becomming a major threat to everyone. Every planet. Every universe. Every time. Downplaying that is going beyond silly.

in the manga zamasu just duplicated a few times and the timeline was still erased

and who says alt timelines should not exist

hell future trunks goes to a new timeline at the end

Irony posted...

His job is to destroy planets. It comes down to should he destroy planets for no real reason or should he give them a chance if he likes their food.

he shouldnt destroy planets at all

AceMos posted...

he shouldnt destroy planets at all

it's an anime made for entertainment, of course he should destroy planets

AceMos posted...

he shouldnt destroy planets at all

yeah he should
its a cartoon and explosions are badass and fun

AceMos posted...

he shouldnt destroy planets at all

He's required to just like the Kais create them

Quick question. Does AceMos normally argue semantics about anime and whatnot?

I swear she was the one who made that that topic about the anime remake? (I can't remember the exact title name other that it was two words and the first word began with R and the other began with K.)

DementedDurian posted...

Quick question. Does AceMos normally argue semantics about anime and whatnot?

I swear she was the one who made that that topic about the anime remake? (I can't remember the exact title name other that it was two words and the first word began with R and the other began with K.)

Cant wait for Ace to review Breaking Bad and complain that Walter is too mean

AceMos posted...

in the manga zamasu just duplicated a few times and the timeline was still erased

I have not read the manga nor do I plan to. Anime Zeno did something really important and saved 99% of everyone's ass.

I dont know why this is such a big deal anyway. Its freaking Dragonball. Stop trying to make it more than what it is. I can argue with you all day why I think you are wrong TC but Dragonball Super doesnt deserve that kind of effort.

Irony posted...

He's required to just like the Kais create them

there are tons of planets they are not running out of planets

and there are tons of sentient species on the universe

if god really was behind the crusades would that suddenly make the crusades ok

or would you say that makes god evil

id say it makes god evil

AceMos posted...

if god really was behind the crusades would that suddenly make the crusades ok

or would you say that makes god evil

id say it makes god evil

It's not supposed to make perfect sense. It isn't your sense of morality its the intent of the writer. The writer wants gods of destruction who are aloof, and may destroy things on a whim but are sanctioned by a higher God who sees virtue as the meter to test whether whole universe's should exist at all. And who also loves fighting and seeing things explode.

AceMos posted...

there are tons of planets they are not running out of planets

and there are tons of sentient species on the universe

There's 28 planets in universe 7, so no, there's not tons of planets.

It's made very clear that Beerus and Supreme Kai were not doing their jobs correctly to help build the mortal level of their universe.

Supreme Kai is supposed to nurture and create what is considered an adequate civilization while Beerus is supposed to destroy the inadequate ones. Unfortunately Beerus just sleeps and let's Frieza slaughter everyone and Supreme Kai hides out on the Kai planet because of the Buu stuff.