Poll of the Day > Florida Schools to Tell Kids Slavery Benefited Black People

(+) Yeah! (+)

GEKGanon posted...

Edit: I'm alive today because two people met as a result of WW2. So you're going to tell me, given that my entire existence was contingent on WW2 happening, I didn't benefit from WW2?

adjl posted...

it's not technically wrong. It's just useless, insensitive, and does nothing to justify the overall situation.

Of course, in this case, it is actually wrong, or at least a gross misrepresentation of the situation. Slaves did learn skills while enslaved, certainly, but the vast majority of those skills were really only useful if they wanted to go work for the people that had had slaves filling those positions up until it became illegal. Skills that would allow them to branch out and advance in society were not taught to them, and in many states it was actually outright illegal to teach such things to slaves (literacy being a major one). Presenting slavery as being somehow an educational experience that offset the atrocities committed is outright false, and is being done here not because it's a position that has any objective merit, but solely for the sake of pushing the narrative that black Americans have not been historically disadvantaged and white Americans have done no wrong throughout history. It is blatant white supremacist indoctrination. Calling it anything else is either blind or complicit. Take your pick.

adjl posted...

Of course, in this case, it is actually wrong, or at least a gross misrepresentation of the situation. Slaves did learn skills while enslaved, certainly, but the vast majority of those skills were really only useful if they wanted to go work for the people that had had slaves filling those positions up until it became illegal. Skills that would allow them to branch out and advance in society were not taught to them, and in many states it was actually outright illegal to teach such things to slaves (literacy being a major one). Presenting slavery as being somehow an educational experience that offset the atrocities committed is outright false, and is being done here not because it's a position that has any objective merit, but solely for the sake of pushing the narrative that black Americans have not been historically disadvantaged and white Americans have done no wrong throughout history. It is blatant white supremacist indoctrination. Calling it anything else is either blind or complicit. Take your pick.

You're making these weird comments like it "offsets the atrocities". Nobody is arguing something "offsets" something else. What is being said is that people alive today have benefitted from turmoil faced by past generations, which is true of everyone, not any particular group.

The modern inhabitants of England experience the benefits of their long-ago ancestors being invaded by Romans first, and Normans later.

The modern inhabitants of Japan experience the benefits of their ancestors having reformed their national identity following a stunning loss during attempted imperial aggression and expansion.

The modern inhabitants of Germany experience the benefits of their ancestors having lost two wars of aggression twice.

The modern inhabitants of South Korea experience the benefits of their ancestors having suffered a war that tore their country in two.

Everything we are, and where we are, is contingent on who we've been and what has been done. If nothing beneficial comes from tragedy, then there is simply no room to recognize any benefit, because there is always tragedy.

Let's just give Florida back to Spain and Texas to Mexico

Lordkill posted...

Let's just give Florida back to Spain and Texas to Mexico

if we give texas back to mexico we have to give all of the southwest and californa back also

Edit: Everyone benefits from their own existence.

Do they? How does a life that has experienced nothing but suffering from the day their born to the day they die and never had a moment of enjoyment in their life to the point that they wish they were never born till the day they die benefit from their own existence?

GEKGanon posted...

The modern inhabitants of England experience the benefits of their long-ago ancestors being invaded by Romans first, and Normans later.

The modern inhabitants of Japan experience the benefits of their ancestors having reformed their national identity following a stunning loss during attempted imperial aggression and expansion.

The modern inhabitants of Germany experience the benefits of their ancestors having lost two wars of aggression twice.

The modern inhabitants of South Korea experience the benefits of their ancestors having suffered a war that tore their country in two.

The argument that people experience benefits from past tragedies is reliant on knowing how history would unfold if the tragedy hadn't happened in the first place. As there is no way to know how history would unfold if the tragedies never happened in the first place, your argument has no merit because you cannot prove that there is a benefit that was derived from the tragedy that wouldn't exist if the tragedy had never occurred in the first place.

On that note, while WWII might of been a catalyst for your grandparents meeting/having a child, you have no way to prove that they wouldn't have met/led to your existence for other reasons if WWII never happened.

GEKGanon posted...

Nobody is arguing something "offsets" something else.

That's pretty clearly what this curriculum is claiming by to highlighting the benefits of slavery and downplay the historical disadvantages faced by black Americans.

sveksii posted...

Do they? How does a life that has experienced nothing but suffering from the day their born to the day they die and never had a moment of enjoyment in their life to the point that they wish they were never born till the day they die benefit from their own existence?

Non-existence isn't an experience, only through living can they even formulate a position on their own being.

The argument that people experience benefits from past tragedies is reliant on knowing how history would unfold if the tragedy hadn't happened in the first place. As there is no way to know how history would unfold if the tragedies never happened in the first place, your argument has no merit because you cannot prove that there is a benefit that was derived from the tragedy that wouldn't exist if the tragedy had never occurred in the first place.

On that note, while WWII might of been a catalyst for your grandparents meeting/having a child, you have no way to prove that they wouldn't have met/led to your existence for other reasons if WWII never happened.

Nope, it is literally the opposite, where what presently is can only be attributed to what has been, explicitly because there is no other alternative.

adjl posted...

That's pretty clearly what this curriculum is claiming by to highlighting the benefits of slavery and downplay the historical disadvantages faced by black Americans.

Well, that's fuck up, and not what I'm about. I generally think most of what goes on in Florida is the opposite of what they should be doing.

GEKGanon posted...

Well, that's fuck up, and not what I'm about. I generally think most of what goes on in Florida is the opposite of what they should be doing.

Every time Florida sins, they get hotter... ooooops

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/climate/florida-100-degree-water.html

Lokarin posted...

Every time Florida sins, they get hotter... ooooops

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/climate/florida-100-degree-water.html

It probably doesn't help them they being in the camp that doesn't give a shit about climate change. They'll vote red until they are underwater.

Lokarin posted...

Every time Florida sins, they get hotter... ooooops

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/climate/florida-100-degree-water.html

gods rath is constant