Current Events > How is expanding the SCOTUS "Unhealthy" as Biden says?

(+) Yeah! (+)

NatsuSama posted...

The fact that you brought up the military and thought he can use it to expand the courts, realistically at all shows just how much you don't understand how the government actually works. Just either wet dreams rose Twitter tells people, or Republicans with their face concerns posing as concerned leftist.

He's saying that if all Republican members of Congress who were involved in treasonous activities got locked up, they wouldn't be able to vote from inside their cells. So Democrats would have a massive majority among the members actually present.

Which would allow passage of an expansion of the Supreme Court, along with a bunch of other stuff that would block Republicans from cheating in elections going forward. Which would mean the only way Republicans could ever gain power again would be to stop being the insane party.

ButteryMales posted...

How the hell do you still think I'm saying expand the court? If three Supreme Court justices commit treason why would they still have a vote in the Supreme Court?

He cannot unilaterally and realistically declare the Supreme Court committed treason and hust get away with it. You are talking complete wet dream nonesense, or fake concern ala GOP.

Because where does it stop? Each party is just going to want to expand the court when they come into power if its not already leaning their way.

and in case you havent been paying attention the past 15 years, the republicans are a lot better at taking advantage of this kind of fuckery then the democrats are.

NatsuSama posted...

He cannot unilaterally and realistically declare the Supreme Court committed treason.

You still haven't answered how. I literally quoted the constitution that says he has that power. The executive branch literally leads the police, army, DOJ, and prosecution.

ButteryMales posted...

You still haven't answered how. I literally quoted the constitution that says he has that power. The executive branch literally leads the police, army, DOJ, and prosecution.

No you cherry picked and misquoted the constitution.

The executive branch does not have unchecked authority to do whatever he wants with those things.

NatsuSama posted...

No you cherry picked and misquoted the constitution.

I did cherry pick out things relevant to the conversation, duh. I also posted the link that has the entire Executive Branch text in there so feel free to quote anything that proves me wrong.

Ivynn posted...

Why do Democrats lie down and let Republicans do what they want?

Because Democrats serve the interests of capital first and foremost.

I'm not American but it seems like term limits is the easy solution here. Like someone else said, someone who was likely already out of touch when they were given the position shouldn't be doing it 20+ years later.

The method put forth looks akin to when Lincoln did away with habeas corpus during Civil War. Don't think that will work again when country is not in a war with itself.

ButteryMales posted...

I did cherry pick out things relevant to the conversation, duh. I also posted the link that has the entire Executive Branch text in there so feel free to quote anything that proves me wrong.

The only thing you posted was you have no grasp of the 3 branches of the government. Just a romanticized version where you think President can realistically send troops wherever he please and there's no systems in place to check the President when we currently have 2 branches of government that isn't going to merrily play along.

NatsuSama posted...

The only thing you posted was you have no grasp of the 3 branches of the government. Just a romanticized version where you think President can realistically send troops wherever he please and there's no systems in place to check the President when we currently have 2 branches of government that isn't going to merrily play along.

If you know so much then why haven't you provided proof? Just post the proof if you have it or stop lying out of your ass.

JoCrazy posted...

Biden drives me nuts on some of the shit he says. He needs to grow a spine on a lot of issues. People hate this authoritarian Supreme Court. He'll get a lot of votes by standing up to them.

I wouldn't be too confident on that.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I dont like the idea of fighting shitty tactics with shitty tactics. That would make me abandon politics entirely.

Republicans try to limit voting rights because they know they lose if more people vote, and Democrats try to add more Democrats to the supreme court because they know they lose with the current Republican majority.

You can say we gotta fight fire with fire! or whatever, but that just makes me feel gross and not a mentality I want to be a part of.

It's surprising how many people seem to just want a left leaning Trump and McConnell.

emblem-man posted...

It's surprising how many people seem to just want a left leaning Trump and McConnell.

Yeah, it's very surprising that people want politicians who actually fight for them instead of being a spineless loser that lets the opposing party do everything they want.

Unknown5uspect posted...

Again, the court has changed makeup half a dozen times before. Why is it suddenly going to become a problem now?

Depends on which regards you mean. because it expanded once and that's basically it.

ArchNemo posted...

I'm not American but it seems like term limits is the easy solution here. Like someone else said, someone who was likely already out of touch when they were given the position shouldn't be doing it 20+ years later.

Congressional term limits as well, as whether you lean left or right, there are some really old fogies in both parties who clearly are clueless about where the country is at not just politically, but in terms of technology as well.

I cannot for the life of me understand why some folks on this site seriously thought governmental regulation of video games was the clear answer to the lootbox and microtransaction shenanigans that was all in the news several years back since a lot of these geezers were the same ones who were making such a big stink over violence in videogames back in the nineties.

1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah, it's very surprising that people want politicians who actually fight for them instead of being a spineless loser that lets the opposing party do everything they want.

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys that didnt scheme and cheat to get what they want. If its two equally unethical sides that just have opposing beliefsyeah, ill just let the chips fall where they may in this country and focus on my family.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys

The King of England was ordained by god. What a weird dogma for you to have.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys that didnt scheme and cheat to get what they want. If its two equally unethical sides that just have opposing beliefsyeah, ill just let the chips fall where they may in this country and focus on my family.

What do you expect them to do otherwise?

Just keep trying to win while Republicans maintain corruption and cheating until eventually sometime in the next 20 or 30 years we manage to get to a point where we we are not regressing as a country anymore?

Assuming it even works out like that?

ButteryMales posted...

The King of England was ordained by god. What a weird dogma for you to have.

Hey if politics are only meant to be a shit flinging loophole contest between both sides so old men in suits can give and take wealth and power back and forth for eternity, that actually makes my life easier because I no longer need to believe in a candidate or care how things turn out for anyone other than myself and my family. Youve opened my eyes.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Hey if politics are only meant to be a shit flinging loophole contest between both sides so old men in suits can give and take wealth and power back and forth for eternity, that actually makes my life easier because I no longer need to believe in a candidate or care how things turn out for anyone other than myself and my family. Youve opened my eyes.

Whatever, you can leave now.

emblem-man posted...

It's surprising how many people seem to just want a left leaning Trump and McConnell.

I feel like shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well at least we weren't underhanded" is not going to be the appropriate response when some fascist freakshow actually does effectively terminate our democracy and then sets his sights on trans people.

ButteryMales posted...

Whatever, you can leave now.

Will do, best of luck to your blue ties, I hope they beat the red ties this season.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Will do, best of luck to your blue ties, I hope they beat the red ties this season.

You just said you don't care. You have a diminutive view on what's good as lawful when that makes train derailments and corruption good in your eyes.

Edit: You're even worse because Mitch McConnell stealing Supreme Court seats is treason and unlawful. You're fine with fake norms dictating the Country's welfare.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys that didnt scheme and cheat to get what they want. If its two equally unethical sides that just have opposing beliefsyeah, ill just let the chips fall where they may in this country and focus on my family.

It's not unethical to stop republicans by any means necessary.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

Because where does it stop? Each party is just going to want to expand the court when they come into power if its not already leaning their way.

Easy, make it impossible for conservatives to ever expand the court after your side has already done it.

There's more than enough loopholes and legalese to make it happen.

There is no path forward for the supreme court as a legitimate body of government. Any pretense of legitimacy was erased back when Republicans prevented Obama from appointing a justice.

Since then, several of the judges have lied under oath and one of them is openly taking bribes. Several of them are also openly legislating based on their religious beliefs, but that's not even new. Scalia did that too. The supreme court has been a sham for my entire life.

Packing the court wouldn't make it any less legitimate. It would create an arms race for both parties to keep adding people whenever they're in power until the court becomes basically just another congress, but I don't really see how that's any worse than the current situation.

Biden's just a naive douchebag who doesn't actually have any values. He's a blind traditionalist who thinks it's still 1970 and he can still pal around with his segregationist buddies and compromise on human rights to get legislation passed to put more "super predator" black guys in jail for the same crimes his idiot son films himself committing.

ZMythos posted...

Easy, make it impossible for conservatives to ever expand the court after your side has already done it.

There's more than enough loopholes and legalese to make it happen.

Literally impossible if the GOP ever take power again.

RvW should have proven to people by now that you cant nake it impossible to course correct anything they dub wrong if they have the votes in Congress to do it. Not to mention the SC is not on your side.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys that didnt scheme and cheat to get what they want. If its two equally unethical sides that just have opposing beliefsyeah, ill just let the chips fall where they may in this country and focus on my family.

you're right, the correct response is to sit back, shake your heads and tut saying "disgraceful" while the republicans lie, cheat and steal to reverse all progress in equality made over the last 70 years, one minority at a time, until it's the great white christian patriarchy they remember in their wet dreams.

"When they go low, we go high" doesn't actually work. sitting back and following the rules surprisingly doesn't work when the other side is willing to flout the constitution when it comes to gerrymandering, with the conservative members of the supreme court ruling that "it's not the court's place to handle these issues". How do you propose the democrats make any progress in freedom or fairness when republican legislators of any majority can simply remap the state to minimise the effect of democrat votes? "oh people just need to vote" YES THEY KNOW THIS. That's why they're taking these unprecedented, unconstitutional steps to minimise your vote. And the republican-leaning supreme court will just turn around and either approve the constitution-breaking or say "well this is undemocratic, but it's not my place to make a decision".

Your problem is that you still believe you're under a fair and free democracy. That principle is long gone, a veil drawn over a rapidly-expanding right-wing power grab. You're standing in front of the oncoming train saying "but it's the driver's job to stop"

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I just thought Democrats were meant to be the good guys that didnt scheme and cheat to get what they want. If its two equally unethical sides that just have opposing beliefsyeah, ill just let the chips fall where they may in this country and focus on my family.

Na, the two still aren't equally bad, so I wasn't trying to imply that. One (republicans) are definitely worse.

1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah, it's very surprising that people want politicians who actually fight for them instead of being a spineless loser that lets the opposing party do everything they want.

Yeah true. It's not surprising. I understand where the motivation comes from, I just disagree with it.
It's just that I dislike trump and Mitch for how they "fight" for their constituents, so I'm going to dislike it if Dems do it. Even if it's for policies I support.

You don't save Democracy by ending it.

Term limits have always been the solution.

Sandalorn posted...

You don't save Democracy by ending it.

Term limits have always been the solution.

Your solution has absolutely no chance of happening before the GOP takes multiple shots at ending democracy again.

Shadow_Don posted...

Your solution has absolutely no chance of happening before the GOP takes multiple shots at ending democracy again.

So your high brow plan is to end Democracy before they do it? Well yes, that sure separates the wheat from the chaff doesn't it.

Sandalorn posted...

So your high brow plan is to end Democracy before they do it? Well yes, that sure separates the wheat from the chaff doesn't it.

The point is that they've already taken anti-demlcratic action that goes beyond expanding the courts and have openly committed to doing worse.

Sure maybe I can accept an argument that we don't need to take this step yet but we are rapidly approaching a situation where its either the dems get comfortable with being underhanded or they get comfortable with the mass arrests that the GOP front runner for president is promising to do.

Sandalorn posted...

So your high brow plan is to end Democracy before they do it? Well yes, that sure separates the wheat from the chaff doesn't it.

An inherently, purposefully anti-democratic, countermajoritiarian institution made up of unelected, elite, lifetime appointed philosopher kings in robes, mostly appointed by Presidents that lost the popular vote is not my idea of "democracy." Just because it's an existing institution doesn't mean it contributes to democracy. Many democracies don't even have judicial review at all, much less the all encompassing form we have, wielded by an antidemocratic body given the power to overrule the popular branches.

Adding members to this body gives it more respect that it deserves, but adding members more in line with what the public wants is democratic, not anti-democratic. Keeping things the way they are is anti-democratic.

The Court is supposed to be apolitical. Expanding just means one group of partisan hacks outnumbers the other group of partisan hacks.... until the other side gets into office and we expand again and add more partisan hacks.

Sandalorn posted...

You don't save Democracy by ending it.

Term limits have always been the solution.

Democracy is already dying and isn't worth saving if it means maintaining this two party system.

DNC and GOP both need to go.

lilORANG posted...

The Court is supposed to be apolitical.

This is tooth fairy shit. There isn't a world in which an apolotical court is even possible.

Intro2Logic posted...

This is tooth fairy shit.

Ok but even the tooth fairy knows what "supposed to be" means

What do you think "apolitical" means, exactly?

Intro2Logic posted... "Supposed to be" according to who, exactly?

Basically everyone from the founders to modern day legal scholars. There's a reason the other 2 branches of government are regularly called the "political branches"

lilORANG posted...

There's a reason the other 2 branches of government are regularly called the "political branches"

Please offer a single citation of this term being used in this way.

Intro2Logic posted...

Please offer a single citation of this term being used in this way.

Are you a No_U_L7 alt lmao?

lilORANG posted...

Expanding just means one group of partisan hacks outnumbers the other group of partisan hacks

Well I'm glad that's not the case now or anything

Blo posted...

Well I'm glad that's not the case now or anything

The solution is to ignore SCOTUS rulings. Not continually add more Justices every 4 years when power shifts.

Government does not work as founders intended. The 3 branches were supposed to be fighting each other for power like a 3 person game of risk. One side gets too strong and the other 2 team up to beat them back, ultimately stabbing each other in the back before the third player is removed completely. The other two branches setting the size of the court is a legitimate part of the checks and balances.

What happens in reality is the 3 branches are 3 arenas where 2 parties fight. The judicial, especially today, is just as political as the other 2 branches. They make no effort to hide their blatant bias or the other justices would at minimum take issue with Thomas behavior.

It's not. It's times like this that make it abundantly clear the divide between Democrats and Republicans is an illusion. The true divide is between the mega wealthy and the politicians they own, and the rest of us.

It's unhealthy because Joe Biden's corporate masters say it is, full stop. He can make up whatever incoherent reason he wants, but the truth is this court is the friendliest ever towards corporate interests (which is quite saying something), and all politicians from both sides want to keep it that way.

Bare minimum: expanding it so there's at least one justice per circuit is healthy.

Sir_Specter posted...

Since then, several of the judges have lied under oath and one of them is openly taking bribes.

A Nazi's bribes. Don't forget that.

Neoconkers posted...

"When they go low, we go high" doesn't actually work.

Yep, the correct response is "When they go low, we stomp them. With cleats."