Current Events > Lance Armstrong on transgender people in sports .

(+) Yeah! (+)

This isn't a place for honest, civil discussion at all.

It's a place for people to stroke each other's ego and find the "chud" who doesn't toe the line and act as agressively as possible towards that person.

I mean what did you expect when they closed 261 and made it 50 karms come here? That the mods were all the sudden gonna be fair? Lol

"Our roided-up guy beat your roided-up guy."

Hold on TC, I'm still waiting on Bernie Madoffs advice on ethical stock trading.

This isn't a place for honest, civil discussion at all.

It's a place for people to stroke each other's ego and find the "chud" who doesn't toe the line and act as agressively as possible towards that person.

I mean what did you expect when they closed 261 and made it 50 karms come here? That the mods were all the sudden gonna be fair? Lol

This isn't a place for honest, civil discussion at all.

Congrats on carrying water for the genocidal agenda of far-right governments

Trans people are suffering and dying and people want to pretend to care about the sanctity of women's sports.

Please never speak about LGBTQ rights ever fucking again.

How about trans women compete in sports and everyone fucking deals with it?

I ain't touching this convo

She took hormone therapy. I don't know the details of what that entailed. I don't know about surgeries either. It's quite rightly not really our businsess.
She was 44 when she broke the records.

With more research and discussion there might be better guidelines to when trans athletes will be let in with no argument.

Haha this is so painfully accurate.

May I ask what's wrong with the research and discussion we have now?

What convo?

People are different. Acknowledged. Now why don't we have differences inside of the genders outside of weight classes in a few sports?

Is it fair for athletes with natural advantages to take away from other athletes? Think of how many athletes have been kept from sports glory because someone naturally better than them was competing at the same time.

Apparently that's fine as long as they all were born with the same chromosomes?

I believe it is seperated in genders to have an even playing field

May I ask what's wrong with the research and discussion we have now?

ARP ARP ARP *claps flippers*

I dont know when i ask for them to be presented to me i get backlash.
I've seen many conflicting research to make me comfortable about it or either to few of a sample size.

Well historically you'd be wrong. The reason women's sports exist is because they were forbidden to play sports until they decided to make their own intramural teams and leagues off the books in colleges in the early 20th century which were later officially recognized and later made policy via Title IX.

Thats what competition or sports is.

Do you not believe there is a drastic difference in biological men and women?
Do you believe there should be no women sports at all?

I believe it is seperated in genders to have an even playing field and to a have a more entertaining fair product on the court, track, or field.

The problem is that there _IS_ a study on this, it just says that trans women don't posses any advantage in sports, aside from height, after about 18 months of HRT.

the study indicates that the main "advantage" conferred to men is increased blood O2 that is carried by testosterone.

the whole "men build muscles 3x faster than women" is literal horse shit. men are able to work out longer and harder, on average, and thus it appears they build muscles faster.

in reality, people build muscles at the same rate.

Well historically you'd be wrong. The reason women's sports exist is because they were forbidden to play sports until they decided to make their own intramural teams and leagues off the books in colleges in the early 20th century which were later officially recognized and later made policy via Title IX.

But why stop at only separating out a tiny portion of women from women because they occasionally win? Imagine how much more fair and competitive we could make men's and women's sports if we divided it up even more.

So "natural advantages are unfair" begins and ends at the chromosomes you were born with, regardless of your skill level or how much hormone therapy you have gone through? But all other natural advantages are "Welp that's sports?"

Forgot to ask too, but what's wrong with the current guidelines? The majority of sports have accommodations for transgender people to play within their gender if they acquiesce to certain conditions.

What's wrong with those? Like say, let's pick cycling, if you want to get specific:

https://usacycling.org/about-us/governance/transgender-athletes-policy

A new report has found trans women do not have any advantages over any other women, when competing in elite sport, if existing rules are followed.

Findings from a report, which was commissioned by the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport, clarified that biomedical factors do not pose an advantage, but suggests social factors like nutrition and training quality do.

The new report is an in-depth review of all scientific literature published between 2011 and 2021 in English regarding trans women and their participation in elite-level sports.

These studies show there is little evidence to show that factors relating to male puberty such as lung size and bone density produce an advantage for trans athletes.
Existing rules regarding trans women in sport most often relate to the suppression of testosterone to certain low levels.
The report concluded that trans women that have begun testosterone suppression have no clear biological advantage.

There is not one discrete biomarker that allows easy comparison of athletes bodies to each other in terms of performance, the report reads.

Trans people, especially trans women, have been unfairly targeted in the elite and grass-roots sports worlds, with some even being banned entirely from competing due to anti-trans rhetoric.
The report found strong evidence that elite sport policy is made within transmisogynist, misogynoir, racist, geopolitical cultural norms.
These norms are the outcome of a long history of exclusion of women in sports, especially women whose bodies did not conform to standards of femininity.

A number of UK governing sports bodies, such as the Welsh Rugby Union, The Scottish Rugby Union and British Cycling have all unfairly suspended trans people from participating at elite levels in present and past policies. British Cycling has allowed trans people to compete at grass-root levels but has still banned athletes from competing in competitions.
Despite new evidence emerging every year, anti-trans policies have stripped various athletes of a chance at competing.
Elite cyclist, Emily Bridges, is one example. She was not allowed to enter a womens event at the British National Omnium Championships.
Bridges, who came out publicly as trans in October 2020, was due to compete against some of the top female cyclists in what would have been her first womens event on 2 April (2021).

Despite new evidence proving that biological traits from trans people pose no real threat to cisgender men and women, the community is still vilified and barred from competitive sports.

I dont follow cycling ao I don't know, do those rules apply to all races or just that specific organization or league?

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/26/trans-women-no-unfair-advantage-elite-sport-new-report-finds/

Still not sure why people cant get past this lol

Frankly if that "heather swanson" shit form south park worked, Armstrong would be one of the dudes most likely to explit it

Any competition under the auspices of American professional cycling, which is just about all of them.

I hate south park because it really is ignorant writers appealing to a dumb audience of largely middle class conservative young men who think they are wise and courageous because they go after pop culture issues from a selfish, privileged, and cynical angle they can relate to.

Essentially: "Well I'm a straight guy from a conservative community, and we don't have those trans and gay people walking around, and look at how superior we are! South Park really gets it, man... not afraid to stick it to those libs that want us to accept their right to exist!"

Saying that, i can still talk about sports and keeping it fair.

Nine NBA players in total are under six feet tall; four players are 5'10 and five are 5'11. The number of NBA players over seven feet tall has been increasing in recent years and in 2021 there are 28 players in the NBA who are 7'0 or taller.

Saying that, i can still talk about sports and keeping it fair.

Anti-scientific bullshit like this doesnt help the conversation.

If you're genuine about trans sports fairness, I can tell you why it's not a good argument. And that is that sports are not fair to begin with. Two players try out for the Celtics of equal athleticism. Which one is going to make it. The 5'7" one or the 6'4" one? Which player is going to play defense for the Giants. The 5'9 180 pound guy or the 6'2" 240 pound guy?

https://www.mytopsportsbooks.com/nba-betting/average-height-of-players-in-2021/#:~:text=Nine%20NBA%20players%20in%20total,are%207'0%20or%20taller.

It's all a farce. If there were enough trans athletes to form their own league that'd be one thing, but there isn't. And for every trans athlete that wins a competition, there's 3 that don't.

EXHAUSTING it's fucking exhausting

And this is it really.

I've wasted a half hour of my life on something Flaming Evil Homer could have personally researched or asked Google. Like you can literally type in "what are the rules for competing when transgender for cycling", which is in fact exactly what I did.

This discussion was unnecessary and was predicated on his (and others) presumptions about the issue.

And then complaining that we're not nice to him about it.

And i appreciate it. Like i said im too lazy and dont care too much about it until somebody brings it up on CE.

My official stance is as long as rules or guidelines like that can be followed to allow trans women compete they should be allowed. I think in order to get more data they need to be more open and allow trans women to compete and support their eligibility publicly when called out.

I still believe the research is limited like most of them even in support for trans women having no advantage, but there is no way to truly know until we actually see more of them allowed to compete in a professional setting.
If there is no pattern suggesting having advantages the next number of years good, and if there is a pattern they can reassess the situation and see if further changes are needed for their guidelines.

You've never seen an episode of South Park in your life have you? XD

South Park is young conservative propaganda now?