Current Events > Maybe there isn't room for 2 comic book cinematic universes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The dceu stuff seems to always under achieve at the box office (aside from aquaman and wonder woman 1)

Batman vs superman should have been one of the biggest movies ever. Justice league should be avengers level. The suicide squad should have been guardians level (this one has asterisks due to release timing). The rock couldnt save it. Michael keaton doesnt hit like tobey and andrew. Their d listers like shazam cant catch on like mcu d listers

Ant man and the wasp quantumania is marvel's biggest flop (yes i know some early mcu titles and some pandemic titles made less...but this had no excuses). In the dcu it would be a semi success.

The xmen movies all made less than thor love and thunder.

Spiderman live action and the villain verse has been hit or miss.

Maybe people follow mcu and that fills the comic book media need?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/3/7/AADPpsAAEk-l.jpg

hyperskate65 posted...

LOL

The MCU actually took time to develop its expanded universe and promised fans there'd be a point where there'd be a payoff from the numerous branches of their movies coming together, and the movies were filmed with a cohesive vision in mind. DC attempted to emulate that success but they didn't have the patience to actually develop its expanded universe and they didn't offer the fans a cohesive story to look forward to. They made a single poorly received film then they put all their hopes into rushing a giant ensamble cast superhero movie without developing any of the characters first, then they've floundering and flopping around while promising the next release, and then the next release, and then finally this one is when the DCEU gets its shit together and they'll finally establish elements of an overarching plot. Except they never do, because they keep on promising a pay day but they don't establish a setup first.

Yeah. DC and Universal's Dark Universe tried to cram too much together at the start. The MCU and the Godzilla/Kong Monsterverse work because they started with standalone films and expended over the course of sequels.

A_Good_Boy posted...

The MCU actually took time to develop its expanded universe and promised fans there'd be a point where there'd be a payoff from the numerous branches of their movies coming together, and the movies were filmed with a cohesive vision in mind. DC attempted to emulate that success but they didn't have the patience to actually develop its expanded universe and they didn't offer the fans a cohesive story to look forward to. They made a single poorly received film then they put all their hopes into rushing a giant ensamble cast superhero movie without developing any of the characters first, then they've floundering and flopping around while promising the next release, and then the next release, and then finally this one is when the DCEU gets its shit together and they'll finally establish elements of an overarching plot. Except they never do, because they keep on promising a pay day but they don't establish a setup first.

Pretty much this.

The MCU nailed it with the first 3 phases.

Capeshit needs to die

Irony posted...

Capeshit needs to die

Wtf? My first name is Capeshit

Guise says "Bring it on, other multiversal weirdos. Also, sign my book."

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Wtf? My first name is Capeshit

Nice try. I know it's Foreskin

I dont like actors having dialogue with themselves. It always leads to corny quips.

Irony posted...

Nice try. I know it's Foreskin

Fuck

But yea my last name is cumsoft

I think the issue is moreso that DC didn't do the legwork.

Like, the Paramount Marvel movies were individual movies that were connected through that initial "Avengers initiative" story hook. Every movie was self-contained and worked to establish each of the Avengers individually. If they did well, they'd do a crossover movie. If not, here's five superhero movies with an aborted long-term story plan.

The Avengers was the culmination of like four years and millions of dollars spent making those individual movies. There was a promise of that connected universe, but they were specifically sequel hooks hidden at the end of the credits of each individual movie. When the Avengers came out, that was the payoff.

The mistake that every other cinematic universe made was that they all leaned into the Avengers angle right out of the gate. In The Mummy, the Nick Fury character is portrayed as Dr. Jekyll and there's signs of the other monsters in little cameos. Dr. Jekyll is just outright in The Mummy. When are they making the Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde movie starring Russell Crowe? There's no organic build-up. In BvS, there's a part at the end of the movie that is basically a glorified ad for the DCEU - teaser footage of Wonder Woman, Aqua Man and the Flash. There's no other way to describe it - it's an advertisement. They go "look, look, connected universe! We've got a connected universe!".

There were like four individual movies before the Avengers. The characters didn't know each other, they were off in their own little corner of the world facing their own personal issues. Those movies individually established the characters, their stakes and their abilities. Every movie was an exercise in worldbuilding. And then with the Avengers, worlds collided.

The second movie in the DCEU is a team-up movie. Batman meets Superman before we got properly introduced to Batman. The third movie was the team-up movie - we didn't know jack shit about Aqua Man, Cyborg or the Flash, and we knew next to nothing about Wonder Woman. None of them had movies out before Justice League. Universal's Dark Universe was technically a team-up movie from the word "go": we have Dr. Jekyll, but we don't have context for who he is or what he's doing yet. You recognise him because he's Dr. Jekyll. They didn't put the work into establishing the character, they told you his name and went "get ready for that rollercoaster of a movie when Tom Cruise's The Mummy breaks box office records!".

Iron Man is its own movie, and then Nick Fury comes in and goes "I'm putting together a team". The Incredible Hulk is its own movie - I think Tony Stark is the one who recruits Bruce Banner? I don't even remember how Thor is connected, but after his single, standalone adventure - there's the Avengers teaser again. Captain America fights the Nazis and ends up in modern day America.

The DCEU had a forced conflict and a shameless commercial for future movies. The Dark Universe pointed at Russell Crowe and went "Dr. Jekyll!!! It's Dr. Jekyll!!! Are you excited?!". They didn't put the time or effort into their cinematic universes.

DC could have made a standalone Batman movie, and then shown the first little bit of BvS at the end as a teaser. Bruce Wayne is in Metropolis to check on his company after his little bat adventure, and then-- Superman flies through it like an atomic brick. That's a wham shot. That's a sequel hook.

The Mummy could have been a standalone movie. It might have sucked, and everything else would have been cancelled, but it would have been less embarrassing than scrapping an entire series of movies after taking this publicity shot full of movie stars:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/5/AAbh80AAEk_B.jpg

It's not just that multiple cinematic universe would have homogenised the movie market. That's absolutely an issue that no-one thought to address, but that's not the biggest takeaway here. The biggest takeaway is that DC skimped on the foundation that makes a connected universe work in the first place. The Flash should have been like the third of fourth movie in the Snyderverse; now it's the FINAL FILM in the Snyderverse. Justice League came out before Wonder Woman, Cyborg, The Flash or Aqua Man had their own movie, and out of those four, only one of them was a character of note in BvS - The Flash was a glorified cameo. The issue is that DC made their Avengers movie a weird combination of the second and third movies in their big multimedia franchise, when the MCU's Avengers was the fifth movie that tied four basically unrelated movies into a single, cohesive whole.

It took four movies worth of individual worldbuilding, and those four movies built The Avengers. DC tried to do the same thing with 2 movies that said nothing about the other 5 members of the Justice League. That's why the DCEU - and just about every cinematic universe apart from the MCU - failed. They didn't put the work in, they chased trends without understanding why the original thing worked in the first place.

Certainly doesn't help that most know not of DC other than Batman and Supes.

Unless of course they made effort to watch cartoons during a certain half-decade or so when everyone who did so learned about a bunch of other DCAU characters.

Without exposure, you only know the stars of the times that various refereces manage to at least remind people are a thing.

Who are basically "Batman. Also Superman. And there is some other S guy, Spiderman. Oh, and the X-men, they had a bunch of guys as a team and I always liked [insert] because I could shoot/use/whatever lasers/grab/play poker in the old arcade games."

Turns out you should not conglomerate people and TV stations that betray the host company. Oh, and also actually flesh out your characters to the audiences before jumping on the bandwagon of the multiverse.

If the mcu followed dceu order it would have launched like this

Iron man
Captain america civil war
Guardians of the galaxy
Black widow
Avengers
Black panther
Ant man
Captain marvel
Eternals
Guardians of thr galaxy 2
Thor
Ant man 2
Falcon and the winter soldier

Do we really need to blame it on a lack of room, when everyone who isn't a Synder cultist can see it failed because it was **** that had no idea about the characters it was supposed to be adapting?

The DCEU had a chance to rebound after Justice League. Aquaman and Shazam proved there was still interest in the property. Piggybacking off of those titles WB seemed to be on the right path of now introducing the lesser known characters like The Flash and Cyborg. They could've even tapped into the black media movement of Black Panther, by introducing John Stewart. Unfortunately, the DCEU was plagued by firings, indecision, crazed actors, bad press, and finally Covid. By the time WB pulled themselves out of the muck, they faced a whole other issue of superhero fatigue.