Current Events > This post about how men's emotions are required to be performative

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'll never get it out of my head. The top reply:

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/cb0v65/cmv_in_heterosexual_relationships_the_problem/

I think there is a tendency for women to underaccount for how much emotional labor they generate.

Honestly, I'm not inclined to put a whole lot of thought into this question. The question itself so heavily loaded, its terms and premises rooted in a feminist discourse men aren't meaningfully able to participate in, that there really isn't much anyone can say, except to either agree in whole or in part, niggling over minor details.

For example, you write: "I've seen this in younger relationships where women will ask their partners to open up to them but their partners won't be willing to put the emotional work in, instead preferring to ignore that stuff."

Yes, I know. This belief is all the rage right now. Poor women trying to get their men to open up about their emotions, but they just won't. Too stubborn. Too emotionally underdeveloped. Must be all the male-power fantasy media they consume. Here's an unfortunate reality: Women, in general, have very little patience for men's emotions that don't suit their needs. Our emotions aren't really concerned over, except insofar as they affect women. Literally nobody cares if we're sad, depressed, feeling hopeless, defeated, anxious, confused, uncertain, unsure of ourselves, and so forth unless it affects them, in which case it's usually a problem for them. Nobody wants to hear it. Typically it just upsets them because we are less valuable as emotional outlets for their own feelings, less firm rocks in a turbulent sea, or whatever other purposes our emotions may be recruited for. Men's emotions are not *for us*, as they are constantly being hijacked for someone else's needs. Sometimes these are broad social goals, but mostly these are the needs of a domestic partner. To ensure men remain useful emotional receptacles, we are punished our entire lives for demonstrating emotion beyond a narrow band of acceptability, typically situational: e.g., we're supposed to be courageous when that is what is required of us, angry when that is what is required of us, loving when that is what is required, and so forth. Anything else is routinely, often brutally shamed.

Now your instinct here is to come up with something about how it's men who are punishing other men for being emotional (i.e. the ol' "don't be a pussy"). However, this is a myth. First of all, when men call each other "pussies" (qua *coward*) or some variant, it's typically to spur action, not punish emotion. Secondly, men share a great deal more emotional content with each other than women think they do. Other men are almost always the safer choice, because---and here's the secret---women are far more punishing of men's emotions than we are. We may not be crying on each other shoulders, but other men are usually our only avenue for discussing and exploring our own emotions without fear of judgement. This is a lesson we learn many times: *Displaying any emotion except for the one which is demanded of us almost always results in a worsening of the situation, isolation, and shaming.* Displaying *unwanted* emotion is how you get friendzoned by your own girlfriend or wife. Hell, a man's flagging self-confidence is practically permission to cheat. Angry when that isn't what's desired? Enjoy being labeled "toxic." Not angry enough when we are to be someone's striking edge or meat shield? Not a *man* at all. Romantic interest in a woman is unrequited? Creep. A woman's romantic interest is unrequited? He's cold, doesn't know what's best for him, not interested in commitment, boyish, can't express himself, etc.

I've written more than I anticipated, and I realize that the preponderance of it doesn't address my initial claim--namely the emotional make-work women generate. The connection is that our emotions are co-opted by women in order to serve their interests. Nobody cares if we prefer the white napkins to the taupe; the point is that we must demonstrate a sufficient level of care and engagement in the question in order to reassure an insecure women of our commitment to the relationship, which in our minds have nothing to do with each other. Our emotions, your needs. Well, sometimes you don't get what you want.

How many times I've had a partner say that she wants me to "show more emotion", but what she actually means is that she requires me to display the appropriate level of emotion (to suit her needs). She wanted me to cry manly tears, or show a tiny sliver of vulnerability, or a little badge of indignant anger. But never outright sobbing, never bone-dead existential dread, never furious scary rage. Those emotions are inconvenient and not useful, right?

Spicy hot take: stuff like this gets swept under the rug because it's not en vogue to point out that women might be main the source of men's issues some of the time.

I only cry when Tataru cries or a cute anime girl

I'm glad that I've mostly had the fortune to meet women who give a damn about my emotional well-being.

I feel like most men and women try to suit themselves, particularly their emotions to what the other sex wants and end up in this sort of emotional quagmire where neither side can truly express what they want from the other side or even understand eachother on the subject. (Often times making eachother miserable) Usually leaving one side to be more emotionally available than the other (often based on preconceived notions of what the other side wants)

Typically it is best to grow emotionally with your partner in my experience and open up as they do, like all other aspects of a relationship where you should be able to match them and grow with them on this.

Neither side should need to feel emotionally repressed based on the others emotional preferences.

My opinion anyways.

Tldr

itachi15243 posted...

I'm glad that I've mostly had the fortune to meet women who give a damn about my emotional well-being.

I feel like most men and women try to suit themselves, particularly their emotions to what the other sex wants and end up in this sort of emotional quagmire where neither side can truly express what they want from the other side or even understand eachother on the subject. (Often times making eachother miserable) Usually leaving one side to be more emotionally available than the other (often based on preconceived notions of what the other side wants)

Typically it is best to grow emotionally with your partner in my experience and open up as they do, like all other aspects of a relationship where you should be able to match them and grow with them on this.

Neither side should need to feel emotionally repressed based on the others emotional preferences.

My opinion anyways.

I have a loving partner who does care about my emotional well-being, but at times I still see the socialised expectation of what men are/should be in there. When I brought up this topic to her, she said "you know, one of my favourite memories is when my dad cried at the birth of my son". I think what she was trying to say is that it's ok for men to be vulnerable. And all I could think was...you mean to say he showed the correct amount of emotion at the appropriate time?

There's definitely some grains of truth in that, but I'd be cautious about taking it as "this is the norm" rather than just "this is a thing that does sometimes happen".

There's a literal Friends episode about this with Bruce Willis that's almost 25 years old.

I dont think its fair to put this on all women as Ive certainly known some where this doesnt apply. However, Ive known no shortage where it does.

Its just another way of perpetuating toxic masculinity, which women do just as routinely as men, even if their methods differ.

Ok what the hell , this is the second topic and article in the same day to use the similar sounding n-word to mean "needling over small issues"

It's not really that common a word to be that frequent

Glob posted...

I dont think its fair to put this on all women as Ive certainly known some where this doesnt apply. However, Ive known no shortage where it does.

Its just another way of perpetuating toxic masculinity, which women do just as routinely as men, even if their methods differ.

It should be implicit that this does not mean all women, just a thing that women do or that men experience from women.

Like when we talk about men being creepy towards women on public transport, it's understood that not every man does this.

Noumas posted...

Ok what the hell , this is the second topic and article in the same day to use the similar sounding n-word to mean "needling over small issues"

It's not really that common a word to be that frequent

This is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone take issue with that word and I've been using it all my life, but it may be a british slang thing

This reminds me of chris rock whining about women

https://youtu.be/r5lomAqlIP8

Relevant parts at beginning and end of the video