Current Events > Verdict reached in the Proud Boys seditious conspiracy trial

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rexdragon125 posted...

They even had Civil War January 6th shirts made for the occasion. That's another scary thing, it was planned in the open and the FBI gave zero fucks.

The U.S. traditionally handles white supremacy with kids' gloves.

And that's at absolute worst.

TMOG posted...

Whose alt

Just because they're proud boys and just because they were at 1/6 doesn't mean we should make assumptions about their guilt without even viewing the evidence. Assuming they're guilty of all counts just because they're shitty people is just taking logical shortcuts to fulfill your desire for vengeance. Reviewing and considering the evidence is a more important process that the actual outcome of the trial. In lieu of making that effort, you should probably just not make outlandish claims--It's the literal behavior, not figurative, literal and historical behavior of authoritarians to ascribe guilt without care for the burden of evidence based on codified law--This is what our banned friend was doing, hence my criticisms of him and NOT of the Proud Boys being convicted. I care more about the health and consistency of our legal system than the punishing of my enemy's two bit political actors. I'm glad seditionists have been locked up, however.

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Just because they're proud boys and just because they were at 1/6 doesn't mean we should make assumptions about their guilt without even viewing the evidence. Assuming they're guilty of all counts just because they're shitty people is just taking logical shortcuts to fulfill your desire for vengeance. Reviewing and considering the evidence is a more important process that the actual outcome of the trial. In lieu of making that effort, you should probably just not make outlandish claims--It's the literal behavior, not figurative, literal and historical behavior of authoritarians to ascribe guilt without care for the burden of evidence based on codified law--This is what our banned friend was doing, hence my criticisms of him and NOT of the Proud Boys being convicted. I care more about the health and consistency of our legal system than the punishing of my enemy's two bit political actors. I'm glad seditionists have been locked up, however.

again pongo where were you on Jan 6th?

Pogo isnt wrong. Due process exists for a reason.

DOOM-64 posted...

again pongo where were you on Jan 6th?

I was at the Capitol building trying to kill the Vice Pre--Ooooh you almost got me!

Shut the fuck up and stop embarassing yourself. You're mad at me because I don't treat politics like you do--A vehicle to express your dissatisfaction hatred towards others. I'm concerned with identifying problems and creating solutions that work long-term. You're concerned with the red meat thrown to you by callous instigators. You don't have to accept my way of doing things but you'll look like less of a fool if you stop trying to paint me as some fucking alt-right psy-op.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The U.S. traditionally handles white supremacy with kids' gloves.

And that's at absolute worst.

We also had Trump as president and his cronies in various departments making sure the federal government didn't act. Christopher Miller told the DC national guard to stand down on January 6th.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/4/AABjoOAAEcoe.jpg

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I'm concerned with identifying problems and creating solutions that work long-term.

Plenty of top US government law enforcement officials and even the FBI director say that white supremacists and the far right are the top existential threat to the country. They commit the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US. How about we start doing something systemic about it instead of just being super concerned they're being prosecuted fairly on an individual basis.

CableZL posted...

https://twitter.com/JordanOnRecord/status/1654160007699611649

That's one thing I hadn't thought of. I hope they make that process public if it does play out.

Really sad that people with a purple heart sunk to this level...

Rexdragon125 posted...

Plenty of top US government law enforcement officials and even the FBI director say that white supremacists and the far right are the top existential threat to the country. They commit the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US. How about we start doing something systemic about it instead of just being super concerned they're being prosecuted fairly on an individual basis.

Yeah, I agree? Why are you implying we can't do both?

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1654508670527455232?s=46

One of the jurors did an interview and gave some insight to why Pezzola wasn't found guilty for seditious conspiracy.

lmfao

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I was at the Capitol building trying to kill the Vice Pre--Ooooh you almost got me!

Shut the fuck up and stop embarassing yourself. You're mad at me because I don't treat politics like you do--A vehicle to express your dissatisfaction hatred towards others. I'm concerned with identifying problems and creating solutions that work long-term. You're concerned with the red meat thrown to you by callous instigators. You don't have to accept my way of doing things but you'll look like less of a fool if you stop trying to paint me as some fucking alt-right psy-op.

all I see you doing is going like well achsuallyyy about the proud boys so X

2008: Too big to fail
2023: Too dumb to jail

-Juror viewed Pezzola as too dumb to be part of seditious conspiracy.

Well then...

CableZL posted...

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1654508670527455232?s=46

One of the jurors did an interview and gave some insight to why Pezzola wasn't found guilty for seditious conspiracy.

jesus these mofos get off for the most shitty reasons hello they tried to overthrow democracy smarts has nothing to do with cult mentality

CADE_FOSTER posted...

jesus these mofos get off for the most shitty reasons hello they tried to overthrow democracy smarts has nothing to do with cult mentality

Not sure about the details of the case but people simply swept up in the furor wouldn't be guilty of seditious conspiracy. I don't know what Pezzola's role was. Maybe was just more opportunistic than conspiratorial.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Not sure about the details of the case but people simply swept up in the furor wouldn't be guilty of seditious conspiracy. I don't know what Pezzola's role was. Maybe was just more opportunistic than conspiratorial.

That's what I was thinking. Pezzola was convicted of the stuff he was caught on video doing. The DoJ had internal messaging proving the seditious conspiracy charge for the others. That's how they got proud boys leader Enrique Tarrio on that charge even though he wasn't at the capitol at all that day.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23800942-804-official-jury-verdict

The actual verdict form is available now

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Just because they're proud boys and just because they were at 1/6 doesn't mean we should make assumptions about their guilt without even viewing the evidence.

...Again, EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA was viewing the evidence live on TV as it was happening

TMOG posted...

...Again, EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA was viewing the evidence live on TV as it was happening

From perspective of the trial, what everyone watched on TV is not evidence. The only evidence in the trial is what is presented in court during the trial.

CableZL posted...

From perspective of the trial, what everyone watched on TV is not evidence. The only evidence in the trial is what is presented in court during the trial.

And it looks like the evidence presented is enough to say "fuck 'em," so I'm not sure what Pogo's deal is.

CableZL posted...

From perspective of the trial, what everyone watched on TV is not evidence. The only evidence in the trial is what is presented in court during the trial.

Oh, I agree completely

But what Pogo is saying is basically "we don't really know what happened" even though we all absolutely do know what happened because we were watching it happen in real time

DrizztLink posted...

And it looks like the evidence presented is enough to say "f*** 'em," so I'm not sure what Pogo's deal is.

Yep. Pezzola will likely be in prison for a long time. He's one of the ones who has been in a DC jail since he was arrested.

TMOG posted...

...Again, EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA was viewing the evidence live on TV as it was happening

exactly. What else does pongo want!?

DOOM-64 posted...

all I see you doing is going like well achsuallyyy about the proud boys so X

What are you talking about? I haven't said anything about the Proud Boys other than they suck.

Pogo_Marimo posted...

What are you talking about? I haven't said anything about the Proud Boys other than they suck.

waahhhhh wahhhhhh we need even more proof, waahhhhh waahhh

Yeah, Im really not understanding the argument here. Yes, we all watched January 6th as it happened. Trials, however, require specific evidence against each specific defendant to be presented in court.

The DoJ was successful in proving their case against all 5 defendants in this trial. They didnt have enough evidence in the trial to convict Dominic Pezzola of seditious conspiracy, but he WAS convicted on multiple other felony charges. Hell likely get a heavy sentence because of that. The DoJ WAS able to prove their case for seditious conspiracy for the other 4 in large part because they obtained internal messaging from the Proud Boys as well as the videos they took of themselves.

Damn near every capitol rioter charged so far, save a few, were ones who actually went into the capitol that day. Ive reported a few people to the FBI for January 6th myself. For one of them, the agent seemed disappointed and (quite frankly annoyed) that I was reporting someone who didnt actually go into the capitol and just stood outside filming what was going on in the area.

The DoJ was STILL able to prove their case for seditious conspiracy against proud boys leader Enrique Tarrio when he wasnt even in DC that day because they had the groups internal messaging.

From what Ive been reading, Dominic Pezzola had only been a member of the Proud Boys for a couple months as of January 6th. He may have been among the large group that joined after Trumps stand back and stand by comment. As far as I know, the DoJ didnt have any internal messaging that showed Dominic Pezzola was aware of the seditious conspiracy plot.

Do I think Dominic Pezzola was fully aware of it? Yes. However, what we think isnt enough to convict someone in a court of law, nor should it be.

Ive also been frustrated with the light sentences that the vast majority of the January 6th defendants have received. It has been a combination of:

• The DoJ giving most defendants plea deals
• The DoJ not being aware that a defendant entered the capitol until it was too late to submit it and charge them for it
• Judges giving downward departures from the sentencing guidelines
• A few judges handing out weak sentences left and right

However, it looks like the DoJ is swinging for the fences with the people charged with seditious conspiracy. The first one sentenced will be Elmer Stewart Rhodes, the leader of the Oath Keepers on May 25th. The DoJ is asking for a 25 year sentence for him. Thats gonna be the next major event in this saga. That sentencing will likely set the tone for what the other 14 or 15 people charged with seditious conspiracy will get.

They also asked for a 24 year sentence for a capitol rioter who was sentenced to 14 years yesterday. While that guy wasnt convicted of seditious conspiracy, I believe he was handing out weapons for people to use against the police. He also had 38 previous convictions and was already on probation during January 6th.

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yes. Are you? Its your boys the one getting hit lol

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doubling down on what ?

I probably should have checked earlier but:

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What's with all the shitposting alts coming after me? I don't remember shitting in their corn flakes.