Current Events > CMV: jaywalking shoukd only hold a legal charge if something happened

(+) Yeah! (+)

As in, if you walk across an empty street and a cop sees it, nothing shoukd happen.

But if you walk across an active street and, say, a car has to slam on brakes or swerve, you should be able to be charged for endangering drivers.

If I have to slow my car down something happened

The average person is really stupid and a car hitting a pedestrian at 30 mph can easily be fatal.

unless we are looking to kill off stupid people, bad idea.

'Jaywalking' isn't a crime in a sensible country.

If it is safe to cross, you should be able to cross wherever you like.

RuneterranSnap posted...

As in, if you walk across an empty street and a cop sees it, nothing shoukd happen.

But if you walk across an active street and, say, a car has to slam on brakes or swerve, you should be able to be charged for endangering drivers.

thats actually a different infraction. Either pedestrian in the roadway, or some from of road obstruction. Jaywalking is clearly defined as crossing outside a marked crosswalk

Irony posted...

If I have to slow my car down something happened

Did you even read the OP

I mean, that's how it's treated anyway >_> Cops don't give a fuck about jay walking, but you can use it to your defense if you auto-ped someone by mistake

Funkydog posted...

'Jaywalking' isn't a crime in a sensible country.

If it is safe to cross, you should be able to cross wherever you like.

Yup yup. Only place I'm ok with it is somewhere like a highway where it's essentially never ok to cross.

The_Critic posted...

The average person is really stupid and a car hitting a pedestrian at 30 mph can easily be fatal.

unless we are looking to kill off stupid people, bad idea.

This isn't to make jaywalking more common, nor would it likely have such an effect. This is to stop bad cops from using it to harass innocent people.

That's how it is in California now, as of the beginning of the year.

Sure, as long as any drivers that hit them are immune to any lawsuits or charges. If they werent speeding or anything

TendoDRM posted...

That's how it is in California now, as of the beginning of the year.

Nice

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Essentially it's used when cops want to harass someone, or when they have no actual crimes to press charges with, similar to resisting arrest.

Jaywalking is a "preventative crime" as in you punish the person for the infraction as a deterrent BEFORE they become a danger.

You're basically saying that running a red light or a stop sign shouldn't be be a crime if there's no other cars on the road, since "nothing happened".

thronedfire2 posted...

Sure, as long as any drivers that hit them are immune to any lawsuits or charges. If they werent speeding or anything

If you're not speeding and you make a reasonable effort to avoid them you should absolutely not be charged.

RuneterranSnap posted...

This isn't to make jaywalking more common, nor would it likely have such an effect. This is to stop bad cops from using it to harass innocent people.

Good intents often have unintended consequences.

US has over 7500 annual pedestrian deaths already. If pedestrians are allowed to cross at places other than crosswalks, I cant imagine a world without increased incidents.

jaywalking should be permitted as long as you don't leave a shopping cart in the middle of the road

The_Critic posted...

Good intents often have unintended consequences.

US has over 7500 annual pedestrian deaths already. If pedestrians are allowed to cross at places other than crosswalks, I cant imagine a world without increased incidents.

Then you're not trying very hard as most people understand jaywalking is not automatically dangerous, can be done safely, and should not be a crime when done intelligently.

Those stupid people you mention will not have their behavior changed at all.

Funkydog posted...

'Jaywalking' isn't a crime in a sensible country.

If it is safe to cross, you should be able to cross wherever you like.

That's part of the problem though. I live in Los Angeles and so many dumbasses decide to run across the street because they see an "opening" but cars are going faster than they seem to realize.

I've seen so many near accidents because of it. Not from cars almost hitting the pedestrians, but from cars almost getting rear ended because they stop suddenly to avoid hitting a pedestrian.

NoxObscuras posted...

That's part of the problem though. I live in Los Angeles and so many dumbasses decide to run across the street because they see an "opening" but cars are going faster than they seem to realize.

I've seen so many near accidents because of it. Not from cars almost hitting the pedestrians, but from cars almost getting rear ended because they stop suddenly to avoid hitting a pedestrian.

And in LA that's a crime, even after enacting the idea I suggested.

The_Critic posted...

Good intents often have unintended consequences.

US has over 7500 annual pedestrian deaths already. If pedestrians are allowed to cross at places other than crosswalks, I cant imagine a world without increased incidents.

Those deaths are mostly a result of poor infrastructure like no sidewalks and dangerous roads that force pedestrians into car spaces. Increasingly large vehicles are also a part of this. SUV crashes in general are up because these unwieldy vehicles are just more dangerous. Mental health of drivers matters, too.

Jaywalking laws don't alleviate any of those problems and usually just impose another burden on pedestrians who are already at the mercy of a transportation system that has more or less agreed to sacrifice them for cars.

NoxObscuras posted...

That's part of the problem though. I live in Los Angeles and so many dumbasses decide to run across the street because they see an "opening" but cars are going faster than they seem to realize.

I've seen so many near accidents because of it. Not from cars almost hitting the pedestrians, but from cars almost getting rear ended because they stop suddenly to avoid hitting a pedestrian.

That happens in the UK as well, but we still dont give cars ultimate authority of the roads. You can teach people to safely cross as well.

People are going to be morons no matter what you make the law in the end, so why punish the group that is vulnerable in the situation?

Jaywalking laws, much like speed cameras, exist to make money and nothing else. They dont improve safety and arent intended to.

You're all basically asking "Shouldn't running a red light be legal if no cars are coming?"

bigblu89 posted...

You're all basically asking "Shouldn't running a red light be legal if no cars are coming?"

No we aren't. At all. Because unlike running a red light, there is frequently good cause for jaywalking, ie "we need to cross and there's no marked space nearby".

And for those rare instances where there is a good need to run a red light? It's usually protected under the law, as it should be.

RuneterranSnap posted...

No we aren't. At all. Because unlike running a red light, there is frequently good cause for jaywalking, ie "we need to cross and there's no marked space nearby".

And for those rare instances where there is a good need to run a red light? It's usually protected under the law, as it should be.

Jaywalking is the act of pedestrians walking in or crossing a roadway in a way that contravenes traffic regulations. Traffic regulations in 99.9% of instances is that you cross at the corner or crossway of a street if there is no designated crosswalk.

"I crossed here because I didn't want to walk a quarter mile to the end of the block" is not a valid reason.

Like I said earlier, Jaywalking is a "preventative crime", as in you punish the person for the infraction as a deterrent BEFORE they become a danger.

bigblu89 posted...

Like I said earlier, Jaywalking is a "preventative crime", as in you punish the person for the infraction as a deterrent BEFORE they become a danger.

Incorrect. No matter what is claimed, jaywalking as a crime wasnt pushed to help anyone other than the automobile industry and now only serves to just make money for the police/local government etc.

Funkydog posted...

That happens in the UK as well, but we still dont give cars ultimate authority of the roads. You can teach people to safely cross as well.

People are going to be morons no matter what you make the law in the end, so why punish the group that is vulnerable in the situation?

Jaywalking laws, much like speed cameras, exist to make money and nothing else. They dont improve safety and arent intended to.

Oh I'm not saying to punish all jaywalking, period. Like even before California changed the laws on it, I rarely saw people get stopped by police if they jaywalked without causing an issue. It wasn't like New York where they were cracking down hard on it.

I was mostly chiming in on the "if it is safe to cross" part of your statement because so many people in my city don't seem to understand that part of it

Jaywalking enforces itself. There's no need for a law.

Funkydog posted...

Incorrect. No matter what is claimed, jaywalking as a crime wasnt pushed to help anyone other than the automobile industry and now only serves to just make money for the police/local government etc.

Just because you read a Vox article about doesn't make it true. It was a necessary move as automobiles became more and more prevalent in the 1920's and 30s, causing more pedestrian accidents.

Initially seen as a nuisance, cars became the majority. And as with anything, the world caters to the majority.

bigblu89 posted...

Just because you read a Vox article about doesn't make it true. It was a necessary move as automobiles became more and more prevalent in the 1920's and 30s, causing more pedestrian accidents.

Initially seen as a nuisance, cars became the majority. And as with anything, the world caters to the majority.

And yet we arent plagued with a pedestrian death apocalypse in the UK despite no jaywalking laws.

It wasnt and isnt necessary no matter what some claim.

The_Critic posted...

unless we are looking to kill off stupid people, bad idea.

Forest_Temple posted...

well have to do a test run in the red states first

Funkydog posted...

And yet we arent plagued with a pedestrian death apocalypse in the UK despite no jaywalking laws.

It wasnt and isnt necessary no matter what some claim.

US averaged 20 pedestrian deaths a day in 2022, highest it's been in 40 years. They've been on a steady increase since 2009. Jaywalking laws have also being getting more and more laxed as the years go by.

I'm not saying they go hand in hand, as it could be a number of reasons, like people "going green" and walking more. But it is telling that as jaywalking laws get more laxed (or are eliminated altogether) pedestrian fatalities have increased.

If you live in an actual city just fucking cross at the crosswalk.

bigblu89 posted...

US averaged 20 pedestrian deaths a day in 2022, highest it's been in 40 years. They've been on a steady increase since 2009. Jaywalking laws have also being getting more and more laxed as the years go by.

Have they though?

On the other hand, vehicles are being built more and more deadly to pedestrians since 2009, and that's pretty clear in research and testing.

Its obviously contextual. Jaywalking when you can clearly see and hear theres no traffic in either direction? Should be perfectly legal. Jaywalking through busy traffic should still be illegal and punishable if nothing happened

Funkydog posted...

'Jaywalking' isn't a crime in a sensible country.

If it is safe to cross, you should be able to cross wherever you like.

Agreed.

ChocoboMogALT posted...

Have they though?

Have they what? Have jaywalking laws become mare laxed? Yes, they have.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/06/23/these-u-s-communities-are-making-safety-progress-after-jaywalking-reform/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/26/us/california-jaywalking-decriminalized.html

On the other hand, vehicles are being built more and more deadly to pedestrians since 2009, and that's pretty clear in research and testing.

I'm going need your source for that, as everything I read says the opposite is true.

Only thing I've read that supports your claim is that the rise of SUV drivers, which (obviously) cause more harm if they were to struck a pedestrian vs a regular sedan. But all signs point to car designs and safety features contribute to cars being safer for pedestrians now than they've ever been.

bigblu89 posted...

US averaged 20 pedestrian deaths a day in 2022, highest it's been in 40 years. They've been on a steady increase since 2009. Jaywalking laws have also being getting more and more laxed as the years go by.

I'm not saying they go hand in hand, as it could be a number of reasons, like people "going green" and walking more. But it is telling that as jaywalking laws get more laxed (or are eliminated altogether) pedestrian fatalities have increased.

That could well be because cars are getting more deadly and cities arent built around pedestrian safety.

When more and more cars can race to deadly speeds in seconds then you have even less time to react.

Also could just be more people = more deaths.

Wow, I never even knew it was criminal...

Funkydog posted...

That could well be because cars are getting more deadly and cities arent built around pedestrian safety.

When more and more cars can race to deadly speeds in seconds then you have even less time to react.

Also could just be more people = more deaths.

Cellphones.

Funkydog posted...

That could well be because cars are getting more deadly and cities arent built around pedestrian safety.

When more and more cars can race to deadly speeds in seconds then you have even less time to react.

Also could just be more people = more deaths.

On your last point, it wasn't a steady growth. It was actually sharply falling for years until around 2009.

But I agree, it could be a multitude of reasons, but the movement to decriminalize jaywalking is a fairly recent movement. So it has to be considered.

divot1338 posted...

Cellphones.

100% another factor

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/0/AAafKOAAEbPg.jpg

RuneterranSnap posted...

Yup yup. Only place I'm ok with it is somewhere like a highway where it's essentially never ok to cross.

This isn't to make jaywalking more common, nor would it likely have such an effect. This is to stop bad cops from using it to harass innocent people.

This would 100% make jaywalking more common. Im all for the idea, but to think that it wouldnt bump up the numbers (of the current definition of jaywalking) is insanity.

bigblu89 posted...

On your last point, it wasn't a steady growth. It was actually sharply falling for years until around 2009.

But I agree, it could be a multitude of reasons, but the movement to decriminalize jaywalking is a fairly recent movement. So it has to be considered.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/0/AAafKOAAEbPg.jpg

Maybe. I do speak as someone from a country without jaywalking laws so I do have some bias in this in admit. So perhaps we're simply better built around pedestrians in the UK, but no actual idea on that mind.

It definitely would be interesting to see what has actually caused the spike in America though.

jaywalking should never be a crime. pedestrians should have the right of way 100% of the time regardless of anything else. cars ruin cities and there should be a major effort to reduce the number of them

by the way, the term "jaywalking" was literally invented by the automotive industry to shame people for walking. and it worked!

averagejoel posted...

pedestrians should have the right of way 100% of the time regardless of anything else.

No thanks lol

averagejoel posted...

jaywalking should never be a crime. pedestrians should have the right of way 100% of the time regardless of anything else. cars ruin cities and there should be a major effort to reduce the number of them

They do. In a magical place called the sidewalk.

Stay out of the damn road.

divot1338 posted...

They do. In a magical place called the sidewalk.

Stay out of the damn road.

Gee its almost like the road splits the sidewalks apart.

Let me just take a 10 minute detour to wait 5 minutes at an intersection just to still almost get runover anyways when I had the right of way.

In my experience cautious jaywalking is quite often safer then using actual crossings.

bigblu89 posted...

On your last point, it wasn't a steady growth. It was actually sharply falling for years until around 2009.

But I agree, it could be a multitude of reasons, but the movement to decriminalize jaywalking is a fairly recent movement. So it has to be considered.

100% another factor

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/0/AAafKOAAEbPg.jpg

Its almost certainly smartphones to blame as the primary cause.

Pedestrians and especially drivers distracted by them.

Didnt read any other comments, so if this was already addressed im sorry.

Im more worried about the idiots that walk in the street instead of the side walk. The walk in the middle of the road, slowly most of the time.

Its REALLY bad when they do it when im coming home at 4am. They dress in all black on streets with NO street lights. Leaning back and waddling slower than molasses in an igloo. On top of that they dont notice cars or refuse to get out of the way. I dont think a single day has gone by where there hasnt been a hit and run in the city because of this. And i dont understand why they do it.

I even see it in the day where people walk in the main fucking street and not the sidewalk. Its insane.