Board 8 > Tekken Mafia Topic 8 - Heihachi Mishima is dead

(+) Yeah! (+)

ViolentAbacus posted...

I literally got off Plum the moment I could after he claimed a Doctor. If I wanted to be opportunistic I could have stayed on him easily. VERY easily. You were on him, Lopen was on him, and IGCD was on him by proxy. I had no reason to hop off when I did if I were trying to be opportunistic.

Secondly,

I mean you jumped on plum early when a number of people were suspecting him before he claimed doctor. Of course you jumped off after he claimed, it would have been suicidal to stay on him

and yes I know you have gotten some heat for that (I was the first to bring it up, after all) but that's not the only reason you look scummy

ViolentAbacus posted...

This claim was my initial thought that Corrik made more sense as a backup in general to MZero's general backupness. It wasn't totally accurate, but I still feel death delayer is still a backup that makes more sense than a just all around backup

...how is death delayer a backup

MZero posted...

I mean you jumped on plum early when a number of people were suspecting him before he claimed doctor. Of course you jumped off after he claimed, it would have been suicidal to stay on him

and yes I know you have gotten some heat for that (I was the first to bring it up, after all) but that's not the only reason you look scummy

I could have have just jumped on Lopen's argument. I could have found a way. And I'm not denying that's the only reason I look scummy. It's one of the reasons I am okay with being lynched, I know I've been scummy looking outside that. Town is ahead. I am vanilla. I am inactive outside work hours generally. It just really peeves me that the reason everyone talks about (today) is because I couldn't fake claim. I prefer Lea's argument of me hopping off Ulti early.

MZero posted...

...how is death delayer a backup

It's not exactly a backup, but basically a (much) weaker doctor. And I'd believe that being an option over a "choose any flipped person available"

Mzero, did you get to pick what power you got or were you just given the first power that flipped?

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Mzero, did you get to pick what power you got or were you just given the first power that flipped?

I was able to choose

ViolentAbacus posted...

I could have have just jumped on Lopen's argument. I could have found a way. And I'm not denying that's the only reason I look scummy. It's one of the reasons I am okay with being lynched, I know I've been scummy looking outside that. Town is ahead. I am vanilla. I am inactive outside work hours generally. It just really peeves me that the reason everyone talks about (today) is because I couldn't fake claim. I prefer Lea's argument of me hopping off Ulti early.

It's not exactly a backup, but basically a (much) weaker doctor. And I'd believe that being an option over a "choose any flipped person available"

I mean, I would hope you believe that considering he already flipped. Either way, that's not what a back up is. I have the full powers of whatever role I back up, not a weaker version

##unvote
Stupid me didn't realize that the page had changed. "Huh, it's been remarkably dead for a few hours." Happy Easter, by the way. I'm gonna idly do some PoE reading overnight, methinks.

Happy Easter as well

Mzero can you tell us your thought process in backing up cop? Did you consider waiting for a different townrole as well?
Just want to get in your head here.

htaeD posted...

Happy Easter as well

Mzero can you tell us your thought process in backing up cop? Did you consider waiting for a different townrole as well?
Just want to get in your head here.

I didn't really consider waiting. Isquen should be drawing protection every night so I don't think he will ever die. He should also be watching one of the protective roles, so scum can't really kill there, either. (They did end up killing Corrik and we saw how well that went) So I thought there was a good chance scum would kill me before any other town power because Isquen was unlikely to watch me, and there was definitely at least one more guilty scanning scum (possibly two). Plus I thought testing EDumey was a good idea

Well those are at least logical reasons that I could see a backup make.

Hm
Guess I will have to fall back on rereading when I get the time.

Cop+Watcher+Doctor+death delayer vs only 1 strongman still makes backup hard to believe.

Honestly doctor feels the most out of place if I were completely blind to anything that went on in the game. But 3 scanners, a way to delay death(counters strongman), and only 1 strongman definitely feels like possibly too much.

it's weird that you left out BP

Also backup makes a lot of sense with two scum teams because town power can get mowed down very quickly. If it was two power roles that got killed night 1 instead of two vanillas things look a lot different (also if we didn't lynch scum every day and eliminate one of the teams very quickly)

Its true that things might have gone way worse for us if Ulti hadnt melted down and/or we didnt massclaim (sorta)

MZero posted...

it's weird that you left out BP

BP doesn't involve keeping scanners alive.

htaeD posted...

Its true that things might have gone way worse for us if Ulti hadnt melted down and/or we didnt massclaim (sorta)

Ideal scenario would have been Lopen claim(Since he was outed to scum) and Isquen keep watcher in his pocket. Don't think we really gained anything from the mass.

red13n posted...

Ideal scenario would have been Lopen claim(Since he was outed to scum) and Isquen keep watcher in his pocket. Don't think we really gained anything from the mass.

There is a decent chance I die in this scenario

Also, looking over the posts since the start of the day

I think Mzero has fallen into the classic scum trap where you forget you still need to pretend to play mafia.

Compare the Mzero posts with the death posts. Although the death posts are fairly shallow, he makes some observations about if a godfather exists and what that might mean.

I dont think Mzero has made a single post indicating he is even trying to figure out who the last scum is yet. Every post he has made has been defensive about himself or factual in nature I did this thing. You did this thing as opposed to exploratory

For a point in Mzero's favor, it really sucks to hold onto backup in a use it or lose it scenario, speaking from experience. Town backup isn't unheard of, after all.

Maybe we should look instead upon who as a person would be the most stubborn to drag this out. In no particular order, discounting all prior voting experience, and rounding down/leaving myself out of it because duh, half the playing field is:

Death
Red
Lea
IGCD

Of that batch, which one would be most likely to fight tooth and nail for a lost cause?

Oh good, we've gotten to the part where you decide I'm scum and just twist everything to fit that conclusion. It's Eff 2021 mafia all over again

I think after four days in a row on scumlynch there is no need to get pissy if we whiff one.

I'm rereading day 1 and 2 again in particular. Who distanced themselves from Ulti? More tellingly, in the following days, who didnt want to touch hb or peaf?

I'm thinking too much. No malice intended, but backup in this case would also mean too much protection with death delayer/claimed BP/claimed doctor.

Sorry if true, mzero, you got damned by giving a scan result after I'd already claimed my visit.
##vote: MZero

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


You and plum have played more than enough mafia to know that someone defending themself instead of scum hunting is not a scum tell and never has been. People don't like getting mislynched

We've gotten to the point where you're calling me scum for not finding scum in the first 12 hours of a day when most of the game was asleep. Meanwhile you have ICGD doing nothing but assembling a claims list but that's okay because you've already decided I'm the last scum.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying you've made up your mind and whatever I do is going to seem scummy to you. I do think you're town because I've seen you do this before as town. I guess you could be faking it though

MZero posted...

You and plum have played more than enough mafia to know that someone defending themself instead of scum hunting is not a scum tell and never has been. People don't like getting mislynched

We've gotten to the point where you're calling me scum for not finding scum in the first 12 hours of a day when most of the game was asleep. Meanwhile you have ICGD doing nothing but assembling a claims list but that's okay because you've already decided I'm the last scum.

There is a massive difference between defending yourself in a do or die and defending yourself in a nearly unlosable situation

Like if this was lylo then your behavior would make sense. You start getting the "My lynch is going to throw the game. This is bad" Vibe

But if you are town then we can mislynch twice in a row. We don't even need to lynch correctly tomorrow! You could be town, death could be town and we would still be in decent shape because Isquen and I are basically confirmed town and immortal and I think Red is solid town both because I've like his posts and his role makes sense.

You are acting like this is lylo which makes no sense from a town perspective

Lets put it this way

Mzero you are dead. I am voting you.

Given that you are town who do we kill tomorrow

masterplum posted...

There is a massive difference between defending yourself in a do or die and defending yourself in a nearly unlosable situation

I mean you can also look at it as we are in a nearly unlosable situation so why would I be rushing to find scum

and you guys are acting like I've been sitting here defending myself for 40 hours. It had been like 12 and no one was even around most of the time

masterplum posted...

Lets put it this way

Mzero you are dead. I am voting you.

Given that you are town who do we kill tomorrow

I still think Abacus is the scummiest but given my scan I would say lynch IGCD

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I mean you can do it whenever you want, but my point is you're ignoring the fact that IGCD has literally shared zero reads and doesn't have a reason like focusing on defending himself to justify it. You're also ignoring the fact that I did explain why I find Abacus scummy and the only thing stopping me from pushing him is the fact that I scanned him innocent, which even if I'm not going to try and get him lynched it's still a read

and on that note, why would I have faked a scan on Abacus anyway? I could have easily faked a scan on death or IGCD because I didn't have a read on them instead of taking the guy I was pushing two days ago off the table and forcing me to actually look somewhere else when I had a decent platform to keep pushing Abacus. This is all wifom of course but it would just be creating extra work for myself

MZero posted...

I would say lynch IGCD

I am much more on board with this at this point than having to defend myself or actually make an effort later when my lynch might actually lose us the game.

MZero posted...

ignoring the fact that IGCD has literally shared zero reads

I think the fact that I offered up my life for Ulti, shows I was reading him town.

I followed Lopen which shows I read him town.

I've also pointed out that I think Reds claim of being BP is the claim that doesn't fit, which should be pretty easy to deduce I read him as scum.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I think the fact that I offered up my life for Ulti, shows I was reading him town.

I followed Lopen which shows I read him town.

I've also pointed out that I think Reds claim of being BP is the claim that doesn't fit, which should be pretty easy to deduce I read him as scum.

Sorry I meant today specifically

you haven't shared a read yet today, which means you must be scum with me. I think we can still win bud

MZero posted...

Sorry I meant today specifically

you haven't shared a read yet today, which means you must be scum with me. I think we can still win bud

My read of Red comes from today.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I've also pointed out that I think Reds claim of being BP is the claim that doesn't fit, which should be pretty easy to deduce I read him as scum.

that's more setup meta than a read tbh but fair enough

Okay got a chance to look back at day2

I think Lea comes off looking the best there since she seemed to earnestly want to help Lopen push HB near the end of the day. Granted her vote did not last long since Lopen immediately voted her again and she went back to Kirby.

IGCD also joined the brief HB lynch but his gimmick of sheeping votes was already established and he like instantly unvoted anyway since he did not want to vote with Kirby.

Red mentioned HB once and negatively compared him to Abacus (which does not say much at this point) After that he was gone for a bit, missing the HB momentum and only came back to seemingly shake his head at my sudden train starting. His preferred lynch was Kirby throughout I can only presume.

Speaking of which, Abacus complained that Lea was focused on him instead of HB right after that Red post. If scum then Abacus tried to save himself by selling out a scumpartner, though just a little. He focused on Wallz after this point regardless.

Mzero due to his timezone could not be there.

This is only the first moment I wanted to to re-evaluate, but so far.

Jesus died for our sins

Anyway quick question Lea, while I am moving to the next big thing.

Before Kirby flipped
Did you think HB was on Peafs side or on Wallz and Ulti's side?

Thank you.
You were one of the few to still mention HBday3 before EDumey replaced in, so you're alright in my books

Now the reactions to EDumey's claim were less accepting than I remembered. Its more that everyone just planned to let HB prove his power first and also Kirby kinda looked worse anyway.

Red called HB's role a scumrole immediately, but since he claims to be BP it makes sense that he would want to counter it. I suppose it could be a twofolded longcon to make sure one of the two looks good since the two roles fill the same niche. But thats just me thinking too much...I think. Red is not on the top of my suspect list (Plus EDumey came into day3 swinging at Red)

IGCD only started to worry about the claim once he became aware that Lopen had already claimed cop day3. He did not say much else about it. Typical cantsaymuchaboutthis IGCD stuff.

Abacus believed both Red and Plums claims and thought it made sense to work with Corrik as a pseudo backup. (for some reason this is a repeated theory, but I dont see it). He instead suspected Mzero and Dumey to be the questionable claims. He looks decent here, if not minimal in content.

The only one kind to Dumey's claim was Mzero, and that seemed to be more a joke since he just wanted the flavor character to be in the game. The weakest reaction still though.

Mzero would be asleep again by now huh

I think Im just going to vote him. He makes the most sense. It really feels like he doesnt want to be here which would make sense if he is in a terrible position

Its possible he is town I suppose, but everything he has done this game, from leaving his vote on me and leaving (I am pretty sure his time stamps updated after I claimed) to now indicates he isnt trying to catch scum.

All right lets do this

##Vote:Mzero

If its not Mzero its going to be time to buckle up