Current Events > Does Superman not have his own Venom/Black Adam/etc.?

(+) Yeah! (+)

All of this talk about The Rock pushing for Black Adam to fight Superman got me thinking. It's not uncommon for popular heroes to have a rival or villain who gets their own spinoff at some point.

Spider-Man has Venom.
Mario has Wario.
Sonic has Knuckles.
Shazam has Black Adam.

It seems odd that Superman of all people is without a marketable equal-yet-opposite rival. I guess Batman doesn't really have one either.

Lex?

Lex Luthor.

Batman has Joker.

Evil counterpart?

Bizzaro

Batman's evil counterpart is usually considered to be Ra's al ghul

Bizarro Superman
no wait
Fuckin Zodd lol

its definitely Lex Luthor.

Well in that one movie Batman had Owlman and that was neat.
I think Lex should count for Superman. Superman wins the fight most of the time but Superman wants to live like a normal person which means he has to act within parameters where Lex has all the control.

I guess the Joker has had his own comic book and his own movie.

Lex Luthor though? I can't see DC throwing money at "Lex" and hoping for it to sell. What would it even be about?

dameon_reaper posted...

its definitely Lex Luthor.

Quite literally, Luther is essentially Supe's personality but with a massive ego overload

That's cuz he's got kryptonite, which no one ekse has

If they made a movie about Cyborg Superman would people know it was meant to be a villain or would they think it was Superman with robotic enhancements?

FortuneCookie posted...

I guess the Joker has had his own comic book and his own movie.

Lex Luthor though? I can't see DC throwing money at "Lex" and hoping for it to sell. What would it even be about?

Could be about him becoming president, or giving himself powers, or any number of things. He's an amazing villain

As much as I'd hate to say it I'd say Shadow has become that for Sonic more than Knuckles.

For Superman I'd say the closest comparison is the Bizarro. While it isn't really the same thing as the others you listed the bizarro concept in general has been referenced and used quite a lot.

I suppose the concept of evil or more ruthless Superman type characters is super common as well.

I guess the unique thing about Superman is that these are concepts that are used often outside of the IP itself. So there's no real reason to spin-off a gritty story or a specific character.

FortuneCookie posted...

I guess the Joker has had his own comic book and his own movie.

Lex Luthor though? I can't see DC throwing money at "Lex" and hoping for it to sell. What would it even be about?

I would love a movie where we see the world how Lex views it. He would be a great hero trying to save humanity. Superman is a sinister alien invader that he has to stop. At the end of the movie, we suddenly get pulled out of Lex's perspective and see what is really happening as Superman stops him

KarsaToblakai posted...

Could be about him becoming president, or giving himself powers, or any number of things. He's an amazing villain

I mean, he has made a suit like Batman did. In fact, he was part of the Justice League awhile back in new 52. It was back when Earth 3 started an attack and a few of the villains were fighting back. Luthor was one of them. There was not enough of him in the Justice League comics. I'd love to see him as an anti-hero

The DCEU literally started with Superman fighting his own evil counterpart lol

Theres a bunch of different Supermen.

Bizarro Superman comes to mind would be a great horror movie

Zikten posted...

I would love a movie where we see the world how Lex views it. He would be a great hero trying to save humanity. Superman is a sinister alien invader that he has to stop. At the end of the movie, we suddenly get pulled out of Lex's perspective and see what is really happening as Superman stops him

I think it was All Star Superman that did it best, Lex straight up won and got himself powers, only for his brain now being able to see how miniscule and meaningless his rivalry is and break down

A_Good_Boy posted...

The DCEU literally started with Superman fighting his own evil counterpart lol

I'm referring to characters who are marketable in spinoff or stand alone titles, not just individuals with comparable abilities to the hero.

I think the unique thing that a lot of people are missing here is that those rival characters listed (other than Knuckles because no one cares about Knuckles Chaotix) became popular enough to become lead characters of their things. Which I don't think has really happened with a similar Superman character. The spin-offs tend to be stuff like Supergirl and Superboy right?

For Batman I feel like the best "rival" character would've been Jason Todd's Red Hood, but they've kissed and made up by now so meh. Catwoman sort of works too.

Superman, yeah I guess Zod would be the closest thing, in terms of powerset and opposing ideology. Though Manchester Black does the opposing ideology thing too and can probably out-charisma Zod if someone had to make a movie about one of them.

FortuneCookie posted...

I'm referring to characters who are marketable in spinoff or stand alone titles, not just individuals with comparable abilities to the hero.

Zod was literally the main character in Gods and Monsters.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Zod was literally the main character in Gods and Monsters.

What was that?

A_Good_Boy posted...

Zod was literally the main character in Gods and Monsters.

That animated movie? I thought that was Zod's son. Isnt Gods and Monsters about Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman except they are different people? Superman is Zod's son and was raised on earth by immigrants from Mexico I think. Wonder Woman I don't remember but she is just some other Amazon. And Batman is some vampire type guy I think

We only see Zod in the opening right before Krypton explodes

Kim_Seong-a posted...

For Batman I feel like the best "rival" character would've been Jason Todd's Red Hood, but they've kissed and made up by now so meh. Catwoman sort of works too.

That also applies to Spider-Man and Venom. They haven't been enemies for a very long time now and will help each other out every so often.

FortuneCookie posted...

What was that?

It was a movie about an alternate version of the Justice League where Batman was a vampire, Superman was Zod and he was raised by Mexican migrant workers instead of the Kents, and I think Wonder Woman is Big Barda.

FortuneCookie posted...

What was that?

An animated movie set in a different universe where Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and Diana of Themescerya (pretty sure that's spelled wrong) don't exist

A_Good_Boy posted...

It was a movie about an alternate version of the Justice League where Batman was a vampire, Superman was Zod and he was raised by Mexican migrant workers instead of the Kents, and I think Wonder Woman is Big Bertha.

That's interesting. I'm surprised I haven't heard of it. I'm assuming it's animated, right? That doesn't disqualify it. A spinoff is a spinoff.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I honestly don't get it. By going with the topic title, it feels like those who are arch nemesis, although I'd say Green Goblin is more spider-man's arch villain than Venom. But you think of Venom when you think of Spidey...and when I think of Superman, i think of Lex.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Superman was Zod

Zod dies when Krypton explodes. What happens is he puts his DNA into the machine that makes babies, amd makes a baby with Superman's mom. The resulting child is from the same mother but a different father. So Superman is not the Son of Kal El. He is the Son of Zodd. Then we see Zodd, Kal El and Superman's mom all die in the aftermath as the baby shoots into space. Its disturbing because its kinda like rape, what Zodd does

FortuneCookie posted...

That's interesting. I'm surprised I haven't heard of it. I'm assuming it's animated, right? That doesn't disqualify it. A spinoff is a spinoff.

There were a few trailers for it that featured Superman and Batman that were pretty noteworthy that were released a few years ago. I'd post them but I'm not sure what is or isn't official and I don't want to get hit for spoilers.

The sheer disrespect.

Nobody mentioned Ultraman yet.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kal-Il_(Earth_3)

DrizztLink posted...

The disrespect.

Nobody mentioned Ultraman yet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman_(DC_Comics)

I sorta mentioned Earth 3, although I didn't really mention Ultraman specifically or in the context of this topic lol

dameon_reaper posted...

I honestly don't get it. By going with the topic title, it feels like those who are arch nemesis, although I'd say Green Goblin is more spider-man's arch villain than Venom. But you think of Venom when you think of Spidey...and when I think of Superman, i think of Lex.

Green Goblin is more just an outright villain.

There was a period of time where superheroes got a villain or rival who weren't all bad. They became popular as the audience of the time wanted more darker and serious stuff and often more gritty spin-offs would be made from there. Venom overall is probably the most famous example of this.

I think the OP is more referring to characters like that.

FortuneCookie posted...

What was that?

Its an animated movie where Superman is Lor-Zod, son of General Zod. Batman is Dr. Kirk Langstrom otherwise known as the villain Man-Bat in comics. Wonder Woman is Bekka, wife of Orion of the New Gods. Basically alternate universe Justice League.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Green Goblin is more just an outright villain.

There was a period of time where superheroes got a villain or rival who weren't all bad. They became popular as the audience of the time wanted more darker and serious stuff and often more gritty spin-offs would be made from there. Venom overall is probably the most famous example of this.

I think the OP is more referring to characters like that.

Then Lex Luthor is perfect since he was not always the villain.

DrizztLink posted...

The sheer disrespect.

Nobody mentioned Ultraman yet.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kal-Il_(Earth_3)

DC had an Ultraman two years before Tsubaraya Productions had an Ultraman?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/5/AAdlC_AAETXh.jpg

dameon_reaper posted...

Then Lex Luthor is perfect since he was not always the villain.

Is Lex Luthor popular enough to be in his own stuff?

I think it would be neat if he had his own movie like Joker but I dunno if it would be anywhere near as popular.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Is Lex Luthor popular enough to be in his own stuff?

I think it would be neat if he had his own movie like Joker but I dunno if it would be anywhere near as popular.

Sadly nothing will be more popular than Batman or Batman related things. But let's be honest, half of what made up of Marvel's movies were characters that the public didn't give two shits about. Nobody knew what Guardians of the Galaxy was.

It would be high stakes to make a Lex Luthor movie but he's still well known and if he's done right, the right people will love it.

Yeah part of the reason that there isn't really a Superman villain/rival on the same level is that they don't really try to. Superman himself hasn't really had a super popular movie since like the 70s. So what chance do his villains and rivals have?

But yeah you look at Joker and Harley Quinn spun-off from Batman and you look at Venom and The Punisher spun-off from Spider-man and nothing comes close.

He does have several villains popular and notable enough to pop up elsewhere in other stories though. Just not really ones that have the appeal to stand on their own as a marketable protagonist in the same way as those ones.

Lex and maybe Lobo probably fit the bill the most, but I'm not sure either of them could be the "main protagonist" of movie while also drawing the appeal of the masses that aren't that big into comics.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I think the unique thing that a lot of people are missing here is that those rival characters listed (other than Knuckles because no one cares about Knuckles Chaotix) became popular enough to become lead characters of their things. Which I don't think has really happened with a similar Superman character. The spin-offs tend to be stuff like Supergirl and Superboy right?

While the topic title is a bit confusing, I think this is the focus of the topic.

The question is if Superman has a rival/nemesis who has become popular enough to spawn their own spinoff series. As far as I can tell, there isn't any.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Fuckin Zodd lol

kneel before Zodd.

there was a user who used to go to CE. who had that name.

Bizarro got his own DCYOU comic which is fucking amazing and I highly recommend everyone read it. It's only 6 issues. It's about Jimmy taking Bizarro to "Bizarro America" aka Canada.

Lately he's been doing some of the antihero stuff alongside Jason Todd.