Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 11: A Few Photons Never Hurt Anybody

(+) Yeah! (+)

Boothbys body lay bare on the floor, the poor old man had been murdered by his friends, all he had wanted to do was help those in need. The travelers were distraught and reasonably so. The doctor among them more than the others.
How could we be so careless? I cant be a part of this, this is not what my programing was brought online for. I took an oath damn it an oath! I swear this oath by Apollo Physician, by Asclepius, by Health... and by all the gods and goddesses: In whatsoever place that I enter, I will enter to help the sick and heal the injured, and I will do no harm. I cant be expected to make these ethical deci deciss decii

The rest of the crew looked on shocked as the doctor began glitching and shifting in and out of space. In a snap he was gone.

UltimaterializerX has been killed he was The Doctor, Town Doctor

You are The Doctor, an Emergency Medical Holographic Program or EMH for short. It was never intended for you to be active full time as you are just for emergencies but situations necessitated such events. Originally you were stuck to the confines of the Sickbay but a chance run-in with future technology provided you with a mobile emitter allowing you to move freely among the ship and even on away missions. Over the years youd expand your programing, becoming a great Opera singer and even finding time to fall in love.

As The Doctor each night you may pick a target and prevent them from being killed by any standard killing action. As a hologram you also have a 1 use bulletproof that works the same way as your own Doc Save, this will damage your holo-emitter and you will be susceptible to any future killing action.

"Sticks and stones won't break my bones, so you can imagine how I feel about being called names."

You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

Living Long:
1- ctes
2- EDumey
3- Han
4- JC
5- Lea
6- PunishedBen (BCT)
7- Sultan

Prospering:
LD1 - SirChris - Harry Mudd, Scum Hammerer/Double Voter
KN1 - Death - Ensign Harry Kim, Town Vanilla
LD2 - Sheep - Kasidy Yates, Town Vanilla
KN2 - Crescent - Elim Garak, Town Miller Guilty Cop
LD3 - Isquen - Sylvia Tilly, Town Vanilla
LD4 - wallmasterz - Boothby, Town Vanilla
KN4 - UltimaterializerX - The Doctor, Town Doctor

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch

Day is starting a little early but will still end on Saturday March 18th at 8pm.

Meow

Lmeowao even

Most important NOTICE. THIS IS MOST LIKELY MYLO. If you are town, please do not vote willy nilly as one wrong vote could end the game

Please please please don't vote. Unless it's for Han lol.

It looks like since Ulti isn't BP that scum intentionally didn't shoot last night. Which is why I think it's MYLO now

Actually, if they shot and there was 3 scum then game would be over right now So no shooting wasn't an option?

Still there could easily be three scum left so be careful (unless you're voting for Han)

Im garbage at mafia clearly (sorry Wallz) but I rescanned Ben and he didnt move last night.

Ill be honest I was sitting here thinking it was 3+1 and Ulti was some BP doc independent and I didnt want to raise that possibility because I wanted Ulti to save me every night.

What Im wondering is why scum shot Ulti a second time if they failed N3. Would they assume one-use BP? And they couldnt have used a scan on him N3 because its fairly clear they tried to shoot him?

So. First of all really sucks to lose Ulti but is expected.

I am disappointed JC left his vote on a guy he scanned as not moving, but I did read through JC's claim on day 2 and very much think he is town. Plus we have the whole confirmation that he scanned Crescent night 1, who scum likely tried to shoot.

So JC and Ctes I still completely 100% think are town. Sultan as well.

Today is just a repeat of how I already felt yesterday.

Chaeix posted...

Im garbage at mafia clearly (sorry Wallz) but I rescanned Ben and he didnt move last night.

Ill be honest I was sitting here thinking it was 3+1 and Ulti was some BP doc independent and I didnt want to raise that possibility because I wanted Ulti to save me every night.

What Im wondering is why scum shot Ulti a second time if they failed N3. Would they assume one-use BP? And they couldnt have used a scan on him N3 because its fairly clear they tried to shoot him?

May it be that they just shot at you night 3 and risked it?

Or another possibility is that there are two scum and they have been holding an extra kill the whole game. That would allow them to no kill night 3.

In fact an extra kill in the tank sounds the most likely and is why today should be treated like Mylo.

Anyway, it is obvious to me that Han is scum. Followed by Lea and Dumey. I'm not sure how obvious it is to everyone else. Apparently I didnt do as good a job at convincing as I would have liked yesterday

Here's my next question. Dumey, what the hell did you and Lea talk about last night? Like, just post the full transcripts. Please. Or i will assume you're lying about the whole thing

EDumey posted...

I do wonder even if Sheep flips scum, if that means that the remaining scum is fairly insulated like in the Crescent/Han/Lia group that everyone seems to accept as town. I'm not actually pushing suspicion right now, but I feel like the current complete lack of anyone wanting to move this lynch at the moment means scum is comfortable one way or the other. Who benefits the most from being on this Sheep lynch if there's a bus involved? Wallz/Ulti/Sultan being the latest three to jump on? I don't really see Wallz as a player who would come in and bus that hard thinking he could pull off a win in endgame.

Here's a quote from the end of day 2. Why have Lea in this statement if you had already had Lea with you in neighbor chat and supposedly thought she was town at this time?

Sheep007 posted...

That said, honestly, of all of the people that voted Chris I think I'm feeling the worst about Han? I feel like a dickhead for even saying this and I know I've butted heads with him a lot this game, and I really like the dude (which makes it feel more dickish). That said... he just doesn't feel right. I can't explain it in the slightest and I wish I could, I'm going to try and reread and pinpoint it again because I've felt this all game, but if you take anything from my flip, I'd like it to be that y'all should look harder at Han. He is possibly the most eminently capable of lynching Scum Chris and regardless of what happens this game, he can't be allowed to go free of suspicion going forwards. If it makes y'all wanna kill me more, whatever, I don't think I'm likely to find a silver bullet to save myself but I think I need to get that out there. If only because I'll absolutely fuckin kick myself if I get into the dead chat and it turns out I was right on it and didn't make it eminently clear. Please just consider it and don't give him a free pass - and please try and focus on people other than like, MZero and Dumey tomorrow. I'm a lot to blame for today stagnating and I coulda done more (a lot of it is schedule enforced but I can always do better), but our advantage is absolutely boned if we have another day like this.

Also, i guess good job on mega ultra gaslighting me to tell me that Sheep ddint actually suspect Han before he died. Lol

Sheep007 posted...

To elocute a bit more on the matter with a stray thought: I think every single person I remember that Han has majorly suspected this game is either Town or likely Town, except for his very late vote on Chris (which I would like to think about a lil more regarding the whole momentum thing - was Han's best option to vote Chris there considering the way things were swinging?). Scum Han is very hesitant to bus and invite pressure on Scummates who might not be able to cope with it to my memory, but is also willing to go in on them when necessary (I'm thinking of his behaviour in Kingmaker Mafia, and later his feuding with Lopen when he thought it was necessary). If any player in this game is capable of the level of theatre that Han and Chris woulda had to engage in yesterday, to be teammates, it's them.

Freakin spirit animal, man. I wont let your legacy be squandered

And yes he eventuallly got pressured into thinking that suspsecting Han was stupid. But who pressured him into this? Lea.

And in the end he still made a Han tier in his final list and told us to not let him slide by.

Did Ctes roleblock anyone??

Also that Jack doesn't make much sense as town.

Well Walls good job for your first game I think you did pretty well come play again. You were the POE that made sense not to mention some of the thoughts didn't quite add up but hey good job sorry about not moving off.

Anyways.

Han v Ctes seems like what we got today id imagine

I will tell you, after reading day 2, I see so much of Han and Lea shitposting and having a ton of fun all day long. I think their reasons for killing Sheep were well argued. They have been playing comfortably and fully committed to open wolfing by supporting each other the whole game. I think its cool. I think its also very unlikely at this point that one of them is wrong and just letting the other slide by on being nice to them. I think they are both scum.

Unless one of them disagrees! The POE is getting smaller. I'm an evil human being and would still like to see you turn on each other before we lynch you!

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Did Ctes roleblock anyone??

Also that Jack doesn't make much sense as town.

Well Walls good job for your first game I think you did pretty well come play again. You were the POE that made sense not to mention some of the thoughts didn't quite add up but hey good job sorry about not moving off.

Anyways.

Han v Ctes seems like what we got today id imagine

Why specifically VS those two? This could be MYLO so I dont think there is room for us to pit two people against each other and pick a direction. I think you need to have a picture of the whole scum team so that we dont make any mistakes

This means a little less to people that arent me, but if there was any doubt that JC wasnt town, if he's scum he absolutely needs to fake a scan that I moved last night. But instead he says i didnt move

So basically, if you think I am town, JC is town too.

Them 2 are litterally the POE I think.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Them 2 are litterally the POE I think.

Don't forget Lea exists.

And there is nothing preventing Dumey's role from being scum neighborizer. Except that I will reiterate he is the THIRD suspect. I don't know that he can be scum and Lea be town. That would require an extremely risky play.

PunishedBen posted...

Don't forget Lea exists.

And there is nothing preventing Dumey's role from being scum neighborizer. Except that I will reiterate he is the THIRD suspect. I don't know that he can be scum and Lea be town. That would require an extremely risky play.

Hmm yeah that's true can't forget Dumey and Lea.

Outta the 4 what you thinking Ben?

Oh it's absolutely Han > Lea > Dumey

In that order. Everyone else I think is town

And it's not like I'm not thinking of alternatives. I'm constantly questioning myself but everything I've seen points to this and this is my conclusion time and time again

And I want to kill Han today

I mean he had no concern at all or anything to say about Wallz.

At the start of the day, before I pushed the lynch on him, he was arguing that scum is in the claimed power because if all the power is town that would be over powered town (despite not having any idea what scum has)

But then he left both me and Wallz open to lynch because that's his win condition.

I still think it's Ben for what it's worth. I'm unbelievably salty that I felt obligated to move off of Ben to Wallz just because I didn't want Han lynched.

I'm not gonna sit and pretend that I didn't also want Wallz lynched, as I had advocated for it frequently the last couple days, but I still feel like something dirty happened that I didn't get the lynch I actually wanted.

Ulti pointed out at the end of the day that his whole PoE was on the Wallz lynch, but it was the same in reverse for me, my whole PoE was on Han! But with Ulti in fact not being BP like everyone claimed to know about, that means he very likely did save JC, so I don't think JC is scum, as annoying as him basically telling Han to choose Wallz or himself at the end there. And Sultan missing at deadline meant he was just sitting there where we had to vote around his presence.

So that leaves me thinking BCT/Ben, whom I actually provided a play argument for why I wanted BCT lynched, not just PoE, then some combo of Ctes, Sultan, and Han. I still think Lea is town from D1 and our neighbor chats. If she is scum, then I will admit to getting absolutely ran circles around by her in our chat. But I just can't see it.

Gonna be honest, my confidence is a little shattered after whiffing on Isquen and Wallz back to back.

PunishedBen posted...

Here's my next question. Dumey, what the hell did you and Lea talk about last night? Like, just post the full transcripts. Please. Or i will assume you're lying about the whole thing

I specifically can't copy/paste from the discord. I asked SBell about that he directly told us no copy/pasting, so I can't complete that request for you. But we gave little blurbs on every single player remaining and thoughts. We align on a lot, so there's not a lot of back and forth, just us confirming things, and some personal conversation. I think Lea last night at least was a bit more wary of JC because of him forcing Han onto the lynch of someone he scanned as not moving. Like, wouldn't we expect JC to trust his scan a bit more?

But with Ulti's flip I don't think that's as likely, so I'll let her follow up if her mind has changed on that or not.

I also asked her who she thought might be killed. I thought she and I were possibly being kept alive because Ulti was floating us as a potential scum team. I thought Sultan might be the kill because a lot of people seem to not be willing to suspect him. Lea thought one of Sultan or me for similar reasons actually, that not many people had me on their short list.

PunishedBen posted...

Here's a quote from the end of day 2. Why have Lea in this statement if you had already had Lea with you in neighbor chat and supposedly thought she was town at this time?

Also this was me basically posting a footnote that, "If Sheep flips scum, then I'd want to take a closer look at the people I'm currently assuming are town" which included Lea. Sheep did not flip scum, so I never had to follow up on that train of thought. The whole point there in the quoted post though was that I was mentioning people that I and most others thought were town!

Though Ben, you quoting something from around there reminded me of the PoE argument I presented Wallz the next day.

EDumey posted...

Let's look at the votals again.
[7] Sheep - Han, Lea, (Ulti), (BCT), (Sultan), (Wallz), Wallz, Ulti, Sultan, JC, Isquen
Han had explicit reasons for voting Sheep. Lea had explicit reasons for voting Sheep. BCT unvoted earlier on to chase other rabbit holes. You voted because I guess if I'm being charitable, you didn't like that Sheep wasn't defending himself very well or in a town fashion. Ulti is as close to confirmed town as we can get. Sultan had reasons for voting Sheep, though granted I don't think they're as strong, but Sultan has other things going in his favor outside of this context. JC has a claim that we're currently evaluating. And Isquen is also likely scum due to PoE and made a bad unnecessary hammer before day ended naturally.
If it makes you feel better, I will amend my statement to say that Isquen's vote looks worse than yours. But your vote is clearly the other one that stands out as "why is that there?"

Let me frame this another way. There were 11 people alive that could vote for Sheep there. There is most likely 3 scum remaining. We know that one of the votes that wasn't on Sheep was Crescent, who flipped town. Either ALL THREE PEOPLE who did not vote Sheep (Dumey, Ctes, BCT) are scum, or there is at LEAST one scum more likely two, on the Sheep lynch. My PoE leads me to think that is Wallz and Isquen.

I know I'm town, so it still stands to reason that someone on that Sheep lynch was scum. I previously thought it was Wallz and Isquen who had the worst votes on the lynch. But now I'm looking at Han riding the vote the entire day from start to finish, or Sultan jumping on the day that I criticized him of not playing the way I thought of Town Sultan.

This doesn't really change anything, but just interesting that the logic looking at that lynch still applies here. Was Sheep lynched by almost entirely town and that's why the D2 was so dead? Because BCT and Ctes felt zero pressure to post or change anything?

Oh lordy you guys. I'm afraid my faith in Dumey has dwindled.

Because I still suspect you?

EDumey posted...

I also asked her who she thought might be killed. I thought she and I were possibly being kept alive because Ulti was floating us as a potential scum team. I thought Sultan might be the kill because a lot of people seem to not be willing to suspect him. Lea thought one of Sultan or me for similar reasons actually, that not many people had me on their short list.

How does this make any sense as a real conversation? How do neither of you expect Ulti or JC to be the OBVIOUS kills last night? Now it just sounds like you're trying to avoid being in the know about scum's kills.

And you say you thought Sultan was so obvious town he could be last night's kill, but you have him in scum list POE?!?!?!

EDumey posted...

So that leaves me thinking BCT/Ben, whom I actually provided a play argument for why I wanted BCT lynched, not just PoE, then some combo of Ctes, Sultan, and Han.

And then after supposedly thinking those people were going to die, you see that Ulti dies, the one guy supporting me and willing to kill Han last night, and you think that *I* made that kill?

How does killing ulti win ME the game? Ridiculous.

By ridiculous i mean you better see the light right now if you are town lol

Ben do you have no concept of looking outside your own perspective? Me saying that scum could shoot Sultan is from the perspective that I don't know who scum is and anyone could be a target. That has no bearing on who I think is town or scum at that point. I think you're likely scum, but I also would describe you as a very low chance of being night killed, because you are very much a possible lynch target. Same as Ctes.

So yes, there is value in thinking, "Sultan seems to be one of the people the least in Town's line of fire, and so is dangerous to scum to leave around if he's Town, and would be a likely kill. So him NOT dying is a point against him."

Though obviously with Ulti not being BP and dying invalidates that because it's obvious they would kill him if they hadn't previously shot him earlier.

Lea did bring up Ulti as well as a possible kill, but I thought there was no reason to doubt BP still. Call me naive to still believe it, but I thought the chances of scum leaving claimed doctor alive as long as he was so that he was able to potentially block TWO night kills (First one still unconfirmed) was crazier than just thinking he got an insane role and scum wasted a night shooting him.

PunishedBen posted...

And then after supposedly thinking those people were going to die, you see that Ulti dies, the one guy supporting me and willing to kill Han last night, and you think that *I* made that kill?

How does killing ulti win ME the game? Ridiculous.

This is stupid. Scum can't afford to leave the doctor alive. It doesn't matter who support you or doesn't. That's not how scum strategy works. Leaving doctor alive fucks with all your future night actions. You know you can't kill JC. If you hadn't tested Ulti's BP earlier, then you kill him last night.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Wow my entire PoE all magically moving votes together yet again.

Who could have possibly foreseen this

If there's anyone's POE we should be looking at its the guy who died last night and come on, we all witnessed this. Massive push to save Han. If han is town, why dont scum kill Han. Is all of Ulti's POE town? I think not

EDumey posted...

So yes, there is value in thinking, "Sultan seems to be one of the people the least in Town's line of fire, and so is dangerous to scum to leave around if he's Town, and would be a likely kill. So him NOT dying is a point against him."

Weird argument since kills have been the doctor and the Cop...

Dumey are you scum?

All I have to say to Dumey then is "git gud"

Dumey has risen above lea on likely scum, but i believe fully it is all 3 of them now.

Sultan, I'ma need you your help today if you are town lol. We have to outnumber the scumblock 4 to 3 to have any hope of winning.

PunishedBen posted...

If there's anyone's POE we should be looking at its the guy who died last night and come on, we all witnessed this. Massive push to save Han. If han is town, why dont scum kill Han. Is all of Ulti's POE town? I think not

Ben please. Stop to think before you type. This makes no sense.

It was not a "massive push", it was clearly drawn battle lines where Lea and I preferred to lynch you over anyone else, but because of JC and Sultan sitting on Wallz, we either chose to vote Wallz or chose to let Han die. Keeping our votes on Ben there would be the same thing as voting for Han, which it had been WELL established wasn't in our interests.

"If the guy who was almost lynched is Town, why don't scum kill him?" Maybe that's your clue. Maybe all the scum were already on the Han train, and there were no scum left to hammer him?

I cant think of a massiver push than the clearly drawn battle lines. You were all 3 of you synced up to save Han there. it did not seem to matter if it was me or Wallz that died. That is why it was tied 2,2,2 before EoD

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Weird argument since kills have been the doctor and the Cop...

Dumey are you scum?

Sultan. Please read the rest of the post. I explicitly explain why I thought Ulti wasn't going to be targetted. Hence why I was asking about who in the rest of the game would be.

EDumey posted...

Though obviously with Ulti not being BP and dying invalidates that because it's obvious they would kill him if they hadn't previously shot him earlier.

Lea did bring up Ulti as well as a possible kill, but I thought there was no reason to doubt BP still. Call me naive to still believe it, but I thought the chances of scum leaving claimed doctor alive as long as he was so that he was able to potentially block TWO night kills (First one still unconfirmed) was crazier than just thinking he got an insane role and scum wasted a night shooting him.

EDumey posted...

Sultan. Please read the rest of the post. I explicitly explain why I thought Ulti wasn't going to be targetted. Hence why I was asking about who in the rest of the game would be.

The reason I knew Ulti wasnt BP all along is obvious (and yes i stated this right when I came into the game). He does not have any reason to claim that he's BP before getting shot. He only does it to potentially save himself a day by scaring scum into believing it.

Not something I or anyone else would have fell for. Not something i truly believe Dumey falls for, and why I think he is lying right here. But alas

PunishedBen posted...

I cant think of a massiver push than the clearly drawn battle lines. You were all 3 of you synced up to save Han there. it did not seem to matter if it was me or Wallz that died. That is why it was tied 2,2,2 before EoD

Ben, answer this honestly.

Before the end of day, did I make it clear that my lynch priority was Ben > Ctes > Wallz, and I didn't want Han lynched?

Nothing unexpected happened there. I moved from my Number 1 lynch priority, to my number 3, because the alternative was letting someone I thought was town die. There was no "syncing up". You are making up a narrative that there was some coordinated push, when in reality it was people making decisions about their votes at deadline.

You are actively pushing a false narrative.

PunishedBen posted...

The reason I knew Ulti wasnt BP all along is obvious (and yes i stated this right when I came into the game). He does not have any reason to claim that he's BP before getting shot. He only does it to potentially save himself a day by scaring scum into believing it.

Not something I or anyone else would have fell for. Not something i truly believe Dumey falls for, and why I think he is lying right here. But alas

I did think he was lying initially, but after scum apparently used an unblockable on Crescent, and then still chose to not kill Ulti afterwards, and missing their night kill because of it, I thought there was a chance that maybe Ulti did get the bullshit role afterall and Scum wasted a shot on him. I also explained previously that I thought shooting JC was a weird choice for scum to shoot unless they were specifically afraid of his scan catching one of their claimed Vanilla's moving, so I even have posts showing where I thought it was more likely they shot Ulti instead!

EDumey posted...

Ben, answer this honestly.

Before the end of day, did I make it clear that my lynch priority was Ben > Ctes > Wallz, and I didn't want Han lynched?

Nothing unexpected happened there. I moved from my Number 1 lynch priority, to my number 3, because the alternative was letting someone I thought was town die. There was no "syncing up". You are making up a narrative that there was some coordinated push, when in reality it was people making decisions about their votes at deadline.

You are actively pushing a false narrative.

Bro, I'm sure that was your priority. All of those people are town.

Maybe if your confidence is shaken up so much like you say you should throw me a bone then. But you wont. Because that is the list of people you have to consistently suspect.

I'd say the only time anyone has been inconsistent with a read this game is Han saying he knows how to read BCT day 1 and 2 and calling BCT town. Then pretending he never said that at all once I had to be in his POE.

Otherwise reads have been consistent. I've seen You, Han, and Lea calling Sheep and Isquen scum since day 1. And what do you know, you lynched them

PunishedBen posted...

Bro, I'm sure that was your priority. All of those people are town.

Maybe if your confidence is shaken up so much like you say you should throw me a bone then. But you wont. Because that is the list of people you have to consistently suspect.

You may not believe me, but I promise you I've come in to today with the intent to observe Han more closely and see if I was wrong on him. But that doesn't mean I suddenly buddy up with my top suspect. That just seems illogical.

Can't help but notice you didn't respond to the other part of that post Ben.

EDumey posted...

"If the guy who was almost lynched is Town, why don't scum kill him?" Maybe that's your clue. Maybe all the scum were already on the Han train, and there were no scum left to hammer him?

EDumey posted...

"If the guy who was almost lynched is Town, why don't scum kill him?" Maybe that's your clue. Maybe all the scum were already on the Han train, and there were no scum left to hammer him?

Didnt...think...that was a serious argument

Final Votals:
[5] Wallz: JC, Sultan, (Ulti), Han, EDumey, Lea
[4] Han: (Ulti), (Ulti), Ben, ctes, Ulti, Wallz
[0] Ben: (Lea), (EDumey), (Han)
[0] Ctes: (Ulti), (Sultan), (Wallz), (EDumey), (Han), (Ulti), (Wallz)
[0] EDumey, (Ulti)

Two confirmed town on that train

PunishedBen posted...

I'd say the only time anyone has been inconsistent with a read this game is Han saying he knows how to read BCT day 1 and 2 and calling BCT town. Then pretending he never said that at all once I had to be in his POE.

Otherwise reads have been consistent. I've seen You, Han, and Lea calling Sheep and Isquen scum since day 1. And what do you know, you lynched them

This is actually a lie too, what the fuck Ben? Didn't you just spend the day combing over Day 1? I thought Sheep looked bad early D1, but pretty much didn't suspect him at all for the rest of the day after he claimed. And I could maybe be proven wrong on this one, but I don't think I said a single negative thing about MZero at all until the replace happened and Isquen happened to be in my PoE. Sheep was not my lynch. I didn't oppose it, but you throwing that under me is straight up fabrication.

PunishedBen posted...

Didnt...think...that was a serious argument

Final Votals:
[5] Wallz: JC, Sultan, (Ulti), Han, EDumey, Lea
[4] Han: (Ulti), (Ulti), Ben, ctes, Ulti, Wallz
[0] Ben: (Lea), (EDumey), (Han)
[0] Ctes: (Ulti), (Sultan), (Wallz), (EDumey), (Han), (Ulti), (Wallz)
[0] EDumey, (Ulti)

Two confirmed town on that train

And Sultan AFK not at deadline. Isn't that interesting?

And the last is Ctes and if we are still thinking Ctes is scum....come on

EDumey posted...

This is actually a lie too, what the fuck Ben? Didn't you just spend the day combing over Day 1? I thought Sheep looked bad early D1, but pretty much didn't suspect him at all for the rest of the day after he claimed. And I could maybe be proven wrong on this one, but I don't think I said a single negative thing about MZero at all until the replace happened and Isquen happened to be in my PoE. Sheep was not my lynch. I didn't oppose it, but you throwing that under me is straight up fabrication.

I'm sorry if I'm throwing you a bit into the pile of Han and Lea. I'm still willing to have you last on the order of operations! Han and Lea did this for sure in regards to Sheep and Isquen. But i just wanted to point out that people can still be consistent and be scum

EDumey posted...

And Sultan AFK not at deadline. Isn't that interesting?

Not really. Once in the book, always in the book :)

Real ones know what I'm talking about

Ben let me ask you to look from my perspective here.

You're asking me to assume Han is scum. I'm unwilling to budge on Lea. I literally don't think it's possible for it to be her.

For me to follow your theory, I have to believe that both JC and Sultan are scum.

How do I believe that JC is scum now that I know for sure that Ulti wasn't BP.

Would you buy a Han/JC/Sultan scum team in my shoes?

EDumey posted...

Sultan. Please read the rest of the post. I explicitly explain why I thought Ulti wasn't going to be targetted. Hence why I was asking about who in the rest of the game would be.

So you were I the camp that Ulti made the save both nights and Ctes is town then?