Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 401: Haley's Vomit

(+) Yeah! (+)

And I have never presented myself as an enlightened centrist. I have said I am a centrist and a very moderate conservative / slightly leaning conservative. I have never said I am not a registered republican. Hence, why I mentioned I would probably vote for Nikki in the republican primary. I can't vote for non Republicans or other primaries. Our state had a closed primary.

The "enlightened centrist" mockery has come because I have said you guys in general are polarized on extreme ends, like most of Americans in politics, and that you view things as team red vs team blue, while I do not because I am barely right of center on the spectrum.

Corrik7 posted...

I have always been a registered republican, and I always lay barely just right of center.

you think the GOP in 2023 is barely just right of center?

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

you think the GOP in 2023 is barely just right of center?

The GOP consists of a spectrum that exists from slightly left of center to far right of center.

Democratic party consists of the opposing. Slightly right to far left lf center. Trump has let them peel further into the right to tap for votes however.

i really don't get how you can say "my stances fall in line with trump a lot" and "i'm barely right of center."

what stances does trump have that you would consider to be leftist?

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

i really don't get how you can say "my stances fall in line with trump a lot" and "i'm barely right of center."

what stances does trump have that you would consider to be leftist?

Not necessarily leftist, but many of trumps core platforms are certainly center right. His reduction in corporate income tax push for instance was solidly center right (Economists think corporate income tax is extremely inefficient)

I believe Corrik is juxtaposing this against some of the far right pushes like a national abortion ban or the elimination of personal income tax

Though fyi I have not and have no intention of looking up if Trump added support for those, wouldnt shock me

Corrik7 posted...

The GOP consists of a spectrum that exists from slightly left of center to far right of center.

Democratic party consists of the opposing. Slightly right to far left lf center. Trump has let them peel further into the right to tap for votes however.

Do you wanna give a quick example of a handful of Republicans you consider left of center, center, and slightly right?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Do you wanna give a quick example of a handful of Republicans you consider left of center, center, and slightly right?

There is numerous people of all that spectrum that vote for the republican party and/or registered for the republican party.

Numerous people. You wouldnt know them though. They go to a different school.

Whooooooo Im so hyped we get to talk about these studies again. Using the one written about and linked here:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/21449634/republicans-supreme-court-gop-trump-authoritarian

Here is a comparison of parties in liberal democracies in terms of how economically left/right (x) socially liberal/conservative (y) they are:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/3/AAEfmDAAEKct.jpg

You will notice the GOP all the way in the top right. This means that they are one of the most right-wing parties in the world in both social and economic terms. They are comparable to Le Pens party in France, Vox in Spain, the Finns Party in Finland, and EKRE in Estonia among others. You know what these parties have in common? They are all widely considered as far-right parties.

Now lets look at respect for/undermining democracy (x) vs. support for/opposition to minority rights (y):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/4/AAEfmDAAEKcu.jpg

Once again the Republicans are one of the worst in the world for both, comparable to Turkeys AKP and Polands PiS. Both of which are strongly authoritarian parties.

Lastly, lets see how their voters compare to the expert scores in the study (above the line means voters self-identify as more right wing):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/5/AAEfmDAAEKcv.jpg
So GOP voters also self-identify as being very far to the right.

In conclusion, and in light of the many other studies showing similar, the Republicans are a far-right party, not a centre-right or even just right wing party. In fact, they are one of the most extreme mainstream parties in the world right now. So to put it another way Corrik is wrong.

Biden's SOTU may have won over at least one Republican

https://twitter.com/gavinbena/status/1623212526501494788

Okay that's bizarre

Thorn posted...

Biden's SOTU may have won over at least one Republican

https://twitter.com/gavinbena/status/1623212526501494788

Is this one of those messages written by someone else that Trump didn't approve

Or this is just how much Trump hates Desantis at the moment.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

i really don't get how you can say "my stances fall in line with trump a lot" and "i'm barely right of center."

something you have to remember about american politics is that if you meet two american dudes and one says "I'm a centrist" and the other says "I'm a neo-nazi" they probably agree on well over 95% of issues.

Kenri posted...

something you have to remember about american politics is that if you meet two american dudes and one says "I'm a centrist" and the other says "I'm a neo-nazi" they probably agree on well over 95% of issues.

Stop it. I can't roll my eyes hard enough for shit like this.

kevwaffles posted...

Stop it. I can't roll my eyes hard enough for shit like this.

How much do Neo Nazis actually disagree with the Republican Party?

How often do people openly choose to identify as Centrist or Independent and what they really are is embarrassed Republicans?

Kenri is being provocative, but how wrong is he? It's not 100% overlap, but its far more than "cant roll my eyes enough"-worthy.

kevwaffles posted...

Stop it. I can't roll my eyes hard enough for shit like this.

Its not even worth addressing over how dumb it is.

"I think the rich should pay more in taxes, but we also need to reduce government spending" - NEO NAZI SPEAK

masterplum posted...

Its not even worth addressing over how dumb it is.

"I think the rich should pay more in taxes, but we also need to reduce government spending" - NEO NAZI SPEAK

You have source backwards, its not that those messages are automatically neo Nazi speak, its that Neo Nazis consistently agree with them.

If youre not a Neo Nazi apologist, even if youre right wing, it shouldnt be offensive to you. Just try to focus on your differences

masterplum posted...

"I think the rich should pay more in taxes, but we also need to reduce government spending" - NEO NAZI SPEAK

neither of the dudes i'm talking about say the first part of this

Kenri posted...

neither of the dudes i'm talking about say the first part of this

I mean if you want to get closer to actual nazi talking points, there is a world of difference between "I think white people genetically superior" and "I don't like affirmative action because it hurts people because of their skin color"

The latter is definitely a centrist view point

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

How much do Neo Nazis actually disagree with the Republican Party?

How often do people openly choose to identify as Centrist or Independent and what they really are is embarrassed Republicans?

Kenri is being provocative, but how wrong is he? It's not 100% overlap, but its far more than "cant roll my eyes enough"-worthy.

Someone openly calling them a Neo-Nazi is probably more concerned about prison politics than anything else.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

i really don't get how you can say "my stances fall in line with trump a lot" and "i'm barely right of center."

what stances does trump have that you would consider to be leftist?

Cutting taxes on the poor and working class
Making healthcare more affordable for the working class (I know this isn't a problem in Europe but it is here. I also know Trump achieved nothing on this one, but he tried for a little bit.)
More jobs for the working class
Higher wages for the working class

red_sox_777 posted...

Cutting taxes on the poor and working class
Making healthcare more affordable for the working class (I know this isn't a problem in Europe but it is here. I also know Trump achieved nothing on this one, but he tried for a little bit.)
More jobs for the working class
Higher wages for the working class

What policies did Trump enact to achieve any of these things?

masterplum posted...

I mean if you want to get closer to actual nazi talking points, there is a world of difference between "I think white people genetically superior" and "I don't like affirmative action because it hurts people because of their skin color"

The latter is definitely a centrist view point

sure, there's a difference between those two positions. both guys are still anti-affirmative action though.

("white people are genetically superior" is more ideology than discrete political issue like I'm talking about. you can draw your own conclusions on whether they agree on that or not.)

kevwaffles posted...

Someone openly calling them a Neo-Nazi is probably more concerned about prison politics than anything else.

America First
Anti-LGBT people
Anti-immigration/people of color
Anti-CRT/making white kids feel bad
Anti-Woke
Anti-elite (but they love Elon)

These are like the Neo Nazi core values, and also like, Tim Pool. Am I wrong?

Also I misread Plums post, I thought it said less taxes (saw what I wanted for sure), but the point stands. How many Centrists argue we should raise taxes on the rich/corporations and honestly means it?

ShadowYosuke posted...

What policies did Trump enact to achieve any of these things?

2017 Tax Cuts
Tariffs on foreign imports

And, most importantly, not getting in the way of the economy by passing bad economic policies. Biden is also doing an excellent job of this last one.

A lot?

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/396737/average-american-remains-higher-taxes-rich.aspx

Also, on further thought, the Republican healthcare plan in 2017 was actually really leftist. It was essentially universal basic income. They proposed that the government simply hand out money to everyone. The only difference in the amounts would be based on age (because health insurance for older people costs more). This was presented as providing people money to buy health insurance, but without a requirement to spend it on health insurance, it is equivalent to universal basic income with age brackets.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Tim Pool

Bruh

Bruh what?

Tim Pool and his distressingly massive audience are exactly the people Kenri was talking about.

red_sox_777 posted...

I also know Trump achieved nothing on this one, but he tried for a little bit.)

stuff like this means very little. i know trump SAID a lot of stuff that would be considered leftist but i'm talking about stuff he actually did. he said he "would look into" bernie's minimum wage plan during the campaign of the '16 election but he never executed the plan.

More jobs for the working class

that's not really a leftist point. right-wing people are totally fine with working class people having jobs.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

stuff like this means very little. i know trump SAID a lot of stuff that would be considered leftist but i'm talking about stuff he actually did. he said he "would look into" bernie's minimum wage plan during the campaign of the '16 election but he never executed the plan.

Entry level wages for fast food jobs in many parts of the US are now substantially higher than what the Democrats were proposing. So, Trump succeeded in raising wages, and he did it without having to raise the minimum wage by law.

that's not really a leftist point. right-wing people are totally fine with working class people having jobs.

Or with them not having jobs. Whichever makes the capitalist class more money. Over the last 40 years, the general trend has been to ship jobs to whichever countries can supply labor at the lowest cost. This increases profits and also lowers prices for middle class consumers, but it's really bad for the working class.

LightningStrikes posted...

Whooooooo Im so hyped we get to talk about these studies again. Using the one written about and linked here:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/21449634/republicans-supreme-court-gop-trump-authoritarian

Here is a comparison of parties in liberal democracies in terms of how economically left/right (x) socially liberal/conservative (y) they are:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/3/AAEfmDAAEKct.jpg

You will notice the GOP all the way in the top right. This means that they are one of the most right-wing parties in the world in both social and economic terms. They are comparable to Le Pens party in France, Vox in Spain, the Finns Party in Finland, and EKRE in Estonia among others. You know what these parties have in common? They are all widely considered as far-right parties.

Now lets look at respect for/undermining democracy (x) vs. support for/opposition to minority rights (y):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/4/AAEfmDAAEKcu.jpg

Once again the Republicans are one of the worst in the world for both, comparable to Turkeys AKP and Polands PiS. Both of which are strongly authoritarian parties.

Lastly, lets see how their voters compare to the expert scores in the study (above the line means voters self-identify as more right wing):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/5/AAEfmDAAEKcv.jpg
So GOP voters also self-identify as being very far to the right.

In conclusion, and in light of the many other studies showing similar, the Republicans are a far-right party, not a centre-right or even just right wing party. In fact, they are one of the most extreme mainstream parties in the world right now. So to put it another way Corrik is wrong.

Incorrect. I didn't claim what you just said I claimed.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Bruh what?

Tim Pool and his distressingly massive audience are exactly the people Kenri was talking about.

Yeah no shit. Except Tim Pool is full of shit, his actual audience is probably mostly pretty cool with calling themselves right-leaning at the very least, and "off the street" comprises a lot more people than their dumb asses.

Or should I take everyone who claims to be a trans ally at their word right before spouting the most transphobic shit you've ever heard?

I mean you said that the GOP is a spectrum that goes from left of centre to far-right. Given how far-right the GOP is as an organisation and that voters self-align with that, this seems incorrect.

To be fair, party membership in the US makes basically no sense. In most countries there is a formal system of membership and you can be kicked out for a variety of reasons. In the US anybody can run as whatever they feel like as long as they win a primary.

LightningStrikes posted...

I mean you said that the GOP is a spectrum that goes from left of centre to far-right. Given how far-right the GOP is as an organisation and that voters self-align with that, this seems incorrect.

To be fair, party membership in the US makes basically no sense. In most countries there is a formal system of membership and you can be kicked out for a variety of reasons. In the US anybody can run as whatever they feel like as long as they win a primary.

Let me make this diagram for yinz again.

Left---------------------|--------------------Right
XXXXXxxx x x x x x x x x xxxXXXXX

This is American politics. Basically. Two extreme polarized ends some towards the mjddle of their sides and sparsely across the center stragglers.

The GOP draws from voters from the beginning of the x x x to the very right. While the Dems grab from the very left to the end of the x x x.

It is understood American politics is polarized (and comparing it to left and right of other countries is pointless. Arguably democrats are to the right if you go by such metrics).

He said how can you be in the middle of the spectrum if you support the GOP.

He also asked to discuss about some that could be center of left that support the GOP.

Obviously the further you go left and right the less crossovers you have, but they exist.

LightningStrikes posted...

I mean you said that the GOP is a spectrum that goes from left of centre to far-right. Given how far-right the GOP is as an organisation and that voters self-align with that, this seems incorrect.

To be fair, party membership in the US makes basically no sense. In most countries there is a formal system of membership and you can be kicked out for a variety of reasons. In the US anybody can run as whatever they feel like as long as they win a primary.

Repubocrats lol. I can know many democrats that swear by trump and fox News. Who will say the Democrat party lost their way after Clinton.

Majority of my workplace is registered democrats but vote republican because they support unions but most nothing else via democrats. All kinds of weird scenarios.

I think there isn't an understanding that there are millions of Americans who don't do politics. They vote on election day and otherwise don't pay attention

Those people can have wildly different views than the party they vote for. That's where the 3% of Democrats who want to ban abortion in all cases or whatever you see in polls

Left---------------------|--------------------Right
XXXXXxxx x x x x x x x x xxxXXXXX

I lie generally right around the bolded xs above.

masterplum posted...

I think there isn't an understanding that there are millions of Americans who don't do politics. They vote on election day and otherwise don't pay attention

Those people can have wildly different views than the party they vote for. That's where the 3% of Democrats who want to ban abortion in all cases or whatever you see in polls

You don't have to support every issue to support democrats. It's not a team game. And vice versa. That's the ends. The middle balance positions on multiple things and vote what they feel is most important to them.

A lot of abortion voters are single issue voters.

I for one believe in just very limited abortion, but it's such a minor issue to me that I don't care much or let it sway my decision voting one way or the other.

kevwaffles posted...

Yeah no shit. Except Tim Pool is full of shit, his actual audience is probably mostly pretty cool with calling themselves right-leaning at the very least, and "off the street" comprises a lot more people than their dumb asses.

Kenri can correct me if he disagreesbut this is literally the point.

I put Centrist and Independent in quotation marks for a reason. Your average person who claims to be them is not.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

How often do people openly choose to identify as Centrist or Independent and what they really are is embarrassed Republicans?

lol looks like Trump may be setting the seeds to go critical mass against the Republican party if he doesn't get the nom.

https://twitter.com/mannyfidel/status/1623322929709699074?s=19

trump is simping for jill like corrik is for nikki haley m i rite

Trump may have realized his 2020 strategy of calling Biden a socialist didn't work.

just remembered that corrik also thinks GWB was a great president lmao

my heartfelt congratulations to the person who can explain to me how he was "barely right of center."

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

just remembered that corrik also thinks GWB was a great president lmao

my heartfelt congratulations to the person who can explain to me how he was "barely right of center."

Welcome to forever.

https://twitter.com/zoeschiffer/status/1623774386322051073?s=21

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/zoeschiffer/status/1623774386322051073?s=21

I question if this is completely true but if it is that's hilarious

Why would literally anyone work there

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-disney-reedy-creek-house-vote-thursday-20230209-npncgjqvbfhdzokto5b2ww5fzu-story.html

DeSantis seizing control of Reedy Creek (Disney's district) because they had the gall to speak out (kinda) about Don't Say Gay.

I know we talked about it when they floated the idea but now the votes are happening.

Florida's House voted today to make it so that DeSantis appoints all the members of the board as well as changing the district name to "Central Florida Tourism Oversight District." Efforts by Democrats to amend it so some of the board was appointed by the full Cabinet and the rest by local officials from the surrounding districts were all killed.

masterplum posted...

I question if this is completely true but if it is that's hilarious

Why would literally anyone work there

Some of them are basically forced to in order to maintain their work visas.