Current Events > Dave Chappelle Confronts Anti-Trans Backlash

(+) Yeah! (+)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


So then the root of all this is the pushback he got from jokes that, you yourself admit, werent all that bad or offensive.

Please keep in mind Im not arguing, at all. Im just asking. I know its tough to gauge tone when just reading text.

Yeah, shame on Dave for doubling down when he got the initial pushback, as he shouldve been used to it by now. But thats also the nature of his comedy.

Also, a bit needs to be says about sometimes its not the joke, but who says the joke that also drums up a lot of venom. Like, theres wildly offensive jokes that play into black and Latino stereotypes, but are told by black and Latino comics, and they go by virtually unnoticed.

Go back to the original joke I posted. Now imagine that wasnt Chappelle telling that joke and it was Eddie Izzard. Does anyone say anything?

Comedy is SO highly subjective, its nearly impossible to say what is right and wrong.

bigblu89 posted...

Also, a bit needs to be says about sometimes its not the joke, but who says the joke that also drums up a lot of venom. Like, theres wildly offensive jokes that play into black and Latino stereotypes, but are told by black and Latino comics, and they go by virtually unnoticed.

Go back to the original joke I posted. Now imagine that wasnt Chappelle telling that joke and it was Eddie Izzard. Does anyone say anything?

You've successfully identified the difference between self-deprecating humor and punching down, congratulations

TMOG posted...

You've successfully identified the difference between self-deprecating humor and punching down, congratulations

Punching down suggests your target is beneath you.

Why do you think Trans people are below someone like Chappelle?

My point was, why was OK when Chappelle was making fun of poor, drug addicted, black people? He's not a poor, drug addicted black person. How is that "self-deprecating humor"? He grew up in the suburbs in an upper-middle class home. He's the "Poppa-Doc" of comedy. People assume he "hood" because he gave the illusion he was hood with his style of comedy, and everyone was too lazy to realize that wasn't how he really lived.

bigblu89 posted...

Go back to the original joke I posted. Now imagine that wasnt Chappelle telling that joke and it was Eddie Izzard. Does anyone say anything?

I'd still be pretty disappointed she told such a shit joke tbh.

bigblu89 posted...

Punching down suggests your target is beneath you.

Why do you think Trans people are below someone like Chappelle?

Nice spin, but fuck off.

Pointing out that Dave Chappelle is punching down doesn't mean that I'm saying trans people are inherently inferior to him. The reason it's punching down is because Chappelle is a famous and influential comedian repeatedly mocking and attacking a vulnerable demographic of people who are under constant threat, both legal and physical, just for existing.

If I go back in time to the 1960s and say that a famous white comedian telling jokes about black people is punching down, that's not me saying that the black people are inferior to the white comedian. It just means that the comedian is taking advantage of his fame and the current social climate to use somebody that he and his audience perceives as inferior to him as a punchline.

Funkydog posted...

I'd still be pretty disappointed she told such a shit joke tbh.

Definitely. We can argue the merit of the comedy on it's surface. But a joke being ok or offensive depending on who delivers it opens up a very messy can of worms.

TMOG posted...

Nice spin, but fuck off.

Pointing out that Dave Chappelle is punching down doesn't mean that I'm saying trans people are inherently inferior to him. The reason it's punching down is because Chappelle is a famous and influential comedian repeatedly mocking and attacking a vulnerable demographic of people who are under constant threat, both legal and physical, just for existing.

If I go back in time to the 1960s and say that a famous white comedian telling jokes about black people is punching down, that's not me saying that the black people are inferior to the white comedian. It just means that the comedian is taking advantage of his fame and the current social climate to use somebody that he and his audience perceives as inferior to him as a punchline.

Please read the 2nd part of my comment. And I'm being civil in this conversation, I'd appreciate if you were as well and refrain from the language. Thank you.

"The reason it's punching down is because Chappelle is a famous and influential comedian repeatedly mocking and attacking a vulnerable demographic of people who are under constant threat, both legal and physical, just for existing."

Chappelle built his career on that, but it was poor black people, so everyone was OK with it and threw him a boatload of money to continue doing it. If anything, people should be more shocked that they are just now discovering that this is the kind of person Chappelle is.

bigblu89 posted...

Definitely. We can argue the merit of the comedy on it's surface. But a joke being ok or offensive depending on who delivers it opens up a very messy can of worms.

Self deprecating humour is generally seen as fine, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Just as certain groups can say certain words, so can said groups make jokes about themselves.

TMOG posted...

If I go back in time to the 1960s and say that a famous white comedian telling jokes about black people is punching down, that's not me saying that the black people are inferior to the white comedian. It just means that the comedian is taking advantage of his fame and the current social climate to use somebody that he and his audience perceives as inferior to him as a punchline.

said comedians are viewed as bigots today

and thats how dave will be viewed by most ppl in 60 years

bigblu89 posted...

Punching down suggests your target is beneath you.

Why do you think Trans people are below someone like Chappelle?

Yeah, this is, like, 2000's-era "no ur the real bigot" attempted spin. If you're being sincere in your argument, do better. If you're trolling, you still need to do better.

masterpug53 posted...

Yeah, this is, like, 2000's-era "no ur the real bigot" attempted spin. If you're being sincere in your argument, do better. If you're trolling, you still need to do better.

I was asking it in jest, because people like to pick an choose what is "punching down".

No one considered him building his wealth on the back of jokes about poor black drug addicts as "punching down".

bigblu89 posted...

No one considered him building his wealth on the back of jokes about poor black drug addicts as "punching down".

Yes they did. The problem was that it was the 90s and early 2000s when he was making those jokes, and as anybody who was actually alive back then will tell you, the kinds of "comedy" that was successful then was very different, especially when it came to marginalized groups like the LGBT community, people with autism or who are on the spectrum, certain religious or ethnic groups, and most relevant to this example, drug addicts.

It was absolutely punching down, but the social climate back then was okay with it because people in the 90s/2000s honestly kind of sucked.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I didn't mean it to be a potshot, and I'm trying to have a genuine conversation. I think my tone is coming off as combative, and I'm not trying to be.

What Chappelle has done AFTER the initial pushback in inexcusable, something I haven't denied. My line of questions was more about the initial joke that I posted, and whether or not THAT deserved the backlash he received for it.

bigblu89 posted...

I think my tone is coming off as combative, and I'm not trying to be.

bigblu89 posted...

Why do you think Trans people are below someone like Chappelle?

Definitely not intentionally combative bait. Nope.

TMOG posted...

Yes they did. The problem was that it was the 90s and early 2000s when he was making those jokes, and as anybody who was actually alive back then will tell you, the kinds of "comedy" that was successful then was very different, especially when it came to marginalized groups like the LGBT community, people with autism or who are on the spectrum, certain religious or ethnic groups, and most relevant to this example, drug addicts.

It was absolutely punching down, but the social climate back then was okay with it because people in the 90s/2000s honestly kind of sucked.

Stand Up comedians are STILL making jokes like in clubs all over the country, so, sadly, people's senses of humor haven't changed as much as you may think they have. They're not all going up there making jokes about how expensive Disney is and Hot Pockets, like Jim Gaffigan.

TMOG posted...

Definitely not intentionally combative bait. Nope.

You can take me at my word, or you can ignore it. I'm not forcing you to do either.

bigblu89 posted...

shame on Dave for doubling down

Why does he have an obligation to submit to bullying?

bigblu89 posted...

Stand Up comedians are STILL making jokes like in clubs all over the country

How many big, famous ones can you name who are consistently making jokes about the groups I named in my post (without being part of those groups themselves) and not getting backlash for it? Of course there's always going to be some chucklefuck redneck nobody knows going up on stage in a red state and saying "Gay people, am I right?" to uproarious, incestuous applause.

But how many comedians with careers are doing it?

Dave Chappelle doesn't count here, since we're already talking about him. I want other examples.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I get that, but that's where the backlash started, so that's what I was focusing on.

But I get it. It's much bigger than that one joke, and you're right, that's what the focus should now be, which I admitted in post #171.

At this point, I think it's best I bow out here and let this thread sink until Dave puts his foot in his mouth again, and a new one starts up.

TMOG posted...

How many big, famous ones can you name who are consistently making jokes about the groups I named in my post (without being part of those groups themselves) and not getting backlash for it? Of course there's always going to be some chucklefuck redneck nobody knows going up on stage in a red state and saying "Gay people, am I right?" to uproarious, incestuous applause.

But how many comedians with careers are doing it?

Dave Chappelle doesn't count here, since we're already talking about him. I want other examples.

Daniel Tosh, Anthony Jezelnek. Basically any comedian that's been featured on a Comedy Central roast.

Difference is, they're smart enough not to lean into the pushback and just keep doing their act.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Which is why I said "But I get it. It's much bigger than that one joke, and you're right, that's what the focus should now be, which I admitted in post #171"

Comics are under no obligation to "punch" in any given direction, as long as they can be funny about it. Worst possible criticism.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

And I'm under no obligation to not criticize their bad criticisms. Hard concept, I know.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Oh. No. I just meant there will inevitably be another Chappelle topic at some point.

I have zero intentions on participating in it though.

AloneIBreak posted...

And I'm under no obligation to not criticize their bad criticisms. Hard concept, I know.

"Don't be a hate-spreading transphobe that vilifies trans people at every opportunity" is a bad criticism?

TMOG posted...

"Don't be a hate-spreading transphobe that vilifies trans people at every opportunity" is a bad criticism?

That's a different criticism and it's disingenuous to equate the two.

"He shouldn't joke about [x] because comedians are supposed to punch up" is a bad criticism. You can successfully punch down in comedy.

AloneIBreak posted...

And I'm under no obligation to not criticize their bad criticisms. Hard concept, I know.

And I'm under no obligation to not criticize their bad criticisms of criticisms. Tee-hee, this is fun!

bigblu89 posted...

And I'm being civil in this conversation, I'd appreciate if you were as well and refrain from the language.

Don't get your undies in a twist because someone used a bad word in response to you declaring them a bigot. Your accusation was most certainly not civil.

You dont get to decide what is or isnt a funny joke to other people.

You can only decide that for yourself.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

You dont get to decide what is or isnt a funny joke to other people.

You can only decide that for yourself.

this is true

but we can judge a person who makes and laughs at bigoted jokes

AceMos posted...

this is true

but we can judge a person who makes and laughs at bigoted jokes

Just because you feel like a joke is bigoted doesn't make it true. A trans person could hear the joke and laugh. They just feel differently about the joke than you do.

AceMos posted...

this is true

but we can judge a person who makes and laughs at bigoted jokes

We can also judge the joke police and the no-fun-allowed people. And we do. Not a good look, acemos.

AloneIBreak posted...

You can successfully punch down in comedy.

Please post examples of Dave successfully doing so with trans jokes.

DrizztLink posted...

Please post examples of Dave successfully doing so with trans jokes.

The joke I posted earlier. About the alphabet people driving a car.

It ends poorly, but more because of a racially insensitive joke more than a transphobic one.

Wether or not YOU find it funny doesnt necessarily make it not funny. I personally didnt think it was all that funny, but opinions differ.

DrizztLink posted...

Please post examples of Dave successfully doing so with trans jokes.

Did I say Chappelle successfully punched down? Or just that it's possible to punch down successfully? I never found his trans jokes all that compelling, personally, but my point is that "punching down" isn't alone grounds for criticism. Incredibly difficult to follow, I see.

AloneIBreak posted...

Did I say Chappelle successfully punched down? Or just that it's possible to punch down successfully?

So it's irrelevant.