Current Events > Detroit man accused of raping teen gets severely beaten by her family

(+) Yeah! (+)

My brother is sleeping I am sure. When I was told to ask him it was already like 10 by then. Now it's almost 12:30. My brother doesn't stay up all night like I do

CEs here to defend this dude.....

I genuinely can't wrap my head around supporting mob justice simply because you believe the person deserves it. What about when a mob delivers some justice that you don't agree with, to someone you don't think deserves it? You've already established mob justice as valid justice, so you can't then tell the mob they're wrong. Do you just accept that sometimes the mob gets it wrong, but that's a price worth paying?

Fuck around and find out

Zikten posted...

I clearly understand how trials work more than you do. The person who called you a fake lawyer is probably right. A lawyer would understand all the stuff I have said

Yes, this is SirMixaLot

He was caught posting his sister's paycheck when trying to brag about how much money "he" made. As if that wasn't dumb enough, he tried to flex with a BMW, but took the pictures from the passenger seat

SirMixaLot is a laughingstock of CE and not a real lawyer.

Rathinor posted...

Yes, this is SirMixaLot

He was caught posting his sister's paycheck when trying to brag about how much money "he" made. As if that wasn't dumb enough, he tried to flex with a BMW, but took the pictures from the passenger seat

SirMixaLot is a laughingstock of CE and not a real lawyer.

Plus he said he disown his sister because she was dating a black man.

Zikten posted...

I dont think a jury that let this family go free would even be legally allowed to do so. The trial would her overruled by the judge maybe. Or the Supreme Court. It literally is illegal what they did its impossible to deny that, for anyone who actually understands the law about mob justice. You can say you would let them free until this topic hits 500, but you will never be correct

I don't have a dog in this race, but I just wanted to point out something you believe is possible which isn't.

A judge cannot overturn a 'not guilty' verdict. Doing so would violate the fifth amendment. Same thing with the Supreme Court. A 'guilty' verdict can be appealed or even overturned by a judge, but not a 'not guilty' verdict.

Glob posted...

It is not the job of law enforcement to decide who to apply the law to. It should apply to everybody equally if it is to be legitimate.

Yes, the law should apply equally. But thats the problem though, isnt it?

If youre in law enforcement, then you know the law isnt applied equally to everyone. We literally have innocent people incarcerated or executed, while the more common issue of perpetrators not even being arrested continues year after year. That cant be hidden so much in this Age of Information, so people are starting to take the law into their own hands.

If the legal system worked perfectly well, Id agree with your stance one hundred percent.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Yes, the law should apply equally. But thats the problem though, isnt it?

If youre in law enforcement, then you know the law isnt applied equally to everyone. We literally have innocent people incarcerated or executed, while the more common issue of perpetrators not even being arrested continues year after year. That cant be hidden so much in this Age of Information, so people are starting to take the law into their own hands.

If the legal system worked perfectly well, Id agree with your stance one hundred percent.

Im not in law enforcement anymore, and never was in the US. That said, it sounds like youre trying to argue that because the police do a less than stellar job they should continue to do a less than stellar job. That doesnt make any sense.

Runeboggle posted...

I don't have a dog in this race, but I just wanted to point out something you believe is possible which isn't.

A judge cannot overturn a 'not guilty' verdict. Doing so would violate the fifth amendment. Same thing with the Supreme Court. A 'guilty' verdict can be appealed or even overturned by a judge, but not a 'not guilty' verdict.

https://youtu.be/HNGXsgLRkXU

FreedomCaucus posted...

https://youtu.be/HNGXsgLRkXU

I'm not on your side, but I do understand the concept of Jury Nullification. I still feel these people should be arrested for battery so as not to set an example for mob justice on this level.

Runeboggle posted...

This all started with me saying I would be inclined to not convict if I was on the jury. Not that I would not convict, but that I would be inclined to not convict. Then Zikten lost his mind.

Zikten posted...

My brother is sleeping I am sure. When I was told to ask him it was already like 10 by then. Now it's almost 12:30. My brother doesn't stay up all night like I do

Did you ask your bro, bro?

Did he ever Google it either?

According to Wikipedia, jury nullification is mostly when people think a law is unjust. So you think its unjust to deny people the right to form a mob and beat up and kill an accused, before its been proven they are guilty?

If we allow mob justice, and we do jury nullification whenever it comes up in a trial, it would create a world where anyone can accuse anyone of anything and then murder them

I dont think its unjust to beat up my daughters rapist. Most people would have the same belief

Kloe_Rinz posted...

I dont think its unjust to beat up my daughters rapist. Most people would have the same belief

Only if you saw the rape. If you don't actually know he is guilty, then its a crime. Even if you think you believe your daughter, the law does not care. You are supposed to call the cops

I mentioned a different case. Where a dad walked in on a rape happening and killed the rapist. He got off free. That is different from a family just going off a victims accusation and hunting down the accused

Zikten posted...

Only if you saw the rape. If you don't actually know he is guilty, then its a crime. Even if you think you believe your daughter, the law does not care. You are supposed to call the cops

Thats why I was asking earlier, how soon after did the daughter tell anyone? To what level of certainty did they believe he raped her? Thats an important factor

According to Google, Michigan requires unanimous verdicts of 12 jurors in criminal cases. Good luck getting 12 people none of whom would sympathize with the family if you're on the pedo rapist's side.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

I dont think its unjust to beat up my daughters rapist. Most people would have the same belief

Sure. Id want to do the same thing, but its still wrong. Appealing to a victims feelings never justifies further crime.

Saying that a lot of people would want to do it doesnt make it right. Lots of people would like to stab their boss or throw their landlord into a bear trap or whatever, but that doesnt make it okay.

Glob posted...

Sure. Id want to do the same thing, but its still wrong. Appealing to a victims feelings never justifies further crime.

Saying that a lot of people would want to do it doesnt make it right. Lots of people would like to stab their boss or throw their landlord into a bear trap or whatever, but that doesnt make it okay.

Obviously the context matters. Rape is a very different scenario than a shitty boss is.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Obviously the context matters. Rape is a very different scenario than a shitty boss is.

I mean, as you say, context matters. I know of bosses who have ruined peoples lives.

That said, its still not justified to attack somebody for anything other than defence, no matter how much you might want to.

Glob posted...

I mean, as you say, context matters. I know of bosses who have ruined peoples lives.

That said, its still not justified to attack somebody for anything other than defence, no matter how much you might want to.

If an employer is ruining peoples lives and they havent been dealt with by the legal system, obviously there is an injustice that the legal system has failed to resolve. The legal system is not infallible. The legal system isnt the only avenue for justice either, it is just the most widely supported.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If an employer is ruining peoples lives and they havent been dealt with by the legal system, obviously there is an injustice that the legal system has failed to resolve. The legal system is not infallible. The legal system isnt the only avenue for justice either, it is just the most widely supported.

I would never claim that the legal system is perfect. However, the correct answer is reform, not ignoring the whole thing.

I mean, if theyre happy to go to prison for issuing the beating, I suppose you could argue that its a form of civil disobedience.

Glob posted...

If its anything like the UK, sometimes the police arrest somebody for their own protection. I only ever did it once but it does happen.

woah wait

youre a cop with a british accent

*unzips*

Glob posted...

I would never claim that the legal system is perfect. However, the correct answer is reform, not ignoring the whole thing.

I mean, if theyre happy to go to prison for issuing the beating, I suppose you could argue that its a form of civil disobedience.

Reform isnt an option available to victims of rape or their close family+friends to obtain justice for an incident. Its something that needs to be worked towards by society as a whole but its not an answer for individual injustices

FreedomCaucus posted...

Detroit man accused of raping teen gets severely beaten by her family

You used the word "man" in the topic title, but then proceed to refer to this person using "her" instead of "his". You used the wrong pronoun here.

I have to call you out on this, and I'm surprised no one has caught this yet.

LusterSoldier posted...

You used the word "man" in the topic title, but then proceed to refer to this person using "her" instead of "his". You used the wrong pronoun here.

The alleged rapist is male, and the teen is female. So da fuck you talking about, willis?

Kloe_Rinz posted...

I dont think its unjust to beat up my daughters rapist. Most people would have the same belief

Perhaps you never took civics, justice isnt defined as the will of the victims father.

FreedomCaucus posted...

The alleged rapist is male, and the teen is female. So da fuck you talking about, willis?

Topic title is grammatically incorrect here. It is worded in a way that implies that the "her" is referring back to the man. If you want to be grammatically correct, here is what I suggest for a topic title:

Teen raped by a Detroit man gets severely beaten by her family

Yeah no shit. I can only fit so much in the title lol.

ShaniaSingsling posted...

woah wait

youre a cop with a british accent

*unzips*

Havent been a cop since about 2013.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Reform isnt an option available to victims of rape or their close family+friends to obtain justice for an incident. Its something that needs to be worked towards by society as a whole but its not an answer for individual injustices

Sorry, I missed this post somehow.

Youre right that reform wont help individuals in some instances, and when it does, the wheels turn slowly.

However, you keep using the word justice and that isnt what youre talking about. Youre talking about vengeance and thats an important distinction.

LusterSoldier posted...

Topic title is grammatically incorrect here. It is worded in a way that implies that the "her" is referring back to the man. If you want to be grammatically correct, here is what I suggest for a topic title:

Teen raped by a Detroit man gets severely beaten by her family

Why would her family beat her after she was raped? Read your suggested title back again, because that makes no sense and in fact the title is perfectly fine.

Glob posted...

Sorry, I missed this post somehow.

Youre right that reform wont help individuals in some instances, and when it does, the wheels turn slowly.

However, you keep using the word justice and that isnt what youre talking about. Youre talking about vengeance and thats an important distinction.

Vengeance can help some victims find some solace.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Vengeance can help some victims find some solace.

That doesnt make it justice.

Glob posted...

That doesnt make it justice.

It can for the victims

Kloe_Rinz posted...

It can for the victims

No, it cant.

It can give them what they want, it can give them a sense of closure and all manner of other good things, but it still isnt justice.

Victims should never have any say in terms of the severity of the punishment for the perpetrators. They are, understandably, too close to it and led by emotion which effects their judgement.

Glob posted...

No, it cant.

In your opinion but not in theirs

Glob posted...

Victims should never have any say in terms of the severity of the punishment for the perpetrators. They are, understandably, too close to it and led by emotion which effects their judgement.

For severe crimes such as rape, they are the most affected by it and what they have to say matters more than anyone else. I agree with you for lesser crimes such as theft.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

In your opinion but not in theirs

For severe crimes such as rape, they are the most affected by it and what they have to say matters more than anyone else. I agree with you for lesser crimes such as theft.

They are the most effected by it which is why they should absolutely be kept away from the decision-making process. They are compromised by their experience.

Also, the whole justice thing is not an opinion. It doesnt mean what you want it to mean, no matter how many times you use it incorrectly.

Now understand, because Im not going to keep going in circles here, Im not saying that I dont understand why victims feel this way or that I would feel any differently in their position. However, as outsiders have a greater ability to remain objective, they should use it and they should be the ones making important decisions. This is why vigilante justice is wrong. Its not about whether or not people acting emotionally believe that the guy got what he deserved. It doesnt matter if you agree with them in some cases. What matters is that they are not in any position to make that call.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Vengeance can help some victims find some solace.

This is what happens when you get your sense of morality from action movies.

Zikten posted...

According to Wikipedia, jury nullification is mostly when people think a law is unjust. So you think its unjust to deny people the right to form a mob and beat up and kill an accused, before its been proven they are guilty?

If we allow mob justice, and we do jury nullification whenever it comes up in a trial, it would create a world where anyone can accuse anyone of anything and then murder them

I think you're mixing together a lot of things in your arguments here.

The existence of jury nullification is why they can find someone not guilty. They don't have to say "I'm invoking jury nullification" or anything like that. They just return a not guilty verdict. You don't even need to as a jury every explain why you did or did not convict someone.

If a jury nullified in this case, it doesn't mean that every jury would nullify or that those laws no longer exist. Yes, it would be scary if jury nullification became such a common process that laws didn't matter anymore but it happening in this case wouldn't cause that to happen anymore than any other case where someone who we perceive as clearly guilty doesn't get convicted.

WTF even is this topic

UnfairRepresent posted...

WTF even is this topic

Someone that watched too many vigilante movies and let them cloud his mind apparently.