Current Events > You know, Augustus Gloop really wasn't that bad of a kid in the 1971 Willy Wonka

(+) Yeah! (+)

OK, we all know that every child sans Charlie represents a sin of some kind, and Augustus's is obviously gluttony. However:

(1) while shown eating at the German restaurant, Augustus is clothed nicely, eating properly and showing good manners. He's not devouring his meal like a heathen.

(2) By modern standards, Augustus isn't even really that portly.

(3) He does not act bratty like any of the other kids, his only foible being his craving for food.

(4) Most importantly, Charlie attempts to help Augustus out of the chocolate river by extending a giant lollipop for Augustus to grab onto. Charlie makes no attempt whatsoever to help the other children when they act up, eventually leading to their "demise."

Charlie genuinely trying to help Augustus suggests he saw that Augustus was a good, albeit somewhat misguided, kid.

How exactly would he help the other kids

Violet wasn't that bad.

Augustus would have eaten the whole factory if he had the chance, but she just wanted to try some experimental chewing gum.

He's just a kid in a candy shop. Of course he gonna eat something

Honestly besides Verucca, I didn't really think any of the kids were that bad in the original.

The Depp remake made them all so much worse.

Irony posted...

How exactly would he help the other kids

He clogged up that pipe so no other kids would get stuck in it too.

What?

Wonka never told them not to drink from the river too.

Irony posted...

How exactly would he help the other kids

He made no effort to convince Violet not to try the gum, simply casually asking Grandpa Joe "Why won't she listen to Mr. Wonka?"

He made no effort to call out to Mike Teavee not to turn himself into a guinea pig.

Veruca, yeah, Charlie really couldn't have done anything.

Also what Violet did (trying experimental product) was exactly the same as Charlie and Grandpa trying the fizzy lifting drinks

I've always argued that the bratty girl should have been the final kid. She was clearly the anti-Charlie, the antithesis of what a deserving, good child should be. It would have been symbolic that she would have been that close to winning. I don't know if the books structured it as such, but I think it could have easily been reworked. Would her inclusion in the cowboy boy's part have detracted from it? More importantly, would the cowboy boy's exclusion in her part have been that bad?

I've always considered this the biggest blunder of the movie. I've been contemplating creating an edit of the movie to do just that. To me, the movie kinda deflates once she's out of the picture, and it's just that random schmuck cowboy. I don't know what they were thinking; I would dare say that it was an incredible blunder.

PiOverlord posted...

I've always argued that the bratty girl should have been the final kid. She was clearly the anti-Charlie, the antithesis of what a deserving, good child should be. It would have been symbolic that she would have been that close to winning. I don't know if the books structured it as such, but I think it could have easily been reworked. Would her inclusion in the cowboy boy's part have detracted from it? More importantly, would the cowboy boy's exclusion in her part have been that bad?

I've always considered this the biggest blunder of the movie. I've been contemplating creating an edit of the movie to do just that. To me, the movie kinda deflates once she's out of the picture, and it's just that random schmuck cowboy. I don't know what they were thinking; I would dare say that it was an incredible blunder.

Well, I did notice--at the very least--that while the kids discover their golden tickets in order of Augustus, Veruca, Violet, and then Mike Teavee, their eliminations follow that order except for the girls. Augustus goes first, then Violet, then Veruca, then Mike.

So in that sense, Veruca still lasts longer than she "should" according to the pattern established by the film.

TULPAMANCER posted...

Well, I did notice--at the very least--that while the kids discover their golden tickets in order of Augustus, Veruca, Violet, and then Mike Teavee, their eliminations follow that order except for the girls. Augustus goes first, then Violet, then Veruca, then Mike.

So in that sense, Veruca still lasts longer than she "should" according to the pattern established by the film.

I would gladly edit the order of them receiving the tickets too. She, to me, has always represented everything that Willy thought wrong of humanity. From that part of the movie where she's gone to the point where Mike finally leaves, it's just like "Okay, let's get on with it." It picks back up after that, but I think the sequence was just all wrong.

I could see that. Personally, I think I'd edit it so Veruca finds the first golden ticket, then Augustus, then Violet, then Mike Teavee.

But the eliminations go: Augustus, Violet, Mike, and then Veruca.

Making her the odd one out in that sense, that she breaks the pattern. She definitely seems like the most iconic character in the film. Could've made her a stronger component.

electricbugs2 posted...

Honestly besides Verucca, I didn't really think any of the kids were that bad in the original.

The Depp remake made them all so much worse.

The remake is sadly closer to the book.

TULPAMANCER posted...

I could see that. Personally, I think I'd edit it so Veruca finds the first golden ticket, then Augustus, then Violet, then Mike Teavee.

But the eliminations go: Augustus, Violet, Mike, and then Veruca.

Making her the odd one out in that sense, that she breaks the pattern. She definitely seems like the most iconic character in the film. Could've made her a stronger component.

This is a project I would love to take on. I don't really have the skills, so perhaps I could commission someone to make a budget-friendly version of this. Nothing really added; just some scenes swapped around naturally. The Veruca Cut, if you will.

TULPAMANCER posted...

He made no effort to convince Violet not to try the gum, simply casually asking Grandpa Joe "Why won't she listen to Mr. Wonka?"

He made no effort to call out to Mike Teavee not to turn himself into a guinea pig.

Veruca, yeah, Charlie really couldn't have done anything.

Of course. You cant just interrupt somebody mid-song.

ForsakenHermit posted...

The remake is sadly closer to the book.

It is in some ways and isnt in others, but even if we agree that its closer to the book, that doesnt necessarily make for a better adaptation.

Glob posted...

It is in some ways and isnt in others, but even if we agree that its closer to the book, that doesnt necessarily make for a better adaptation.

Honestly both have their strengths.

Gene Wilder is obviously a better Wonka, but I thought the bad kids were way better in the remake. Like Verucca was a great character in the first one too, but the girl they got to play her in the remake just nails it IMO. The toothy smile mixed with the little shit attitude was some great acting.

Kids are kids anyways.

Wonka could have trained
Gloop to eat less.

I actually think it's better that Veruca isn't the last. She's obviously the worst, but she's such a brat she's constantly on the edge of fucking it up. Mike Teevee isn't a monster like the others. He represents when parents don't necessarily spoil their children, but just don't pay attention and let the TV raise them. I think it's better for last kid not to be the one that so obviously was never suitable, but one that could be if only he wasn't so lacking in imagination.

Mike Teevee wasn't that bad.

Turtlemayor333 posted...

Violet wasn't that bad.

Yeah, she was kinda boorish, but I wouldn't say she was "bad"

However, the real test in Wonka wasn't that the kids misbehaved, it was whether or not they were going along with the plan to betray him

Of course, none of them except Charlie even got to the end of the tour, so....

DarkChozoGhost posted...

I actually think it's better that Veruca isn't the last. She's obviously the worst, but she's such a brat she's constantly on the edge of fucking it up. Mike Teevee isn't a monster like the others. He represents when parents don't necessarily spoil their children, but just don't pay attention and let the TV raise them. I think it's better for last kid not to be the one that so obviously was never suitable, but one that could be if only he wasn't so lacking in imagination.

Eh, it's just that, you're now fighting the henchmen after the main villain was already defeated.

To me, I think there's symbolism, that, in this tour that only the very best should survive, one of the worst could still almost make it through. It also doesn't help that Mike is so far below her, in terms of memorability that when he goes, I'm not even that satisfied. All my satisfaction was used up when Veruca was gone.

Charlie vs Veruca is the very picture of Nature vs nurture.

Gluttony is the worst sin in today's world

agoat posted...

Gluttony is the worst sin in today's world

Um no

PiOverlord posted...

I don't know if the books structured it as such, but I think it could have easily been reworked. Would her inclusion in the cowboy boy's part have detracted from it? More importantly, would the cowboy boy's exclusion in her part have been that bad?

Tbh, I think there's a good chance Dahl just genuinely thought watching TV was worse than being spoiled.

I love this topic

pegusus123456 posted...

Tbh, I think there's a good chance Dahl just genuinely thought watching TV was worse than being spoiled.

It would make some sense given the values of his generation as well as his own upbringing (he came from money, so he was always out doing things and not idling away, i.e. the great criticism of the TV generations(s)).

Who hears the phrase "experimental gum", and instantly thinks chewing on it is a good idea?

008Zulu posted...

Who hears the phrase "experimental gum", and instantly thinks chewing on it is a good idea?

The same people who steal fizzy lifting drinks and nearly get sucked into a fan...

But he's fat so fuck him.

pegusus123456 posted...

Tbh, I think there's a good chance Dahl just genuinely thought watching TV was worse than being spoiled.

Dahl had a tendency to write 2D cartoon characters as villains. He also had a massive hate boner for TV and thought it would stop people from reading.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Dahl had a tendency to write 2D cartoon characters as villains. He also had a massive hate boner for TV and thought it would stop people from reading.

Is that why he wrote that James Bond movie?