Current Events > As long as someone is remorseful, do you believe everyone deserves redemption?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like a chance at redemption if theyre truly remorseful. What are your views on crime and justice? Ive found Ive gotten less and less retributive over the years, but I dont know if thats just being too extreme with the golden rule.

I want to add it really freaks me out when people believe in the death penalty. I honestly like that Batman doesnt kill despite his human limitations. Its pretty brave and progressive.

No. Some people are beyond redemption. They are lesser than beasts.

Remorse is not sufficient for reparation, IMO. You must make amends, as a person, for the harm that you have done.

Our prison system doesn't facilitate healing, to say the least, only retribution, suffering, and moral decay.

I think rape and murder are the only two things that can never be forgiven.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Remorse is not sufficient for reparation, IMO. You must make amends, as a person, for the harm that you have done.

Our prison system doesn't facilitate healing, to say the least, only retribution, suffering, and moral decay.

OK, what if theyre willing to make amends though? I just specify remorse cause thats the least someone can do to show theyve changed. Some things feel unrecoverable. But I dont think that should mean the end of someones freedom entirely.

FortuneCookie posted...

I think rape and murder are the only two things that can never be forgiven.

So what does a lack of forgiveness look like to you, and why do you hold this view?

BloodMoon7 posted...

No. Some people are beyond redemption. They are lesser than beasts.

How can a remorseful person be beyond redemption iyo?

Jagus posted...

OK, what if theyre willing to make amends though? I just specify remorse cause thats the least someone can do to show theyve changed. Some things feel unrecoverable. But I dont think that should mean the end of someones freedom entirely.

No amount of remorse will undo the harm someone has done in the case of rape or murder. No amount of making amends can bring a person back from the dead.

Jagus posted...

How can a remorseful person be beyond redemption iyo?

Just cause you feel bad and want to make it better don't mean you can. Sometimes what you destroyed can't be returned, sometimes trying causes the victims even more pain. Best you can hope for is that the law will be merciful because people don't gotta forgive you.

Forgive yourself if you must. Hopefully that saves you.

ScazarMeltex posted...

No amount of remorse will undo the harm someone has done in the case of rape or murder. No amount of making amends can bring a person back from the dead.

True, but rape doesnt kill people. Usually.

BloodMoon7 posted...

Just cause you feel bad and want to make it better don't mean you can. Sometimes what you destroyed can't be returned, sometimes trying causes the victims even more pain. Best you can hope for is that the law will be merciful because people don't gotta forgive you.

Forgive yourself if you must. Hopefully that saves you.

But why shouldnt we be merciful towards others? Does killing people or depriving others of freedom make our society better? I honestly dont get the logic anymore.

Jagus posted...

True, but rape doesnt kill people. Usually.

Kills them on the inside, which some might say is a fate worse than death. That person has to live with that trauma. You can't unrape them, even if you feel remorseful later. What would you even do to make amends there? Sorry I violated you, here's a $50 Amazon gift card? Jeez.

Jagus posted...

But why shouldnt we be merciful towards others? Does killing people or depriving others of freedom make our society better? I honestly dont get the logic anymore.

We should be as merciful as the criminal was. If you WANT to be more merciful than that, that's fine. But you don't HAVE to be. I wouldn't ask a victim of a horrible crime to be forgiving of it. And potentially that criminal killed someone or deprived them of a freedom. Why should they be granted anything?

BloodMoon7 posted...

Kills them on the inside, which some might say is a fate worse than death. That person has to live with that trauma. You can't unrape them, even if you feel remorseful later. What would you even do to make amends there? Sorry I violated you, here's a $50 Amazon gift card? Jeez.

I disagree strongly and I think thats insulting to survivors honestly. Having something awful and traumatic happen to you isnt worse than being literally dead. That sends a bad message.

I dont know how youd make amends though. I made this topic to see the many faces of justice.

BloodMoon7 posted...

We should be as merciful as the criminal was. If you WANT to be more merciful than that, that's fine. But you don't HAVE to be. I wouldn't ask a victim of a horrible crime to be forgiving of it. And potentially that criminal killed someone or deprived them of a freedom. Why should they be granted anything?

Because two wrongs dont make a right? Because a redeemed person can make society better? There are plenty of reasons.

If you know for certain someone will no longer do whatever bad things they might have done in the past, then whatever punishment you might visit upon them is emotional, not rational.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

If you know for certain someone will no longer do whatever bad things they might have done in the past, then whatever punishment you might visit upon them is emotional, not rational.

True. I wonder if its emotional on my part to not want to hurt people though, and if thats therefore wrong.

Why not? It clearly worked for both John and Arthur after all.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

If you know for certain someone will no longer do whatever bad things they might have done in the past, then whatever punishment you might visit upon them is emotional, not rational.

And so if someone murders someone, but you know they won't murder anyone in the future then you should just let them go free?

Jagus posted...

I disagree strongly and I think thats insulting to survivors honestly. Having something awful and traumatic happen to you isnt worse than being literally dead. That sends a bad message.

I dont know how youd make amends though. I made this topic to see the many faces of justice.

Hence why I'd say that some might say that. I understand the reality is more nuanced. However the reality is also that the criminal violated someone. You don't even have an idea of how to make amends for that and you would put forth such a flimsy argument... Foolish.

Jagus posted...

Because two wrongs dont make a right? Because a redeemed person can make society better? There are plenty of reasons.

They may not make a right but a murderer or a rapist will no longer hurt anyone else. Such people are unlikely to improve society on a scale comparable to the crime. You want to improve society, go educate people on what we do to criminals.

If you want to argue hard facts, every imprisoned person is a blow to the economy and a lost investment. How can you say people cant be rehabilitated if you dont even give them a chance, anyway?

it depends on their age imo. if they like killed someone before they turned 25 ok i think they can be redeemed. i didnt even know it was wrong to murder people when I was younger. thought it was ok because of movies. I'm sure many kids feel that way too which explains all the violence

Jagus posted...

If you want to argue hard facts, every imprisoned person is a blow to the economy and a lost investment. How can you say people cant be rehabilitated if you dont even give them a chance, anyway?

We just need to bring back the guillotine, put the fear of death back in the hearts of man.

Puss in Boots laughs in the face of death!

BloodMoon7 posted...

You want to improve society, go educate people on what we do to criminals.

Based, though I dont think thats going to win you any friends among the folks who wish to reform the justice system, unfortunately.

yes. life is precious, there's only one.