Current Events > It amazes me that Yu-Gi-Oh have some terrible archetypes.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ally of Justice, Red-Eyes, Ice Barrier, Genex, Destruction Sword, B.E.S. Vandread, Summon Skull, Gemini, LV monsters, etc.. The list goes on. The worst part is that when Konami makes new support for them, most of the time it doesn't exactly fix the problem. In fact it makes them worse.

Any other Yu-Gi-Oh players feel the same way? If given the chance, how would you fix them?

Most of the bad ones were made in a different era, honestly. GX and Duel Terminal stuff are some particular stinkers in terms of comp ability, but while GX has had reworks/buffs to a lo of stuff, DT really never got the chance because they'd have individually strong boss cards

The game has been out for 20+ years so of course some archetypes are gonna be ass. It's cool when retrains or new support comes out tho that makes archetypes cool/somewhat useful

Touch posted...

The game has been out for 20+ years so of course some archetypes are gonna be ass. It's cool when retrains or new support comes out tho that makes archetypes cool/somewhat useful

This

Not enough hero supports

Phoenixeater posted...

Gemini, LV monsters

To be fair, both of these came out before "archetypes" were the design standard. They were experimenting with different mechanics relatively early in the game's life, so I'm not surprised they got some wrong.

Only way to fix Gemini is to erratta the whole lot so they count as normal monsters in the deck and can be searched by normal monster support like Unexpected Dai, Painful Decision, and Rescue Rabbit. Though I think it would be very misguided to make an entire "gemini" deck. These were clearly designed to be situational support for other decks, with the "cost" of the effect being an extra normal summon.

The whole concept of level monsters (rewarding skillful play by giving you a stronger monster when conditions are met) has been powercrept by virtually every post-fusion summoning mechanic. Could conceivably be playable by turning the main deck into a pseudo-extra deck for LV archetypes, but you'd have to give the higher level monsters hand effects so they're not bricks. (Sort of like Nekroz's approach to solving some of Ritual monsters' problems)

Red-Eyes I'm just convinced is an Open Beta archetype meant to test mechanics that get used by much better cards later in the game's life. >_>

Yeah imagine if they made an in-archetype Ally of Justice that turned all monsters on the field to Light.

They will never make Geminis good though. I refuse to believe it's possible. I mean they CAN just put up a non OPT omni-negater and just call it a day, and I'm not sure if it'll still be meta lmao.

I believe B.E.S. has plays though. There are archetypes that literally have no plays, and they got plays.

Technically Red Eyes can also get away with slapping Dragoon on the field, but he's unfairly banned in Master Duel, even though DPE is so much better.

legendarylemur posted...

Yeah imagine if they made an in-archetype Ally of Justice that turned all monsters on the field to Light.

Buster Blader got it instead

legendarylemur posted...

They will never make Geminis good though. I refuse to believe it's possible. I mean they CAN just put up a non OPT omni-negater and just call it a day, and I'm not sure if it'll still be meta lmao.

If you look at all the gemini monsters, the thing you quickly realize is that the vast majority of them wouldn't even be good without the gemini restriction. The first step to fixing the concept is to actually give them good effects.

Look at Skelesaurus. A zombie monster, so in theory it should be viable to use since zombies rarely need their normal summon after the first turn and can special summon consistently. But even if you do special it (with something like Call of the Mummy, Book of Life, etc), you normal summon it so it turns into a dinosaur and loses all its synergy with your other zombie cards. (Unless it's meant for Zombie World decks, in which case, why bother with the type change?) And the payoff is a shittier version of Zombie Master, a card printed 6 years earlier.

What deck was this even printed for?!

Gemini should never be good imo. Its a subtype that relies heavily on normal summon like flooandbreeze. Have you ever wonder why Toon subtype is still mid despite contant wave of supports? Because it came from an era where they havent fully relies the mechanic yet. Heck, toon should've not debut in duelist kingdom because most of their gimmick was special summoning a toon version of already establish monster like dark magician and manga ryuran when direct attacking mechanic didnt being implemented yet at that time.

Kafkaf posted...

Buster Blader got it instead

With Buster Dragon.

legendarylemur posted...

They will never make Geminis good though. I refuse to believe it's possible

They've tried with Chemicritters and they still suck.

DB_Insider posted...

Not enough hero supports

Where have you been the last 2-4 years. There were new HERO support.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Most of the bad ones were made in a different era, honestly. GX and Duel Terminal stuff are some particular stinkers in terms of comp ability, but while GX has had reworks/buffs to a lo of stuff, DT really never got the chance because they'd have individually strong boss cards

I was extremely with the new Ice Barrier support since nearly all the cards are trash. The only semi-decent ones are the Trishula retrains.

Age isn't really a excuse for how bad some of these archetypes are when blue eyes, and dark magician now are decent. And ones like heros went from being nearly unplayable to a good rough deck with only a few years of support.

Red eyes is a archetype though they intentionally gimp for whatever reason, and crystal beast while pretty goodi think doesn't make up for only 2-3 of their monsters being good.

And a ultimate boss monster that requires a brick monatwr on top of even more bricks to utilize.

I don't understand why they have to reinvent the wheel every time they release new Red-Eyes support. Are they a burn deck? A fusion deck? An XYZ deck?

I'd like to try building a red eyes deck but it's just not viable even for fun. I've stuck with blue eyes for years now and I'm surprised it's gotten consistent support despite it nit being competitive.

What are like the worst archetypes ever? Like ones that have never been good.

uwnim posted...

What are like the worst archetypes ever? Like ones that have never been good.

Pure Neo spacians off the top of my head. And before Neosho fusion came out was completely unplayable even in hero hybrid builds. Actually they made the deck worse even.

uwnim posted...

What are like the worst archetypes ever? Like ones that have never been good.

You wanna go down a fun youtube rabbit hole?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv2HXWpLrx3cB0jpDzNsoFJ0NhP0DOFBL

they're just there to fill booster packs

ice barriers last new support was actually solid and fixed a lot of the decks problems
its not meta but it allowed it to be decent in casual play for awhile

Prismsblade posted...

Age isn't really a excuse for how bad some of these archetypes are when blue eyes, and dark magician now are decent. And ones like heros went from being nearly unplayable to a good rough deck with only a few years of support.

Red eyes is a archetype though they intentionally gimp for whatever reason, and crystal beast while pretty goodi think doesn't make up for only 2-3 of their monsters being good.

And a ultimate boss monster that requires a brick monatwr on top of even more bricks to utilize.

I mean...Blue Eyes, DM and Heroes are the mascot archetypes of the whole game p much, so of course they'll get continuous support. And even then, "decent" is subjective, as they're not even really rogue tier.

Prismsblade posted...

Pure Neo spacians off the top of my head. And before Neosho fusion came out was completely unplayable even in hero hybrid builds. Actually they made the deck worse even.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

You wanna go down a fun youtube rabbit hole?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv2HXWpLrx3cB0jpDzNsoFJ0NhP0DOFBL

Oh god. I just watched the Neo Space one and that really does sound unplayable.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

You wanna go down a fun youtube rabbit hole?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv2HXWpLrx3cB0jpDzNsoFJ0NhP0DOFBL

The Ice Barrier video got removed for some reason.

Edit: it was on the Archetype Archive playlist.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

You wanna go down a fun youtube rabbit hole?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv2HXWpLrx3cB0jpDzNsoFJ0NhP0DOFBL

I miss Rata.

uwnim posted...

What are like the worst archetypes ever? Like ones that have never been good.

Red-Eyes and Ice Barrier are just two examples. This video talks about the latter. GoldenNovaYuGiOh explain all the effects of the monsters in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBihYQRWIM

Oh you want more support for older archetypes? Have this sky striker support instead

Phantom_Nook posted...

I miss Rata.

He's still being funny on Twitter, but yeah I think he lost his drive to do videos

uwnim posted...

What are like the worst archetypes ever? Like ones that have never been good.

Honestly that also depends on the definition of good. Ally of Justice has never been playable. But a great majority of YGO decks are technically playable and technically winnable, though you'd have to stretch the definition of an archetype deck pretty thin by having generic powerful cards.

Vylons were also fairly bad throughout its life, but it's never in that like pathetic tier because it can do one good thing that's impossible to setup consistently. Also the thing that you can use to truly abuse Vylons (non-archetypal) is banned, for a good reason.

Genex is also pretty bad I think, but weirdly enough Genex Undine has seen play in wide variety of places, just not enough to bolster the mountain of useless ass cards in Genex.

Also some archetypes were only good in Duel Links, like Fur Hires. But Fur Hires have always been playable and have the typical good stuff tools that modern archetypes will always have, just that they're inconsistent for what they are, which is just unga bunga barf hand beat down