Poll of the Day > There's nothing wrong with spanking your kids

(+) Yeah! (+)

In video games

Or in real life provided its not excessive or unwarranted.

but these days turning off their technology archives a greater result than spanking ever did.

cut off their cell phone you cut off their entire social life.

Or in real life.

Conner4REAL posted...

Or in real life provided its not excessive or unwarranted.

Given that there are almost no situations where another discipline strategy won't work just as well or better, it's almost always excessive and unwarranted.

Arv doesnt spank his kid and it shows telling kids what they did wrong and explaining the effects of what they do and taking things away doesnt work too good. They just dont care because theres nothing that concerns them

Arv was like if Arv knew he wasnt going to get spanked as a kid and just talked to about it. Life as a kid wouldve been a cake walk and Arv would do more stuff without the feelings of any procautions

adjl posted...

Given that there are almost no situations where another discipline strategy won't work just as well or better, it's almost always excessive and unwarranted.

If another discipline strategy works

LinkPizza posted...

If another discipline strategy works

Adjl is correct. Other alternatives are always better. Not only that, spanking isn't actually guaranteed to work because if you were a kid like me, it got to a point where my mom didn't want to have to spank me hard enough with a belt to make me not laugh it off and pretend it didn't hurt. And no, you shouldn't beat the shit out of your kids

OhhhJa posted...

Adjl is correct. Other alternatives are always better. Not only that, spanking isn't actually guaranteed to work because if you were a kid like me, it got to a point where my mom didn't want to have to spank me hard enough with a belt to make me not laugh it off and pretend it didn't hurt. And no, you shouldn't beat the shit out of your kids

I disagree that other alternatives are always better. I think it depends on the kid. Like how you said spanking didnt work on you. But they did for me At one point, the other disciplinary methods didnt really work So, I think it depends on the child Spanking isnt guaranteed to work, but none of them are

LinkPizza posted...

I disagree that other alternatives are always better. I think it depends on the kid. Like how you said spanking didnt work on you. But they did for me At one point, the other disciplinary methods didnt really work So, I think it depends on the child Spanking isnt guaranteed to work, but none of them are

I know people who were spanked as a kid and are good, successful people in adulthood. But numerous studies have shown the negative effects it can have on a child. It's literally physical abuse and that's not something you should ever inflict on anyone you love. Yes, even children deserve the respect of not being beaten.

Children can be disciplined in more productive ways that don't involve violence. Spanking is for the lazy and uneducated and is not an appropriate response to your child acting out

Literally every study done on the subject of physically punishing your kids has shown that it's almost always detrimental to their development and mental health, but terrible people just keep on finding excuses and justifications to beat their kids.

OhhhJa posted...

I know people who were spanked as a kid and are good, successful people in adulthood. But numerous studies have shown the negative effects it can have on a child. It's literally physical abuse and that's not something you should ever inflict on anyone you love. Yes, even children deserve the respect of not being beaten.

Children can be disciplined in more productive ways that don't involve violence. Spanking is for the lazy and uneducated and is not an appropriate response to your child acting out

Disagree with you and Agree with Link. Spanking is clearly different from a beating.

OhhhJa posted...

I know people who were spanked as a kid and are good, successful people in adulthood. But numerous studies have shown the negative effects it can have on a child. It's literally physical abuse and that's not something you should ever inflict on anyone you love. Yes, even children deserve the respect of not being beaten.

Children can be disciplined in more productive ways that don't involve violence. Spanking is for the lazy and uneducated and is not an appropriate response to your child acting out

Yeah. I heard about it. But I guess I never hear what the negative consequences are Not only that, but it can be hard to pin it down what actually causes stuff. I would think it changes something, but not sure what exactly

Like I said, I just think it depends on the child. That said, I also dont think it works as much if you use it all the time Normally, it was if I did something really bad Or if I kept acting out and other methods werent working

LinkPizza posted...

Not only that, but it can be hard to pin it down what actually causes stuff

Well, this is why peer reviewed studies are done. That way we don't have to guess about it

OhhhJa posted...

Well, this is why peer reviewed studies are done. That way we don't have to guess about it

I dont think the problem is with who did it. The problem is that with children (especially children), theres already so much other stuff thats shaping who they will be And because it happened so long ago from when they were children, its hard to tell what spanking actually did Like I never hear what the negative consequences are, I guess Its always just vague

bo_danvers posted...

Disagree with you and Agree with Link. Spanking is clearly different from a beating.

I mean, the general idea behind spanking is that your children won't repeat their behavior because they're afraid you will hit them and hurt them. I don't see how that isn't beating. Yeah, you aren't mangling them but it's still violence. Parenting requires patience and maturity. Spanking demonstrates neither

LinkPizza posted...

I dont think the problem is with who did it. The problem is that with children (especially children), theres already so much other stuff thats shaping who they will be And because it happened so long ago from when they were children, its hard to tell what spanking actually did Like I never hear what the negative consequences are, I guess Its always just vague

Again, it just sounds like you haven't read any studies or didn't understand them

OhhhJa posted...

Well, this is why peer reviewed studies are done. That way we don't have to guess about it

Not that I completely disagree, but just because a study is "peer-reviewed" doesn't mean it is a quality study.

Also, if I just google 'studies on spanking' one of the first results mentions 13 of 19 studies said it had a negative affect. It isn't 100%.

OhhhJa posted...

Again, it just sounds like you haven't read any studies or didn't understand them

Ive read some a while back. And it mentions negative effects. But I still dont know what those are. And some even said before that its hard to pin down because the child is still growing and learning But if you did read them, you could just tell me what the negative effects are, right?

Increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children

I find it baffling that this information has eluded you tbh

OhhhJa posted...

Increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children

I find it baffling that this information has eluded you tbh

I guess Idk. All I have is anecdotal evidence. But its way different from those things

LinkPizza posted...

If another discipline strategy works

There's almost always something else that will work better than spanking. That's the simple reality of the matter. People cling to spanking because they don't want to have to think or admit that their family/friends were/are physically abusive, but pretending that truth doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.

bo_danvers posted...

Not that I completely disagree, but just because a study is "peer-reviewed" doesn't mean it is a quality study.

It does, however, make it more credible than "I was spanked and I turned out fine, so spanking is okay!" Especially where, by saying that, you are literally justifying the use of violence to solve a problem that can be solved non-violently, demonstrating that you did not, in fact, "turn out fine."

LinkPizza posted...

I guess Idk. All I have is anecdotal evidence. But its way different from those things

Well, I even mentioned that I have friends who were spanked and turned out fine. That doesn't mean it's right or that they still haven't been negatively impacted in some way

adjl posted...

There's almost always something else that will work better than spanking. That's the simple reality of the matter. People cling to spanking because they don't want to have to think or admit that their family/friends were/are physically abusive, but pretending that truth doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.

Idk I think theres usually something better that works. But sometimes, when nothing else works for certain children, a spanking might work No guarantees, but it can work in some cases where nothing else does

An anecdote from me... I was spanked as a child but my wife and i refuse to spank our daughter. She's nearly 3 now and extremely well behaved because I think we've done a good job parenting her without resorting to spanking

OhhhJa posted...

Well, I even mentioned that I have friends who were spanked and turned out fine. That doesn't mean it's right or that they still haven't been negatively impacted in some way

I guess That said, even the negative things that happen to people could have been caused by something else

OhhhJa posted...

An anecdote from me... I was spanked as a child but my wife and i refuse to spank our daughter. She's nearly 3 now and extremely well behaved because I think we've done a good job parenting her without resorting to spanking

Right. But I never said every child needed to be spanked, or that it worked for everyone I just said for some children, it could be needed if nothing else works

LinkPizza posted...

I guess That said, even the negative things that happen to people could have been caused by something else

Dude... do you not think that peer reviewed studies take other factors into account? I don't believe you've actually read any when you say they mention negative effects but don't say what. Every one I've read does, in fact, mention what the negative effects seem to be. And, on top of that, they're pretty consistent across the board

LinkPizza posted... Idk

I think theres usually something better that works. But sometimes, when nothing else works for certain children, a spanking might work No guarantees, but it can work in some cases where nothing else does

Absolute statements are often a bad idea, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing that absolutely none of the people whose anecdotes you're sharing have truly tried everything else. They tried a couple different things, got frustrated, and enjoyed the immediate results of taking out those frustrations physically instead of putting actual effort into finding an alternative.

LinkPizza posted...

That said, even the negative things that happen to people could have been caused by something else

Competent experimental design minimizes that possibility to enough of an extent that they can much more credibly say "spanking is the most likely causal variable here" than you can say "well maybe there was just something else you didn't notice in all of those different cases."

Some of ya need this https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/7/4/AAcpmVAAD-N6.jpg

Kids should be allowed to spank bad parents, ya?

OhhhJa posted...

Dude... do you not think that peer reviewed studies take other factors into account? I don't believe you've actually read any when you say they mention negative effects but don't say what. Every one I've read does, in fact, mention what the negative effects seem to be. And, on top of that, they're pretty consistent across the board

I dont know what they take into account, tbh Or how they would even separate that data And you dont have to believe me. Im not going to try to prove it to you. I read it some years (or however long ago it was) back on a different board I dont remember everything of it And I havent read anything about it since since its not a subject I care that much about

adjl posted...

Absolute statements are often a bad idea, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing that absolutely none of the people whose anecdotes you're sharing have truly tried everything else. They tried a couple different things, got frustrated, and enjoyed the immediate results of taking out those frustrations physically instead of putting actual effort into finding an alternative.

I never said they tried everything That said, Im not every sure that everything they could have tried would be feasible or better And theres always still the possibility that it wouldnt have worked, even if they had tried it In the end, spanking did work, though Idk

adjl posted...

Competent experimental design minimizes that possibility to enough of an extent that they can much more credibly say "spanking is the most likely causal variable here" than you can say "well maybe there was just something else you didn't notice in all of those different cases."

The problem is that its still hard to tie it to one thing Especially when nobody is usually around the kid 24/7 And even then, it still could end up being hard to prove what caused it

LinkPizza posted...

I never said they tried everything

LinkPizza posted...

if nothing else works

In order to determine that nothing else works, you need to try everything.

LinkPizza posted...

That said, Im not every sure that everything they could have tried would be feasible or better

Feasibility can be a question, especially when it comes to cases where the root issue requires actual therapy (which is often prohibitively expensive), but virtually everything else is going to have fewer negative effects than spanking.

LinkPizza posted...

The problem is that its still hard to tie it to one thing Especially when nobody is usually around the kid 24/7 And even then, it still could end up being hard to prove what caused it

Take a step back and think about what you're suggesting: That in every single study on spanking that has ever associated it with negative outcomes, every single subject who experienced negative outcomes and was also spanked just happened to have some other experiences that led to those negative outcomes independently of spanking, that were not noticed or accounted for by those conducting the studies. Even more ridiculously, you're saying this not based on conducting your own review of a significant, representative sample of these studies and finding methodological errors that would create a significant risk of the study's conclusion being affected by confounding variables, you're saying this because you think it might be an issue but refuse to put any actual thought or effort into forming your opinion.

Quite simply, you've already decided what you want your opinion to be, and you're ignoring reams upon reams of actual empirical evidence collected by people who know far more about the subject than you ever will in favour of your vague hunch that you could maybe sort of be right if all of those people made a mistake that you aren't going to think about the plausibility of. Stop it. That's not how logic and reasoning work.

Again, I understand the reluctance to accept that spanking is bad. You know people who have spanked their kids whom you would broadly consider to be good people, so when faced with the idea that they're actually child abusers, you end up with no shortage of cognitive dissonance. Accept that. You can recognize that those people did something wrong and still consider them to be good people. As far as child abuse goes, spanking is pretty mild and is often done out of ignorance and misinformation instead of genuine malice or abusive tendencies, so it's not particularly hard to forgive others (or yourself) for making that mistake instead of considering it a grievous moral failure. Do not, however, try to justify the behaviour by spreading further misinformation. You've been given the opportunity to know better. To act as though you haven't is a moral failure.

Some kids need to be spanked. To do it right, it's gotta be quick though. It's like learning to not touch the stove by touching a hot burner. That's how it gets ingrained to not do something.
Once spanking is just a punishment, the point can be lost. As others have said, it should be a last resort thing. Again, like a hot stove top, you can educate them to not touch it, and hopefully most won't, but some will only learn by touching it and having a negative sensation associated with it.

Ive got spanked as a kid myself and learned from it.

adjl posted...

In order to determine that nothing else works, you need to try everything.

Yeah And? I never said thats what our parents did, did I? I just said she would if what I did was super bad, or if I kept acting out and other methods werent working. I never said she tried all other options, though For what I said to OhhhJa, it was I just said for some children, it could be needed if nothing else works So, two different things, technically

adjl posted...

Feasibility can be a question, especially when it comes to cases where the root issue requires actual therapy (which is often prohibitively expensive), but virtually everything else is going to have fewer negative effects than spanking.

Maybe Maybe not Like I said before, I think that depends on the child

adjl posted...

Take a step back and think about what you're suggesting: That in every single study on spanking that has ever associated it with negative outcomes, every single subject who experienced negative outcomes and was also spanked just happened to have some other experiences that led to those negative outcomes independently of spanking, that were not noticed or accounted for by those conducting the studies. Even more ridiculously, you're saying this not based on conducting your own review of a significant, representative sample of these studies and finding methodological errors that would create a significant risk of the study's conclusion being affected by confounding variables, you're saying this because you think it might be an issue but refuse to put any actual thought or effort into forming your opinion.

Quite simply, you've already decided what you want your opinion to be, and you're ignoring reams upon reams of actual empirical evidence collected by people who know far more about the subject than you ever will in favour of your vague hunch that you could maybe sort of be right if all of those people made a mistake that you aren't going to think about the plausibility of. Stop it. That's not how logic and reasoning work.

Again, I understand the reluctance to accept that spanking is bad. You know people who have spanked their kids whom you would broadly consider to be good people, so when faced with the idea that they're actually child abusers, you end up with no shortage of cognitive dissonance. Accept that. You can recognize that those people did something wrong and still consider them to be good people. As far as child abuse goes, spanking is pretty mild and is often done out of ignorance and misinformation instead of genuine malice or abusive tendencies, so it's not particularly hard to forgive others (or yourself) for making that mistake instead of considering it a grievous moral failure. Do not, however, try to justify the behaviour by spreading further misinformation. You've been given the opportunity to know better. To act as though you haven't is a moral failure.

There are a lot of things that are the same with kids, even among the differences. So, I think its totally plausible that the negative outcomes could have come from different things. That said, I also including spanking. Because some of them still could have got it from spanking That said, another reason is because after reading about Entitled Kids and stuff, it sounds like a lot of those entitled kids have some of the negative consequences. Like the aggressiveness and anti-social behavior And those kids usually havent been spanked (or disciplined at all, in some cases) But thats just from what I see, so But I do put thought into my opinion. And thats where my thoughts lead me to

Well, most people have already decided what their opinion is or will be Sometimes, people change their opinion, and sometimes they dont. In this case, I dont really see a need to change my opinion on what I think Not am I trying to change anyone elses opinion Plus, I base it on what I see in life Which is very different from the evidence science has collected

I just personally dont think its bad. I dont think it should be used before trying other methods. And I also think its should be for really bad things. But I dont think its bad as a whole Nor do I think parents who spank are child abusers Especially if were talking about parents of friends and family, as it was a different time That said, I also dont think of parents today that spank as child abusers, either Nor do I think it was wrong And I dont see my opinion on that ever changing

LinkPizza posted...

Plus, I base it on what I see in life Which is very different from the evidence science has collected

And this right here should tell you to re-evaluate what you see. Those who have made careers out of analyzing such matters aren't automatically going to be right about them in every case, but if they disagree with your impression as a layperson, there's a very good chance your impression is wrong and you should put some effort into reconciling your views. You may in fact not be wrong, but you need to put work into proving yourself right that measures up to the work that's already been done that proves you wrong if you want to legitimately believe that.

To further drive the point home, what you're doing is identical to the thought process followed by anti-vaxxers: They don't see the harm associated with vaccine-preventable illnesses and they do see what their layperson interpretation leads them to believe is evidence of vaccine injuries, so they ignore what those who understand the illnesses and the true nature of those apparent injuries say about the overall risk analysis and erroneously conclude that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent. It's a terrible idea there, and it's a terrible idea here and anywhere else you might think to employ it.

LinkPizza posted...

Especially if were talking about parents of friends and family, as it was a different time

A different time in which it was socially acceptable and the fact that it does more harm than good had yet to be determined. That's what I'm getting at with the ignorance/misinformation point, and that's really the only salient manner in which the times differ.

adjl posted...

And this right here should tell you to re-evaluate what you see. Those who have made careers out of analyzing such matters aren't automatically going to be right about them in every case, but if they disagree with your impression as a layperson, there's a very good chance your impression is wrong and you should put some effort into reconciling your views. You may in fact not be wrong, but you need to put work into proving yourself right that measures up to the work that's already been done that proves you wrong if you want to legitimately believe that.

To further drive the point home, what you're doing is identical to the thought process followed by anti-vaxxers: They don't see the harm associated with vaccine-preventable illnesses and they do see what their layperson interpretation leads them to believe is evidence of vaccine injuries, so they ignore what those who understand the illnesses and the true nature of those apparent injuries say about the overall risk analysis and erroneously conclude that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent. It's a terrible idea there, and it's a terrible idea here and anywhere else you might think to employ it.

I mean, I understand what science says. Its just hard for me to believe it still when everything Ibe seen in my life suggest otherwise Thats all

With vaccines, I can actually see them working, which is different The different between them is the actual science for me With vaccines, its more of a this is how it works. This is the percentage it will work, stuff like that. Where when it comes to spanking, its more of less educated guesses Or, at least, thats what it feels like when I see it. Only because there dont really feel like hard lines being drawn. It more like, these kids were all spanked, and are showing similar things. It feels not like normal science things that are easy to see If you want to say its like anti-Vaxxer, thats fine. Thats just how I feel about it

adjl posted...

A different time in which it was socially acceptable and the fact that it does more harm than good had yet to be determined. That's what I'm getting at with the ignorance/misinformation point, and that's really the only salient manner in which the times differ.

And tbh, Im still not sure it does more harm than good if used responsibly But thats just how I feel

Ah, so what I'm seeing is that hitting your children is ok as long as you do it quickly and they don't realize that you're abusing them

Smacking a kid on the butt isn't abuse, there's a huge difference between spanking and actual child abuse

Bunch of cavemen here

Muscles posted...

Smacking a kid on the butt isn't abuse, there's a huge difference between spanking and actual child abuse

What if the spanking causes injuries? Seems like it would definitely be child abuse in that case.

SoreChasm posted...

What if the spanking causes injuries? Seems like it would definitely be child abuse in that case.

If you cause injuries from spanking then you are spanking too hard

Muscles posted...

If you cause injuries from spanking then you are spanking too hard

Seems like there isn't a "huge difference" like you said, though.

There is, not injuring your kids is very different from injuring your kids, the goal isn't to hurt them

You gotta hit them just enough not to show any marks guys

Do you also hit your gf/wife when you feel like she's acting inappropriately? She's got to learn after all

Muscles posted...

the goal isn't to hurt them

It's just to cause them some pain and humiliation, right?

Conner4REAL posted...

Or in real life

bo_danvers posted...

Or in real life.

glad I live in a country where it is actually illegal

studies show it does nothing beneficial at best, and often harmful by making aggression and negative behaviour worse. so no, get rid of this archaic ignorant practice.

https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20210629/spanking-leads-to-worse-behavior-study-says

OhhhJa posted...

Ah, so what I'm seeing is that hitting your children is ok as long as you do it quickly and they don't realize that you're abusing them

no sense in doing it quickly gotta let it set in