Current Events > The conservative mindset makes a lot more sense when you understand one thing

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 6:37:53 AM
#1:


Conservatives don't govern based on how the world is, but rather how it "ought to be". For them, the role of government isn't necessarily to reconcile the more unsavory aspects of capitalism with democracy (as Democrats/Liberals would) but rather to force society into their idealized version of the world. When you pay close attention to their policy positions, on the surface level, yes there's a lot of denial of obvious facts. But it goes deeper than that. They KNOW their policies aren't based in any factual evidence, but that does not matter to them because at the end of the day, their main goal isn't to deal with reality; it's to reshape it.

Minimum wage fast food jobs? In their eyes, these jobs SHOULD be meant for teenagers, therefore the goal for them is to force this to be the case by making it impossible for an adult to survive on these wages. It doesn't matter that it's actually mostly adults working these jobs because all that matters to a conservative is that they shouldn't be.

Teens shouldn't be having sex. Therefore, the focus of government in this case should be to discourage them from having sex, not dealing with the fact that they do, and making sure they're being safe about it.

Society should be meritocratic. It isn't, but it should be. Therefore, we should force it to be meritocratic by punishing the working poor until they're compelled to "do better".

The U.S. should be a Christian nation. It isn't, but maybe we can make it so by cramming Christianity down everybody's throats and basing our laws around "Christian values".

You can do this for nearly every policy position Republicans/conservatives take and it will make perfect sense. It's why it's impossible to argue with someone on the right on the basis of facts, because facts don't matter nearly as much to them as ideals do. It also explains why the right is so quick to adopt authoritarianism, because you can't exactly achieve these ideals through democracy, especially when they're unpopular beliefs.

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MedeaLysistrata
11/09/22 6:46:51 AM
#3:


I wonder if it really does make more sense when you have money/something that will go unmentioned that is adjacent to money

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 6:47:14 AM
#4:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Not entirely wrong. But I feel like this is a bit of an oversimplification.

Even their hatred towards things that aren't "traditional" is based around idealism and not pragmatism. They don't want gay people to exist because gay people do not fit into their idealized version of reality. All the hatred and spite follows that.

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 6:54:56 AM
#6:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Their bigotry comes from wanting to preserve a socioeconomic hierarchy that, in their eyes, is diminishing. Even if it's on a subconscious level, they've been conditioned their entire lives to view society as purely hierarchal.

Don't get me wrong, they're racist as fuck but it's also because they've grown up in an America where straight white men (them) were always on top. They've been conditioned to believe this is the "ideal" society (in large part thanks to ultra-nationalism and American exceptionalism), and any action that follows is a desperate attempt to cling to this version of reality.

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Jiek_Fafn
11/09/22 6:59:38 AM
#7:


The whole concept of political beliefs is based on how you think the world should be. Democrats are no different in that regard. They just feel that minorities should be allowed to exist and women shouldn't be treated like property. That type of thing.

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Intro2Logic
11/09/22 7:04:01 AM
#8:


Jiek_Fafn posted...
The whole concept of political beliefs is based on how you think the world should be.
Yeah this topic really doesn't seem well thought out

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CyricZ
11/09/22 7:05:48 AM
#9:


More specifically, they want to "turn back time". They want a simpler time. A time where there weren't the worries we have now.

A time that never actually existed.

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 7:11:45 AM
#11:


Jiek_Fafn posted...
The whole concept of political beliefs is based on how you think the world should be. Democrats are no different in that regard. They just feel that minorities should be allowed to exist and women shouldn't be treated like property. That type of thing.

This is definitely true to an extent and it's not really meant to be a binary thing. It's more of a spectrum.

Like, Democrats have their idealized version of society too, but they are also much more willing to deal with material reality. Their approach to government is largely pragmatic.

Sure, in an ideal world, adults wouldn't have to work a shitty fast food job. But since they do, Democrats understand that they need some sort of assistance, whether that be government aid or minimum wage increases.

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ThyCorndog
11/09/22 7:13:58 AM
#12:


Sounds about right to me TC. They're definitely an idealist party, at least on the ideas they espouse. They're still pretty pragmatic though since they like to cut taxes a lot and that serves their short term goals as well

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MedeaLysistrata
11/09/22 7:14:24 AM
#13:


yeah I wouldn't benefit from the old order, so no on conservatism for me, but the current order also isn't really working and idk what to make of that in terms of voting for people that i CAN vote for, since they seem obsessed with maintaining the status quo of the middle class anyway...

But you guys are not really focused on the economy here and this seems to have more to do with gender and race, so in terms of that I will just point you to that data piece that showed that Americans think 20% of people Americans transgender (I hope that data was false or something...), and, well, I think that says everything you need to know for why idiots are causing these problems for the trans community and then all the other communities that had the same gross miscalculations.

But yeah I guess it boils down to some people thinking conservative means "maintain the power you currently have", which might be the point of that affiliation.


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Vicious_Dios
11/09/22 7:18:58 AM
#14:


That's one hell of a reach.

Great read, though. Please tell me more about what you guys believe conservatives think or do things at a puddle-deep level and from an outside-looking-in perspective.

I could use more laughing material.

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ThyCorndog
11/09/22 7:19:27 AM
#15:


Vicious_Dios posted...
That's one hell of a reach.

Great read, though. Please tell me more about what you guys believe conservatives think or do things at a puddle-deep level and from an outside-looking-in perspective.

I could use more laughing material.
Feel free to explain the conservative perspective

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ThyCorndog
11/09/22 7:21:56 AM
#17:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

"We have sith at home"
>the sith at home

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Antifar
11/09/22 7:26:49 AM
#18:


Actually it's good for a political party to instill a belief that the world is changeable, rather than an immutable status quo.

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Funkydog
11/09/22 7:28:30 AM
#19:


All you need to understand is their mindset is

"Fuck you"

Not "Fuck you, got mine"

Literally

"Fuck you" - as long as they can make others suffer, it is fine if their lives are made worse than the ones they want to suffer.

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 7:28:37 AM
#20:


MedeaLysistrata posted...
But you guys are not really focused on the economy here

Well, what I will say about the economy is that even there, conservatives have this vision of it that they try to preserve.

They really want to believe in the meritocracy of capitalism (likely because admitting otherwise would cause them to question their own position on the economic pyramid), which is why they're unwilling to address the fact that there's some rich folks who got to where they are by illegitimate, unearned means and there's some poor folks who are hard/skilled workers but simply got crushed by the system.

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RchHomieQuanChi
11/09/22 7:30:22 AM
#21:


Antifar posted...
Actually it's good for a political party to instill a belief that the world is changeable, rather than an immutable status quo.

Oh, absolutely. The idealism isn't so much the problem as much as a) what their ideals are, b) what they're doing to achieve them and c) the stubborn refusal to acknowledge material conditions and why they are happening.

I'd even go so far as to argue that Democrats' more pragmatic approach to governance can also be a problem when you aren't doing enough to push the country forward.

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MedeaLysistrata
11/09/22 9:45:55 AM
#22:


a conservative would say liberals have a utopian ideal that trying to correspond to causes issues. i think pragmatism is a kind of non metaphysical doctrine correct?

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DarkBuster22904
11/09/22 10:04:33 AM
#23:


Republicans have no ideology. Their "idiology" comes down to "owning libs."

They aren't the party of fiscal responsibility, because electing business moguls the write policies to bail out their business partner friends and firebombing the budget cutting taxes for the wealthy isn't fiscally responsible.

They aren't the party of traditional family values, because imagine the outcry if Hillary Clinton had five children by three different men, and paid off a porn star.

It's not the party of anti-abortion, as evidenced by people like Herachel Walker and Lauren Boebert.

It's not the party of small government, because they want the government controlling everything from school curriculums to marriage licenses.

It's not the party of a strong foreign policy, because their strategy is to cost us long standing allies and kiss ass to places like Russia who hate us.

It's not the party of law and order, because it's members are free to break the law every time the government mildly annoys them.

It's not the party of anti-socialism, because it stands for dumping obscene amounts of taxpayer money into socialist programs like the military.

It's not the pro-business party, because it's rapidly ensuring regular people no longer have enough money to support most businesses.

It's not the party of the working class, because it almost exclusively funnels more money to executives and shareholders.

There IS no ideology. The closest they have is "everything the libs do is wrong. And we'll come up with progressively more absurd conspiracies as to why they're wrong if it becomes clear they're not."

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Nu_Jersey_Devil
11/09/22 10:10:17 AM
#24:


DarkBuster22904 posted...
Republicans have no ideology. Their "idiology" comes down to "owning libs."

They aren't the party of fiscal responsibility, because electing business moguls the write policies to bail out their business partner friends and firebombing the budget cutting taxes for the wealthy isn't fiscally responsible.

They aren't the party of traditional family values, because imagine the outcry if Hillary Clinton had five children by three different men, and paid off a porn star.

It's not the party of anti-abortion, as evidenced by people like Herachel Walker and Lauren Boebert.

It's not the party of small government, because they want the government controlling everything from school curriculums to marriage licenses.

It's not the party of a strong foreign policy, because their strategy is to cost us long standing allies and kiss ass to places like Russia who hate us.

It's not the party of law and order, because it's members are free to break the law every time the government mildly annoys them.

It's not the party of anti-socialism, because it stands for dumping obscene amounts of taxpayer money into socialist programs like the military.

It's not the pro-business party, because it's rapidly ensuring regular people no longer have enough money to support most businesses.

It's not the party of the working class, because it almost exclusively funnels more money to executives and shareholders.

There IS no ideology. The closest they have is "everything the libs do is wrong. And we'll come up with progressively more absurd conspiracies as to why they're wrong if it becomes clear they're not."

And here I thought Mods had to be unbiased...lol

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bigblu89
11/09/22 10:10:43 AM
#25:


CyricZ posted...
More specifically, they want to "turn back time". They want a simpler time. A time where there weren't the worries we have now.

A time that never actually existed.

A time when the entire neighborhood was middle class white people and the "others" knew this neighborhood was for them.

A time when gay people stayed in the closet, where they belong.

A time when a woman should be ashamed of herself for being single past the age of 27.

A time when the world was run by men, and women "knew their place".

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meestermj
11/09/22 10:13:07 AM
#26:


Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
And here I thought Mods had to be unbiased...lol
The fuck gave you that idea?
What a dumb post.

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Garioshi
11/09/22 10:14:21 AM
#27:


Conservatism is built on a seething hatred of the weak and an eternal victim complex

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Nu_Jersey_Devil
11/09/22 10:33:18 AM
#28:


bigblu89 posted...
A time when the entire neighborhood was middle class white people and the "others" knew this neighborhood was for them.

A time when gay people stayed in the closet, where they belong.

A time when a woman should be ashamed of herself for being single past the age of 27.

A time when the world was run by men, and women "knew their place".

I think that's more fear, most conservatives that I know just want the government to not have as much influence on their daily lives, which I can agree with. However, there does exist the far-right conservatives that are against lgbt rights, and those people can eat a dick..lol
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Nu_Jersey_Devil
11/09/22 10:34:26 AM
#29:


meestermj posted...
The fuck gave you that idea?
What a dumb post.

Is it though? What's to stop a mod from closing posts that don't fit their ideology?
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bigblu89
11/09/22 10:36:26 AM
#30:


Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
I think that's more fear, most conservatives that I know just want the government to not have as much influence on their daily lives, which I can agree with. However, there does exist the far-right conservatives that are against lgbt rights, and those people can eat a dick..lol
Which is an odd take, as it's the conservatives that are looking to pass laws that limit the rights people have on a daily basis.

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TULPAMANCER
11/09/22 10:43:36 AM
#31:


Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
Is it though? What's to stop a mod from closing posts that don't fit their ideology?

If a moderator were to close a post simply because that post did not align with their own personal worldview, and not due to any demonstrable violation of the ToC, that moderator ought to be relieved of their office and be ashamed for being so puerile.
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DarkBuster22904
11/09/22 10:47:27 AM
#32:


Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
I think that's more fear, most conservatives that I know just want the government to not have as much influence on their daily lives, which I can agree with. However, there does exist the far-right conservatives that are against lgbt rights, and those people can eat a dick..lol
And yet they are the ones that want the government to dictate what women do with their bodies, what information is taught in schools, what medicines are/aren't made available, who can/can't get married, what content private social media companies do/don't allow, what religions are/aren't allowed to be publicly represented. what scientific facts are to be considered correct, and on and on.

Rather ironic for a party claiming to be opposed to dictatorial communism.

Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
And here I thought Mods had to be unbiased...lol
Can't speak to the others, but I'll consult with the team or leave a moderation decision to another mod if I feel my personal values are coloring my judgment too strongly. I'm here to uphold the site rules, not enforce my ideology.

That said, it's ridiculous to expect any human being, mod or no, to be "unbiased," or not have strong opinions about anything. We're people, not robots. Beep boop.

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VeggetaX
11/09/22 10:50:39 AM
#33:


Meh. I have a simpler logic on why most people vote the way they vote. Childhood to young adult experiences made them into bitter grownups so they vote based on to screw the type of people who they feel has wronged them.

When you're beyond this only then you're truly enlightened.

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meestermj
11/09/22 12:40:22 PM
#34:


Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...
Is it though? What's to stop a mod from closing posts that don't fit their ideology?
The rules and appeal process?
Nobody is getting modded for simply having different views.
When people say "there are no stupid questions" they just haven't read this one.

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Giant_Aspirin
11/09/22 12:43:58 PM
#35:


the Conservative mindset is based around one thing: selfishness.

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Questionmarktarius
11/09/22 12:48:46 PM
#36:


"We should improve society somewhat"
"Nah, society is fine, fuck off and quit bothering me about it"

Giant_Aspirin posted...
the Conservative mindset is based around one thing: selfishness.
Which wouldn't be much of a problem, if the liberal mindset wasn't altruism-by-proxy
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Antifar
11/09/22 12:53:28 PM
#37:


Corey Robin's "The Reactionary Mind" is a good book to read on conservatism

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Smackems
11/10/22 7:26:55 AM
#39:


Tc is 100% correct

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yemmy
11/10/22 8:28:25 AM
#41:


meestermj posted...
Nobody is getting modded for simply having different views.



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pinky0926
11/10/22 8:33:18 AM
#43:


This actually is a pretty good take.

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Kakapo
11/10/22 8:40:59 AM
#44:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



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yemmy
11/10/22 1:54:39 PM
#45:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Good bot

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