Current Events > It's annoying how many people refuse to concede an argument

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like, disagreeing on things are fine, but sometimes you can give proof, or practically infallible reasoning, but people will stick to their original opinion. It feels like they just don't want to lose. They can't even say 'agree to disagree', because they feel like that's losing.

No it's not, you're WRONG

"I don't care about facts or logic, I trust my gut!"

"Agree to disagree" seems an awful lot like "I don't want to lose even though I'm starting to realize you're right"

Sounds like a prerequisite to post on CE

Why?

It's like you are playing a game where you whooping the shit out of the opposing team, just dunking in their face over and over and over, and it never has to end.

Evening_Dragon posted...

"Agree to disagree" seems an awful lot like "I don't want to lose even though I'm starting to realize you're right"

I feel like there are some instances where it's fine. If you're arguing about a character's motivations, or something ambiguous, I think agree to disagree is fine. I absolutely realize people think it's giving up. I usually tend to give them an out like "I don't fully disagree with X", which is the perfect time for them to call it quits, but they rarely do.

I should make it evident, I'm definitely a stubborn type as well, but I'm usually less motivated by being right, but from the person I'm arguing with not really giving a sound argument or reasoning. I try not to argue too much because I get too into it. Past few days I've been in 3. Gotta relax.

yeah my honey mustard topic (which was suspiciously closed without warning or notification) gave me a refresher on just how bad it can get around here lmao

KhlavicLanguage posted...

yeah my honey mustard topic (which was suspiciously closed without warning or notification) gave me a refresher on just how bad it can get around here lmao

Lmafooooo was it? That's dumb, I don't remember anything getting heated in that one lol

Had this issue in a family WhatsApp last night. Was debating the economy and someone got something wrong after a huge debate. Instead of admitting he was wrong deleted his posts and anything to do with it and pretended the whole conversation never happened. How people can be so insecure that losing an argument would hit their confidence so much I have no idea. Pitty them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

People usually start getting insulting or try to indicate that I'm insulting them. Which gives them reason to stop engaging.

I think I'd rather them do what you said, they can 'save face', and I don't feel compelled to keep it going.

MarcoRubio posted...

Lmafooooo was it? That's dumb, I don't remember anything getting heated in that one lol

def wasnt me who closed it *shrug* maybe someone got embarrassed

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80180072

That's why humility is classically considered a virtue. It takes conscious effort and discipline to suppress one's ego/self-interest and put aside preconceptions in order to consider the situation from other perspectives and be willing to have a change of heart.

I say classically because in modern times, capitalism and its propaganda arms (advertising and mass media) condition people against humility. Admitting to 'being wrong' or making a mistake means accepting liability for any financial consequences of that mistake, and capitalism's end game is to assign a monetary value to anything and everything in the realm of human experience.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



One day

When you least expect it

Every point

Refuted withiut question

You will be speechless and weeping

I can always tell when I've won an argument because the other guy will pull some completely unrelated ad hominem like "oh yeah? You're a stinkyface anyway" and then ragequit.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Or more specifically:
"I refuted your points beautifully and then the page reloaded. Oh well. But just know you lost this one!"

BTH_Phoenix posted...

I can always tell when I've won an argument because the other guy will pull some completely unrelated ad hominem like "oh yeah? You're a stinkyface anyway" and then ragequit.

People who insult me tend to not immediately leave, I guess because they think theyre justified and I dont respond much to their provocation.

Speaking of one of the 3 (now 4 but one was on the same topic) arguments I had recently. One person left the discord server we were both in. While the most recent guy actually conceded that he might not have been as right as he thought, but still wasnt totally on board with my way of thinking. So there are some people that can change their mind, if things are low stakes enough.

I actually had a really painful disagreement with my girlfriend about a month and a half ago: I had asserted that existing in the closet is incredibly painful and traumatic (especially for a trans person) and she got really reactive and negative and minimized that experience. I was so hurt I took some space from the relationship. She apologized the next day, but kind of seemed like she didn't really get it.

I did eventually resolve to forgive her, and we wound up having a long conversation about it in which she walked me through what she had been thinking and she had been coming from while emphasizing that she had been wrong and demonstrating she had educated herself.

And I bring it up not only because I can't help but talk about her constantly, but because I have never received a more thorough and thoughtful apology in my life. She could have easily dug in and further damaged or even killed our relationship, but instead she took responsibility for herself and wound up strengthening our relationship instead.

Okay, enough of that. I really think our reluctance to acknowledge fault - to acknowledge that we were wrong - is very much rooted in selfishness. It's rooted in an unwillingness to acknowledge that another had a better view or understanding of a given situation and/or topic, and it prevents us from learning and growing from our mistakes.

Your post is a good one, I agree with your conclusion pretty much. Selfishness, or ego, if you prefer, dont allow people to back down. It often comes to a point that people are just talking past each other, not really considering what the other is saying. Or rather, even if they are, they refuse to acknowledge it.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

I had asserted that existing in the closet is incredibly painful and traumatic

I'm not in the closet for anything gender/sex related, so it's probably hugely different, but this is just one of those things I can't understand and just assume is true on the basis of so many people sharing that they feel the same way. Suppressing my stuff is just how I gotta live to be in any sort of upstanding society, but it's real different from the usually suppressed stuff. Probably.

Evening_Dragon posted...

"Agree to disagree" seems an awful lot like "I don't want to lose even though I'm starting to realize you're right"

I mainly use it when I can see the other person isn't budging and the argument is draining my energy. Like IRL, not online, extended arguments are unpleasant and awkward

PerseusRad posted...

Like, disagreeing on things are fine, but sometimes you can give proof, or practically infallible reasoning, but people will stick to their original opinion. It feels like they just don't want to lose. They can't even say 'agree to disagree', because they feel like that's losing.

Sounds like MAGA people to me. They seem to have lost critical thinking and self-reflecting completely and are not able to think logically and reasonably anymore, in addition to their lack of understanding and respecting democratic principles. In short, they're just dumb and ignorant.

The need to be right stems from an over inflated ego and a lack of accountability.

Accountability is worth it's weight in gold nowadays.

DuuuDe14 posted...

The need to be right stems from an over inflated ego and a lack of accountability.

Accountability is worth it's weight in gold nowadays.

Agree. Unfortunately a lot of people also see it as a sign of weakness.

In TC's perfect world, everybody would agree with him. Thank god that's not the how it works. lol

tc, do you mean, mostly on this site or irl?

Nikra posted...

In TC's perfect world, everybody would agree with him. Thank god that's not the how it works. lol

Nah, Ive already said Im hardly free from doing this as well. I think most can agree that theres an issue where people will never adjust their position. Again, I do usually try to a little bit, if I dont fully disagree. But other people dont do the same, and are insistent.

Gets even worse when both parties need to get the last word so the arguement just devolves into pointlessness

You're wrong if I can make up shit to villainize you