Current Events > 'Not every job should have a living wage. That's not healthy for society'

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/0/9/AAPw6aAADqAt.jpg

Know what isn't healthy for society? Having a large group of poor, destitute and desperate people resorting to crime to fucking survive

Every person deserves a home to live in, food to eat, and healthcare if they get sick and farty

What a stupid fucking opinion.

How come nobody wants to work these days???

You have to just straight up lack empathy to go around saying shit like that.

Cant imagine being that fucking delusional. Yeesh.

Sounds like these bougie fucks need to be reminded of what happens when the poor people have nothing to lose.
@Kitt It's because they don't think of poor people as people. They are part of the furniture, they exist to serve their social betters and nothing more.

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:
https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/mcdonalds-seiu-minimum-wage-strike

In the 1950s, this dependence on low wages meant hiring teenagers. Why them? As Eric Schlosser, author of Fastfood Nationwrites, they were perfect candidates for fast-food jobs not only because they were less expensive to hire than adults, but also because their youthful inexperience makes them easier to control. Importantly, the families of teenagers could cover the costs of housing, food, medical care, and other expenses. Since most teenagers still lived at home, notes Schlosser, they could afford to work for wages too low to support an adult. With a teenage workforce, McDonalds could pay sub-subsistence wages and rely on their workers families to ensure they still survived.

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob, outside of maybe management positions. They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:
https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/mcdonalds-seiu-minimum-wage-strike

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob, outside of maybe management positions. They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

This is a shit take.

Questionmarktarius posted...

They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

So really Elon Musk should be working at McDonald's

That is depressing... I guess the logic is no one would strive for a high paying job.

Why do poor people support this shit?

I agree with this. If a job isnt worth paying someone enough to live a normal life, then that job should not be done by humans and presumably Universal Basic Income would replace those jobs.

Unfortunately this isnt really possible until all those jobs actually can be replaced by AI

Living wages shouldn't depend on work at all. Honestly, there's just not that many jobs that realistically need to exist. We need to get away from a system which only allows people to live if they "deserve it" (read: put in some appropriate amount of pain).

Questionmarktarius posted...

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:
https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/mcdonalds-seiu-minimum-wage-strike

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob, outside of maybe management positions. They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

They're meant as a stepping platform so you can gain experience and connections. They should be able to provide you with a wage that sustains you, if only with (mild to moderate) help.

I understand they're not meant to provide you with a full economic plate, per se.

But to act like it's unhealthy for every job to pay a living wage, is insane

Questionmarktarius posted...

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob,

But why?

meestermj posted...

This is a shit take.

Back in the 50s, steel foundries still existed. They'd pay great for unskilled labor.
That sort of job hasn't quite disappeared yet: https://careertrend.com/the-highest-paid-unskilled-jobs-13655226.html

wackyteen posted...

But to act like it's unhealthy for every job to pay a living wage, is insane

MedeaLysistrata posted...

But why?

It's, uh, "unhealthy" for the industries that depend on cheap labor to exist, and can't outsource. That Jacobin article explains it very well, while trying to argue the other way.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Back in the 50s, steel foundries still existed. They'd pay great for unskilled labor.
That sort of job hasn't quite disappeared yet: https://careertrend.com/the-highest-paid-unskilled-jobs-13655226.html

And what Era of American history does every fucking Boomer want to go back to?

This is part of the reason I don't go on Twitter. It's just full of these hot takes.

"Today, 42 percent of American workers make less than $15 an hour."

This is fucking insane.

Honestly idk how people delude themselves into thinking this. Everyone who works full time deserves to be able to afford the basic necessities of living, no one should have to struggle to make rent and buy groceries.

Sounds like the spouting of propaganda shes been taught all her life.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:
https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/mcdonalds-seiu-minimum-wage-strike

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob, outside of maybe management positions. They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

The minimum wage was the minimum to able to live. Greedy fucks and brainwashed fools have corrupted you into thinking it's not supposed to be that. Which one are you?

When will people realize that the "Fight for $15" is literally just people asking for wages to rise in proportion with the US Dollar's worth?

$15 today would be equivalent to:

$2.03 in 1970
$4.13 in 1980
$6.78 in 1990
$9.05 in 2000
$11.62 in 2010
$13.83 in 2020

dave_is_slick posted...

The minimum wage was the minimum to able to live.

The minimum wage was created to price minorities out of jobs. It only briefly had subsistence levels in the 1960s.

$15 an hour is about 10 years behind.

I live in a relatively cheap cost of living area and for my situation, being sole source of income for two people but no kids, my $15 is not a living wage

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/2/7/AAYVThAADqA_.jpg

It's even worse if you consider that for a dual income system with just one kid, $15 from both parents is not enough to have a living wage

Questionmarktarius posted...

The minimum wage was created to price minorities out of jobs. It only briefly had subsistence levels in the 1960s.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage

"The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees"

That has to be sarcasm, right?

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's, uh, "unhealthy" for the industries that depend on cheap labor to exist, and can't outsource. That Jacobin article explains it very well, while trying to argue the other way.

When you say depend on cheap labour, do you mean to turn record profits or to continue operations at all?

If an industry requires cheap, underpaid labor to exist that industry needs to be completely overhauled.

They don't depend on cheap labor to exist, they depend on cheap labor to bring in year over year record profits.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

When you say depend on cheap labour, do you mean to turn record profits or to continue operations at all?

Regardless.
If a business can't exists without paying its workers a proper wage, it doesn't deserve to stay in business.

meestermj posted...

If a business can't exists without paying its workers a proper wage, it doesn't deserve to stay in business.

Are you sure you're not secretly a libertarian?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's, uh, "unhealthy" for the industries that depend on cheap labor to exist, and can't outsource. That Jacobin article explains it very well, while trying to argue the other way.

I think you'd have to be an unempathetic psycho to read that and thing it's a good thing.

... I think I can fix her.

*Gets verbally abused by her for 3 years and ends up spiraling and ruining all my personal relationships*

meestermj posted...

Regardless.
If a business can't exists without paying its workers a proper wage, it doesn't deserve to stay in business.

A lot of businesses rely on cheap labour for one element of the value chain and then have more technical expensive labour in other parts.

It's entirely about people deciding what is valuable, which is often steeped in elitism.

https://twitter.com/ColoradoOhio/status/1336383600959365127

Kitt posted...

You have to just straight up lack empathy to go around saying shit like that.

There are a lot of people who dont feel happy unless they see others doing significantly worse than them

We'd probably be better off if fast food didn't exist anyway, which is the inevitable result of mcjobs paying "living" wages.

Or, the market settles into something like Denmark, where McDonalds is unionized, and there's not another mcdonalds in sight of the one you're at now.

VigorouslySwish posted...

There are a lot of people who dont feel happy unless they see others doing significantly worse than them

"why it's how it is, and what's likely to happen otherwise" is a vastly more cynical outlook than "how this ought to be", yes.

This says a lot about society.

Maybe in the before times, but these kinds of service jobs are like....the only thing that's left.

Hornswoggled posted...

but these kinds of service jobs are like....the only thing that's left.

https://careertrend.com/the-highest-paid-unskilled-jobs-13655226.html

Here the sovereign responsibility of the people as a whole should be placed beyond all quibble and dispute.

The public needs have been well summarized as follows:

1. We hold that the public has a right to complete knowledge of the facts of work.
2. On the basis of these facts and with the recent discoveries of physicians and neurologists, engineers and economists, the public call formulate minimum occupational standards below which, demonstrably, work can be prosecuted only at a human deficit.
3. In the third place, we hold that all industrial conditions which fall below such standards should come within the scope of governmental action and control in the same way that subnormal sanitary conditions are subject to public regulation and for the same reason--because they threaten the general welfare.

To the first end, we hold that the constituted authorities should be empowered to require all employers to file with them for public purposes such wage scales and other data as the public element in industry demands. The movement for honest weights and measures has its counterpart in industry. All tallies, scales and check systems should be open to public inspection and inspection of committees of the workers concerned. All deaths, injuries, and diseases due to industrial operation should be reported to public authorities.

To the second end, we hold that minimum wage commissions should be established in the Nation and in each State to inquire into wages paid in various industries and to determine the standard which the public ought to sanction as a minimum; and we believe that, as a present installment of what we hope for in the future, there should be at once established in the Nation and its several States minimum standards for the wages of women, taking the present Massachusetts law as a basis from which to start and on which to improve. We pledge the Federal Government to an investigation of industries along the lines pursued by the Bureau of Alines with the view to establishing standards of sanitation and safety; we call for the standardization of mine and factory inspection by interstate agreement or the establishment of a Federal standard. We stand for the passage of legislation in the Nation and in all States providing standards of compensation for industrial accidents and death, and for diseases clearly due to the nature of conditions of industry, and we stand for the adoption by law of a fair standard of compensation for casualties resulting fatally which shall clearly fix the minimum compensation in all cases.

In the third place, certain industrial conditions fall clearly below the levels which the public today sanction.

We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age.

Theodore Roosevelt

https://www.ssa.gov/history/trspeech.html

FaultyCircuitry posted...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage

"The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-the-historically-racist-motivations-behind-minimum-wage/

Questionmarktarius posted...

Here's a very-leftist website inadvertently explaining why these jobs are actually a good thing:
https://auth.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/mcdonalds-seiu-minimum-wage-strike

You really aren't supposed to live on a McJob, outside of maybe management positions. They're meant for "pocket money" for someone who already has a support system.

All this is telling me is that companies are looking closer and closer to lowering worker age to find people more easy to exploit because they want higher profit margins.

And you think this is a good thing. That's fucking hilarious and pathetic.

These jobs are necessary for our economy.
They're necessary for Americans to maintain their current lifestyles.
They're necessary to keep those businesses running.

But oh, the people actually doing those jobs? Fuck them, why should they be able to afford rent and groceries?

Hornswoggled posted...

And upward mobility is in the fucking toilet.

Upward mobility seems non existent for me unless I apply said mobility to a restaurant or janitorial career. It seems like any job I want to do is convieniently out of reach. In fact calling it upward mobility makes sense because it implies you are already on the ladder.

So I'm obviously slighted and have a bone to pick with the way things are.

Questionmarktarius posted...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-the-historically-racist-motivations-behind-minimum-wage/

This article is fucking garbage. It's like you searched specifically for something to support the conclusion you were told to have instead of making your own conclusion from the available facts.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This article is fucking garbage. It's like you searched specifically for something to support the conclusion you were told to have instead of making your own conclusion from the available facts.

Look at who posted it. No surprise there.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Upward mobility seems non existent for me unless I apply said mobility to a restaurant or janitorial career. It seems like any job I want to do is convieniently out of reach. In fact calling it upward mobility makes sense because it implies you are already on the ladder.

So I'm obviously slighted and have a bone to pick with the way things are.

It's been made painfully clear that the vast majority of people who have really good jobs got them because they know people and have connections.

Hard work amounts to almost nothing when compared to being a friend of the bosses son.