Current Events > Do you agree with this meme pic

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/4/5/AAEv3mAADkph.jpg

I always wondered "how tf do English teachers know this stuff." Like imagine if a CEman tried telling you the real meaning of MGS2

Checkov's gun, basically. If you mention something that has no meaning you're just wasting space.

They do that so you can write a "persuasive" essay later.

Yes and no. Metaphors are in fact used in literature. But not every detail is a metaphor

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Checkov's gun, basically. If you mention something that has no meaning you're just wasting space.

You have to do this to a certain degree when writing a novel. Not turn a short story into War and Peace but you have to create and describe a world using only words.

I think the overlap is much higher.

Which part? The original meme where they act like authors have nothing to say but what is directly being read, or the person who added the Ron Swanson quote to show that the first guy was utterly full of it?

ThyCorndog posted...

Yes and no. Metaphors are in fact used in literature. But not every detail is a metaphor

if the colour of the curtains was unimportant, it wouldn't have been mentioned. colours have a lot of different associations, and there are many possible interpretations of what those colours can represent

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Checkov's gun, basically. If you mention something that has no meaning you're just wasting space.

the issue with Chekhov's Gun is that it's plot-centric. a detail can add something to the work that is unrelated to the plot

Based on my experience at writing essays, I agree with that meme.

i feel like this meme is by people who have no idea how to analyze literature, or who are reading bad authors

of course there are times where physical descriptions are just that, but authors - especially those studied in english classes - use imagery as metaphor all the time. this has big why dont they teach taxes in high school energy. if you have a setting with a depressed person, i highly doubt the author would note that the curtains are blue without intending to add to an image that supports that underlying message.

moreover, the authors intent has very little to do with it. thats the problem, is that so many english classes are taught/graded the same way as math or chemistry or any other subject with a clear right and wrong answer. seeking additional meaning, those little details that could tie in somewhere, is the most interesting part of analyzing art, but if people dont get it themselves they assume the person saying so is just a blowhard

This seems like a stupid person meme?

Bananana posted...

i feel like this meme is by people who have no idea how to analyze literature, or who are reading bad authors

of course there are times where physical descriptions are just that, but authors - especially those studied in english classes - use imagery as metaphor all the time. this has big why dont they teach taxes in high school energy. if you have a setting with a depressed person, i highly doubt the author would note that the curtains are blue without intending to add to an image that supports that underlying message.

moreover, the authors intent has very little to do with it. thats the problem, is that so many english classes are taught/graded the same way as math or chemistry or any other subject with a clear right and wrong answer. seeking additional meaning, those little details that could tie in somewhere, is the most interesting part of analyzing art, but if people dont get it themselves they assume the person saying so is just a blowhard

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/9/2/AAUjppAADc30.jpg

of course it's a pipe. what else would it be? you're just over-analyzing it. it's not that deep

Sometimes you need a lot of filler to pad the book out. When you add in a bunch of fluff like this, it adds up.

Damn_Underscore posted...

You have to do this to a certain degree when writing a novel. Not turn a short story into War and Peace but you have to create and describe a world using only words.

Yes, and a good novel has more meaning and coherence in it than a bad novel

averagejoel posted...

if the colour of the curtains was unimportant, it wouldn't have been mentioned. colours have a lot of different associations, and there are many possible interpretations of what those colours can represent

Sometimes things are described to paint a picture. If an author describes a dog breed it doesn't mean that it is strictly important to the plot. It can just help the reader picture what was envisioned by the writer.

Relient_K posted...

Sometimes things are described to paint a picture. If an author describes a dog breed it doesn't mean that it is strictly important to the plot. It can just help the reader picture what was envisioned by the writer.

But then why mention it at all? Minimalism wouldn't be a paradigm in writing if everyone agreed that novels should be a descriptive as possible just to add more details

Personally I don't see why it matters what breed a dog is unless it's going to be relevant somehow

MedeaLysistrata posted...

But then why mention it at all? Minimalism wouldn't be a paradigm in writing if everyone agreed that novels should be a descriptive as possible just to add more details

Personally I don't see why it matters what breed a dog is unless it's going to be relevant somehow

Because different writing styles are fine? Because the objective of the writer could be more than symbolism? Maybe there's a field of daisies because the author likes daisies.

Look at it this way.

If the book says someone has a beagle, you know what kind of dog they like.

Relient_K posted...

Because different writing styles are fine? Because the objective of the writer could be more than symbolism? Maybe there's a field of daisies because the author likes daisies.

I think I'm coming around to what you are saying. But you're gonna have to elaborate.

"There is a field of daisies" in a vacuum wouldn't make sense relative to anything else. "There is a field of daisies that an idiot is running through" says something about the idiot.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Look at it this way.

If the book says someone has a beagle, you know what kind of dog they like.

What if it says someone has a pitbull?

Relient_K posted...

Sometimes things are described to paint a picture. If an author describes a dog breed it doesn't mean that it is strictly important to the plot. It can just help the reader picture what was envisioned by the writer.

I'm aware that it isn't necessarily important to the plot. but the symbolism might not actually have any bearing on the plot

Relient_K posted...

Because different writing styles are fine? Because the objective of the writer could be more than symbolism? Maybe there's a field of daisies because the author likes daisies.

symbolism can be interpreted regardless of the author's objective though

Damn_Underscore posted...

What if it says someone has a pitbull?

then you read on to see if they lift these ridiculous bans at any point

averagejoel posted...

symbolism can be interpreted regardless of the author's objective though

I agree with this. We can look for deeper meanings in something even if it wasn't intended.

Even if the author didn't intend to convey a message or feeling with a description, it could mean that the author themselves was feeling that way about it as they created it in their mind.

Drawing parallels between stories that weren't intended are also vid. There's a lot of overlap in story telling and what we read or soak up from our culture can influence the stories that are told.

I'm also not a writer so what do I know. I just like descriptions that help me picture a scene.

Bananana posted...

if you have a setting with a depressed person, i highly doubt the author would note that the curtains are blue without intending to add to an image that supports that underlying message.

If you have a depressed person and want the curtains to convey that, they would be black, not blue. Blue might be an idiom, but black clearly drives the point home.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

If you have a depressed person and want the curtains to convey that, they would be black, not blue. Blue might be an idiom, but black clearly drives the point home.

blue can convey it too. this isn't a clear yes/no issue. every colour has many different connotations that can assist in interpreting visual imagery

can u do this with music as well?

MedeaLysistrata posted...

can u do this with music as well?

as I see it, there are several ways of interpreting this question:

1. could you analyze the lyrics to a particular song in the same way that you analyze any other text?
2. could you find some sort of symbolism in a fictional character listening to a particular piece of music?
3. can you interpret ideas and symbolism in melodies and chords (without lyrics) the same way that you would interpret ideas in words?

maybe others too; those three are just the first ones that came to mind

the answer to the first two questions is Yes.

as for the third... it's sort of a soft "no" with a lot of asterisks. that is; it's much more subjective, and at a certain point it becomes much less grounded in the music itself.

music can't convey semantic meaning on its own, but in some circumstances people learn about the context of a piece of music before hearing it and, knowing this, they might be able to hear some of what the creator was going for

Hm, I was expecting a yes but maybe because of stuff like leitmotifs and etc

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yeah I'm fully aware that your wife is an English teacher I wonder what she has to say about this

Sometimes imagery is just to help "paint a picture" of what's going on in your head

Generally no. But it is not a surprising meme based on the way people discuss fiction online.

averagejoel posted...

if the colour of the curtains was unimportant, it wouldn't have been mentioned. colours have a lot of different associations, and there are many possible interpretations of what those colours can represent

I mean you can paint a picture using words to set a scene. Every little detail doesn't have to have some underlying meaning.

The advice I always hear is to parse shit down and get rid of anything that is unnecessary

Not to mention the appeal of novels is using imagination to fill in details, but I guess different strokes or whatever

I think part of the point of art is to project on it. There's nothing wrong with that. Artists themselves can't control what they do subconsciously. So, you could even pick up on something they didn't even know they were doing

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I mean you can paint a picture using words to set a scene. Every little detail doesn't have to have some underlying meaning.

it doesn't have to, but it can

averagejoel posted...

it doesn't have to, but it can

Yes?

no that meme is dumb.

people present evidence and make arguments about books, just because ppl are too lazy to read or think about stuff doesn't mean it's not true.

also, Ron is being cheeky in that quote, Moby Dick is notoriously heavy on symbolism and frou-frou stuff.

also it's not a pipe its a goddamn image of pipe

also that painting is almost 100 years old and ppl act like omfg wtf is this

go to a goddamn museum or something im exhausted

Robot2600 posted...

also it's not a pipe its a goddamn image of pipe

also that painting is almost 100 years old and ppl act like omfg wtf is this

go to a goddamn museum or something im exhausted

But the words are in the universe of the painting

Robot2600 posted...

also it's not a pipe its a goddamn image of pipe

also that painting is almost 100 years old and ppl act like omfg wtf is this

go to a goddamn museum or something im exhausted

do you know what sarcasm is

idk, do i?

Looks like a pipe to me

Lit professors have to justify their existence slightly more than just "read a book".
All they ever got out of it was students who would rather read Douglas Adams than Chaucer.

it's funny that u think ppl read
im sorry ur english teacher was mean 2 u

Dragon239 posted...

Looks like a pipe to me

It's not a pipe, in it's current form I find it nearly impossible to smoke from, needs at least one more dimension