Current Events > College should be free as a matter of National Security

(+) Yeah! (+)

When you have an uneducated population, sure you have a workforce ripe for exploitation.
But you also have a population ripe for foreign influence even to invasion.

Boomers were extremely susceptible to this and continue to be.

Nearly a third of Baby Boomers have graduated college. Census data estimates that 28.8 percent of Baby Boomers have earned a Bachelor's degree or higher, while another 28.9 percent have attended some college classes.

More Millennials have a college degree than any other generation of young adults. In 2013, 47 percent of 25 to 34 year-olds received a postsecondary degree (associates, bachelor's, or graduate degree) and an additional 18 percent had completed some postsecondary education, as Figure 6 shows.

These numbers should be pumped unless you are not a patriot and have allegiences elsewhere. Free college should be rebranded from "guhuhuhu communism!" to "you must hate American if you don't want free college".

If we haven't been invaded with a 28.8% college rate then why would they eliminate a massive profit machine when we're at a 47.7% rate?

TaylorHeinicke posted...

If we haven't been invaded with a 28.8% college rate then why would they eliminate a massive profit machine when we're at a 47.7% rate?

what a sussy post

do you pledge allegience to the flag?

Biden said he'd get right on that free college thing after he gets on the student loan forgiveness thing >_________>

WingsOfGood posted...

what a sussy post

do you pledge allegience to the flag?

You know I'm right,

TaylorHeinicke posted...

You know I'm right,

You didn't answer the question....
Not sure why anyone would avoid this question. Surely you are not a spy for a foreign power :O
Please respect the flag

:O

Fuck America. Wish I could leave and live in an actual First-World country. My absolute dream is that the fascist religious zealots take over and the rest of the world gives us emergency refugee status. Only then will I actually be able to afford to leave this hell-hole.

WingsOfGood posted...

When you have an uneducated population, sure you have a workforce ripe for exploitation.
But you also have a population ripe for foreign influence even to invasion.

Boomers were extremely susceptible to this and continue to be.

These numbers should be pumped unless you are not a patriot and have allegiences elsewhere. Free college should be rebranded from "guhuhuhu communism!" to "you must hate American if you don't want free college".

everyone having a college degree would make it the new GED. Do you really want to get into 4 years of debt to fight for a retail job?

if anything, we should stop employers from asking for a college degree for jobs that dont need one, encourage and foster trade schools, and leave college for the people who actually want to go to college.

Calamity_Kaiju posted...

Fuck America. Wish I could leave and live in an actual First-World country. My absolute dream is that the fascist religious zealots take over and the rest of the world gives us emergency refugee status. Only then will I actually be able to afford to leave this hell-hole.

My friend went back to Mexico when Trump was in office and he got basically free tuition to get his masters.

USA truly wants to be a 3rd world country

MrAndersonWb posted...

everyone having a college degree would make it the new GED. Do you really want to get into 4 years of debt to fight for a retail job?

if anything, we should stop employers from asking for a college degree for jobs that dont need one, encourage and foster trade schools, and leave college for the people who actually want to go to college.

Do you...

Not realize this is already the way it is?

And it is not because everyone has a degree.

Fyi, people getting degrees don't make people say they need 10 years experience for entry level.
Nor does it make them require 4 years of a technology that only existed for a year.

Stupid people in hiring is what does that.

Also. free college doesn't give everyone a degree. That is what tests are for. Not everyone passes.

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you...

Not realize this is already the way it is?

And it is not because everyone has a degree.

Fyi, people getting degrees don't make people say they need 10 years experience for entry level.
Nor does it make them require 4 years of a technology that only existed for a year.

Stupid people in hiring is what does that.

Also. free college doesn't give everyone a degree. That is what tests are for. Not everyone passes.

it is a bit of both. When everyone has a degree the value of your own degree is lowered. That means employers can raise hiring standards.

you are right about the stupid people in hiring too.

MrAndersonWb posted...

it is a bit of both. When everyone has a degree the value of your own degree is lowered.

incorrect

someone with an english degree doesn't devalue someone with an engineering degree

Worker exploitation would still occur at the same rate.

A lot of people don't go to a university to learn for starters and that's been a constant thing for as long as I can think of.

WingsOfGood posted...

incorrect

someone with an english degree doesn't devalue someone with an engineering degree

correct.

937392749374939474739474 people with an engineering degree devalue someone with an engineering degree

Keeping people uneducated is a means of control.

MrAndersonWb posted...

correct.

937392749374939474739474 people with an engineering degree devalue someone with an engineering degree

that many people means humanity has colonized other planets which those planets will need engineers

so you are still wrong

Hop103 posted...

Worker exploitation would still occur at the same rate.

A lot of people don't go to a university to learn for starters and that's been a constant thing for as long as I can think of.

more educated realize their own power like how to spot propaganda and read laws to know:

unions are good
telling you that you are fired for discussing salary is illegal

less educated generally know less about things like this

WingsOfGood posted...

more educated realize their own power like how to spot propaganda and read laws to know:

unions are good
telling you that you are fired for discussing salary is illegal

less educated generally know less about things like this

Unions are good for jobs with lots of occupational hazards that can maim or kill (shipbuilders, warehouse workers, and electricians for example), however jobs without those hazards, such as office work and most journalism jobs don't need unions.

Hop103 posted...

Unions are good for jobs with lots of occupational hazards that can maim or kill (shipbuilders, warehouse workers, and electricians for example), however jobs without those hazards, such as office work and most journalism jobs don't need unions.

You bought into the propaganda

WingsOfGood posted...

that many people means humanity has colonized other planets which those planets will need engineers

so you are still wrong

if you take hypotheticals and informal talk this literally you have bigger problems dude

MrAndersonWb posted...

if you take hypotheticals and informal talk this literally you have bigger problems dude

If I hold you to your bullshit I have problems?

Cop out

WingsOfGood posted...

If I hold you to your bullshit I have problems?

Cop out

what bullshit?

MrAndersonWb posted...

937392749374939474739474 people with an engineering

Do you not realize how profoundly ignorant this number is?

Why not... free vocational training?
Leave the universities for rich kids who can get by in dad's company on a Humanities degree.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Why not... free vocational training?
Leave the universities for rich kids who can get by in dad's company on a Humanities degree.

Vocational training doesn't educate you.
It just teaches you to do a job.

And then you have a generation like the boomers easily brainwashed.

WingsOfGood posted...

Vocational training doesn't educate you.

implying electricians are dumb

Questionmarktarius posted...

implying electricians are dumb

If all they know is how to be an electrician then yes, yes they are.

College teaches you for instance how the government actually works and what a president actually does.

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you not realize how profoundly ignorant this number is?

i banged the keyboard. Its called hyperbole. Doesnt the US have 300 million people? The number I put there is impossible.

MrAndersonWb posted...

i banged the keyboard. Its called hyperbole. Doesnt the US have 300 million people? The number I put there is impossible.

so you admit it was bullshit

and you had the nerve to ask

MrAndersonWb posted...

what bullshit?

TC it was an exaggeration.

WingsOfGood posted...

so you admit it was bullshit

and you had the nerve to ask

ok, I guess you did not go to college.

let me make this fool proof for you:

Having a very large number of college graduates with the same degree as you, for example, if you have a degree on electric engineering, having a vast number of electric engineering graduates out there, to the point that there is more supply than demand, will reduce your prospects for gainful employee ent and decent pay

There, now call that bullshit

Yes, but only for a very limited number of fields outside of STEM. Otherwise you're just learning a personal passion you should pay for yourself.

Prismsblade posted...

Yes, but only for a very limited number of fields outside of STEM.

STEM fields are barely more than vocational training anyway.

MrAndersonWb posted...

Having a very large number of college graduates with the same degree as you, for example, if you have a degree on electric engineering, having a vast number of electric engineering graduates out there, to the point that there is more supply than demand, will reduce your prospects for gainful employee ent and decent pay

There, now call that bulls***

Do you believe college only teaches electric engineering?

You are saying college should not be free because if everyone has this exact same specific degree than no one's degree matters.

You are not negating why college should be free. You are strawmanning.

and that my friend is indeed

bullshit

TaylorHeinicke posted...

If we haven't been invaded with a 28.8% college rate then why would they eliminate a massive profit machine when we're at a 47.7% rate?

I don't know about you, but I definitely wasn't old enough to vote for most of, if not all of the bad things that happened between America and the Middle East. Or for the cold war, or any of that.

So I'm definitely with TC here.

And yes that first bit was sarcastic, but still I do agree with TC.

WingsOfGood posted...

If all they know is how to be an electrician then yes, yes they are.

College teaches you for instance how the government actually works and what a president actually does.

This is starting to get into weird territory.

And for that reason... I'm out.

Slaya4 posted...

This is starting to get into weird territory.

And for that reason... I'm out.

College requires learning diversity as that is part of what is called education. This is also why the far right hates colleges and tries to label them as making leftists. STEM majors still gotta read literature, etc.

Saying people should go into trades in a thread discussion educating the population so they can smell foreign interference is a pretty dumb take that user weirdly made.
But he does what he does because he is all about status quo and supply value to a few rich elites and of course fears a further educated population. Like, this thread isn't about someone having a good job, but he literally used to go into trades to get a good job argument itt.

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you believe college only teaches electric engineering?

You are saying college should not be free because if everyone has this exact same specific degree than no one's degree matters.

You are not negating why college should be free. You are strawmanning.

and that my friend is indeed

bullshit

Now you are playing dumb. What part of for example dont you get?

The point is, when the supply of college grads exceeds demand their bargaining power dramatically decreases. It is called common sense.

I am done with you.

MrAndersonWb posted...

The point is, when the supply of college grads exceeds demand their bargaining power dramatically decreases. I

That was not the point you proposed. You proposed that everyone (as you pulled out a fake hyperbolic number) would get an electrical engineering degree.

You did NOT say everyone would go to free college and get DIFFERENT degrees which....

somehow literature devalued that guys math degree

you didn't say that because it would have been even more obvious bullshit

@MrAndersonWb

WingsOfGood posted...

STEM majors still gotta read literature, etc.

...and that's really the only difference.

Why the hell I gotta read Chaucer to go program a computer is anyone's guess.

Questionmarktarius posted...

...and that's really the only difference.

Why the hell I gotta read Chaucer to go program a computer is anyone's guess.

because it is getting an education not apprenticeship for a job

that was my point

edit: an this makes the FREE college argument stronger

want to go into trades? Fine. Now you can get educated for free too.

WingsOfGood posted...

That was not the point you proposed. You proposed that everyone (as you pulled out a fake hyperbolic number) would get an electrical engineering degree.

You did NOT say everyone would go to free college and get DIFFERENT degrees which....

somehow literature devalued that guys math degree

you didn't say that because it would have been even more obvious bullshit

@MrAndersonWb

it was an example, as evidenced by the words for example right before it.

Stop playing dumb @WingsOfGood , and do not @ me again unless youre going to reply in good faith

MrAndersonWb posted...

it was an example, as evidenced by the words for example right before it.

you are not arguing in good faith

do you believe if everyone has diversified degrees, each of their different degrees devalue the others?

WingsOfGood posted...

want to go into trades? Fine. Now you can get educated for free too.

Are you suggesting that votech doesn't also have bullshit gen-ed classes?\
There's just quite a few less of them.

I'm confused why this is even an argument.

Even if certain fields got over saturated for a while, eventually the return should eventually be a more diverse work force with more people being able to express their interests in more diverse fields

Things like art, literature and music for instance could make a huge comeback

WingsOfGood posted...

you are not arguing in good faith

do you believe if everyone has diversified degrees, each of their different degrees devalue the others?

No.

Certain degrees do have an overlap, meaning that some positions require a specific type of degrees, so in frequent instances more than one kind of degree will compete for a specific job.

But that is not my point. If all of a sudden everybody went to college you would have a huge influx of college graduates in many, many degrees, not just one degree. Each of those degrees would be affected, yes.

Adding to this, some jobs require a college degree, no matter what degree, that would be a factor too.

MrAndersonWb posted...

Adding to this, some jobs require a college degree, no matter what degree, that would be a factor too.

Soon:
jobs require a not-free postgrad degree.

Slightly later:
"Free postgrad too, dammit!"

itachi15243 posted...

I'm confused why this is even an argument.

Even if certain fields got over saturated for a while, eventually the return should eventually be a more diverse work force with more people being able to express their interests in more diverse fields

Things like art, literature and music for instance could make a huge comeback

because they are not saying it is in good faith