Current Events > How is the US military able to brainwash civilized kids into killers?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I can understand being able to mold a child into a killer, but I can't really understand how they can turn an 18 year old into a killer. Like I'm just thinking about myself, and while I was still very much nave, at that age I understood that I could never consciously commit such an act and leave unscarred. There might be some self-selection bias where those who choose to enlist can still consciously do it, but what about for draftees? They kidnap frightened literal children, transport them from civilization to a prison like encampment, force them to train to kill, and send them to go kill or be killed. I just can't see it being successful.

Which leads to my 2nd question. How effective were draftees? Did they serve as body bags?

Definitely NOT a topic looking to bait people into saying that anyone who joins the military is a maladjusted person who just wants to kill.

TheAttackTitan posted...

Definitely NOT a topic looking to bait people into saying that anyone who joins the military is a maladjusted person who just wants to kill.

Whosalt

TheAttackTitan posted...

Definitely NOT a topic looking to bait people into saying that anyone who joins the military is a maladjusted person who just wants to kill.

I was going to say that the American military is very good at the sort of psychological manipulation necessary to pull that off.

They have training specifically for that

Tc never watched full metal jacket

Funding Activision?

Smackems posted...

They have training specifically for that

Right, that's what I want to know more about. What does that entail? I can't imagine how one can go from civilized to killer.

Cuz us military folks are crazy

This is the entire point of the military. All of them.

WalkingLobsters posted...

Right, that's what I want to know more about. What does that entail? I can't imagine how one can go from civilized to killer.

I knew at one time but I forgot a lot of it. Propaganda is rife as well. I think they do things like make training dummies to look like real people and really drill the "kill or be killed" thing into them hard

I just fixed airplanes that are used to bomb people .

My dad was drafted when he was 18, spent 2 years in Vietnam as an infantry. It fucked him up bad, I know he killed, don't know how many. He was never built for the military, and the long term effects on his mental health were devastating.

I joined the PA national guard, they dangle sign on bonus money, college, and insist that you basically do a weekend a month and 2 weeks of the year. I joined as a truck driver in a logistics company.

I got activated and spent 3.5 years in active Army, worked on about 5 different posts. I was sent overseas near the Pakistan Afghanistan border, again, bunch of guys who signed up to drive trucks were now in a potential combat situation.

There was a lot of devastation, especially from the younger recruits, and it broke a lot of people. We lost a few guys, and it's tough to sit here and say you can mentally prepare yourself for that kind of thing, but you dont. Even the toughest, biggest guys were breaking down toward the end. You can't quit, or just go home, which is another feeling all in itself.

I guess it's similar, teenagers sign up with that full on mentality of "it won't happen to me" and then they get molded in training.

Mabus hit the nail on the head, at least what ive experienced losing friends that fought over seas and being close to a lot of people that it had serious effects on

I wasn't military tho, I was just raised with and really close to a lot that were

Let's be honest though.
War is kill or be killed.
The last thing I'd want is to be in a battle and be platooned with someone who's going to second guess themself in a gunfight.

In both groups most soldiers still fire over the enemies heads, at least until they see a couple buddies get popped.

The actual studies were on fresh troops new to the battlefield, so what exactly changes with experienced soldiers is a surmise, but the horrors of war are a pretty safe bet.

MabusIncarnate posted...

My dad was drafted when he was 18, spent 2 years in Vietnam as an infantry. It fucked him up bad, I know he killed, don't know how many. He was never built for the military, and the long term effects on his mental health were devastating.

I joined the PA national guard, they dangle sign on bonus money, college, and insist that you basically do a weekend a month and 2 weeks of the year. I joined as a truck driver in a logistics company.

I got activated and spent 3.5 years in active Army, worked on about 5 different posts. I was sent overseas near the Pakistan Afghanistan border, again, bunch of guys who signed up to drive trucks were now in a potential combat situation.

There was a lot of devastation, especially from the younger recruits, and it broke a lot of people. We lost a few guys, and it's tough to sit here and say you can mentally prepare yourself for that kind of thing, but you dont. Even the toughest, biggest guys were breaking down toward the end. You can't quit, or just go home, which is another feeling all in itself.

I guess it's similar, teenagers sign up with that full on mentality of "it won't happen to me" and then they get molded in training.

Thanks for sharing this. I apologize if my wording or assumptions offended you. I understand now.

Not even 376 cops could stop a kid with no military training, are you sure it is the military that brainwash them?

The military makes it clear that in war, the enemy wants to kill you. And if you want to make it home, you have to win. There are also rules of engagement, and an escalation of force that's supposed to be used.

WalkingLobsters posted...

Thanks for sharing this. I apologize if my wording or assumptions offended you. I understand now.

No not at all, I was just contributing from my own experience, I didnt take this as a negative.

Alteres posted...

In both groups most soldiers still fire over the enemies heads, at least until they see a couple buddies get popped.

The actual studies were on fresh troops new to the battlefield, so what exactly changes with experienced soldiers is a surmise, but the horrors of war are a pretty safe bet.

Is that the study that was done in Vietnam? I think that was part of the reason the military introduced more training for killing, but I may be wrong

Pepys_Monster posted...

The military makes it clear that in war, the enemy wants to kill you.

In war, everyone but the brass just wants to go home.

Correct to both of the above, what I saw was a number of studies, some performed by the U.S. and some by England starting from WWII forward over a number of conflicts.

General consensus seemed to be that time period and training had a real hard time getting rid of it.

The process starts well before someone turns 18 and enlists.

On a side note, does anyone else notice that war movies made in the past 25 years sort of glorify war? I know stuff like Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down, Hurt Locker have a significant amount of tragedy and the stress and consequential PTSD of combat, but the often movies have prevailing themes of camaraderie and brotherhood. In addition, they depict allied soldiers as courageous and noble fighters in a battle of good vs evil. At these films' conclusions, I feel a bit amped as I watch these valiant heroes make their triumphant last stand.

Compare that with stuff like Fullmetal Jacket or Platoon. I just feel like absolute crap after watching these movies. They're the type of movies with scenes that just linger in your head for a week. You'll just think back in class randomly, "that was fucked".

What do you guys think?

Smashingpmkns posted...

The process starts well before someone turns 18 and enlists.

Do you think Call of Duty and other war "games" are sponsored by the military?

WalkingLobsters posted...

Do you think Call of Duty and other war "games" are sponsored by the military?

The US army had it's own damn game series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army

Bruh, like 99 percent of the military doesnt do anything but kill monster energy drinks in a base bored in a motor pool.

that being said, youre just looking at it from a Reddit perspective. I did my 8 years, one deployment, didnt kill anyone. Didnt feel the need or want to kill anyone.

Now I reap all benefits for the rest of my life. Free schooling, VA home loan, job preferences, VA disability for life, etc..

Darkprince21 posted...

I did my 8 years, one deployment, didnt kill anyone. Didnt feel the need or want to kill anyone.

My granddads (army, navy) told me shit about Korea. I didn't want any part of that.
I think my dad missed the Vietnam draft by three months.

Questionmarktarius posted...

My granddads told me shit about Korea. I didn't want any part of that.
I think my dad missed the Vietnam draft by three months.

Yeah I get that. I like to think theres a huge difference between the military of back of then and the modern day military. Peace time, war time, etc.. back then it was sign up or get drafted to fight for your country. Now, its basically a career path for a lot of younger people with no direction imo

Questionmarktarius posted...

The US army had it's own damn game series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army

I remember reading that one of their games has a mission excluded from the commercial release.

It's a Kobayashi Maru sort of thing for the officers where everyone dies no matter what (or something like that) to drive home that people will die no matter what they do.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The main post there doesnt delve into the ratios from the better covered studies even though he says the WWII ones supposed findings probably werent incorrect.

Which would lead one to believe... bleh

Darkprince21 posted...

back then it was sign up or get drafted to fight for your country.

My paternal granddad (army) was buried with full WW2 honors, and he never told anyone about that. He only started telling Korea stories when he was dying of three cancers at once, at the age of 82.

I did a perfect score on the ASVAB, and had recruiters up my ass for years. My maternal granddad (navy) telling me shit was enough to never want any of that. He died of cancer about twenty years before the other grandpa, maybe because of all the experimental Navy stuff, but probably because he worked in a steel plant after, and there was an "incident" in the late 80s.

Still almost enlisted on September 12, 2001. They didn't take me, because me and my brother were drunk as shit at the time.

Anyone remember this old gif of WW2 as a RTS team match?

https://external-preview.redd.it/mjjTrZPnVrHwwgN6hbOFy2i3BiviI4ktk93EXI_Oidk.gif?width=250&format=mp4&s=11154e9fc700be22ee9bb7cf090e452e802e55a4

The GIF itself, and the fact that I remember people used to speak like that on Warcraft 3 gives me a ton of nostalgia. Miss those 4v4 team fights.

obligatory Beavis & Butt-Head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqxoGTjNwe8

Must be why so many have mental health issues after serving be experiencing the horrors of war. The brainwashing wasnt successful

WalkingLobsters posted...

On a side note, does anyone else notice that war movies made in the past 25 years sort of glorify war? I know stuff like Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down, Hurt Locker have a significant amount of tragedy and the stress and consequential PTSD of combat, but the often movies have prevailing themes of camaraderie and brotherhood. In addition, they depict allied soldiers as courageous and noble fighters in a battle of good vs evil. At these films' conclusions, I feel a bit amped as I watch these valiant heroes make their triumphant last stand.

Compare that with stuff like Fullmetal Jacket or Platoon. I just feel like absolute crap after watching these movies. They're the type of movies with scenes that just linger in your head for a week. You'll just think back in class randomly, "that was fucked".

What do you guys think?

In SPR there is a scene after they conquer the beaches, where two German troops come out of a trench begging for their lives and holding their hands up. Two allied soldiers approach, mocking them as they can't understand them, and then shoot them. One remarks that they said "look, I washed for supper!"

What they actually were were two Czech enlisted... Sort of helpers. They weren't even combat units, they were just there as a sort of slave. They weren't nazis

Questionmarktarius posted...

My paternal granddad (army) was buried with full WW2 honors, and he never told anyone about that. He only started telling Korea stories when he was dying of three cancers at once, at the age of 82.

I did a perfect score on the ASVAB, and had recruiters up my ass for years. My maternal granddad (navy) telling me shit was enough to never want any of that. He died of cancer about twenty years before the other grandpa, maybe because of all the experimental Navy stuff, but probably because he worked in a steel plant after, and there was an "incident" in the late 80s.

Still almost enlisted on September 12, 2001. They didn't take me, because me and my brother were drunk as shit at the time.

Same, I got perfect on asvab as well. Buuut, it was around the time some of my older friends were coming back from Iraq super fucked up. So.... No. That's not for me

they show them the queen of diamonds

Doesn't TC have ear gauges or am I thinking of someone else?