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Current Events > TIL the chick who translated MGS2 into English thought Kojima was a hack

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#101
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UnfairRepresent
05/18/22 7:18:55 PM
#102:


sabin017 posted...
You have to admit the way they continued Liquid's character in MGS2 is really stupid.
Liquid is so weird

They clearly regret killing him in MGS1.... so they bring him back in totally convoluted ways... Yet everyone else they kill just turns up anyway.

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crayola555
05/18/22 7:19:33 PM
#103:


Yea she's mad

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g0ldie
05/18/22 7:22:14 PM
#104:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
Did you like... not listen to codec calls?
I have, that's why I brought up MGS3's radio team.

for example, we might hear about Snake having sled dogs, but there's nothing that fleshes that out.

there's a bunch of people saying things, but it never feels meaningful, IMO, as far as characterization goes.

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Punished_Blinx
05/18/22 7:23:35 PM
#105:


People love to mention all of the meta and meme stuff in MGS2 and yeah that's all done well.

But Raiden and Rose is supposed to be the emotional core of the game. Same with Otacon and his step siblings. It takes up a lot of dialogue and it's better left not remembering lol

g0ldie posted...
I have, that's why I brought up MGS3's radio team.

for example, we might hear about Snake having sled dogs, but there's nothing that fleshes that out.

there's a bunch of people saying things, but it never feels meaningful, IMO, as far as characterization goes.

Yeah like the girl who keeps talking to Snake about movies.

I don't feel like that fleshes out her actual character. It feels like I'm learning Kojima's opinion on a bunch of old movies.

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g0ldie
05/18/22 7:23:56 PM
#106:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

it's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you were to ask me if I think Kojima makes well-written characters, I would tell you no.

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UnfairRepresent
05/18/22 7:25:17 PM
#107:


g0ldie posted...
I have, that's why I brought up MGS3's radio team.
Who all end up being the Patriots lol

Remember Para medic blabbing on about Godzilla?

She ended up fucking up the entire world

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Smashingpmkns
05/18/22 7:26:02 PM
#108:


Pretty sure part of Snake's character is that these missions are his life lol

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Punished_Blinx
05/18/22 7:29:07 PM
#109:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Pretty sure part of Snake's character is that these missions are his life lol

It's not just Snake. They're all like it.

Same thing with Death Stranding.

None of them feel like actual people.

It's a video game so it doesn't matter all that much but there's a whole lot of dialogue in these games and it's still like that.

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g0ldie
05/18/22 7:30:01 PM
#110:


UnfairRepresent posted...
Who all end up being the Patriots lol

Remember Para medic blabbing on about Godzilla?

She ended up fucking up the entire world
I don't mind stories where heroes become villains somewhere along the line, but it made the MGS universe feel really small since so many characters and events were deeply connected to each other.

that's how I feel about the Star Wars universe, too, where you have this entire galaxy, but this small group of people are who end up mattering.

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DocileOrangeCup
05/18/22 7:30:03 PM
#111:


I like the writing and stuff in mgs honestly. I'm not a good judge of if things are good or bad though.

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Punished_Blinx
05/18/22 7:32:37 PM
#112:


I think Kojima characters tend to be one of the following;

"I have a tragic backstory and I'm going to explain to you in-depth about why I am the way I am"

"I have a goal in mind and I'm going to explain to you in-depth about why it needs to be done."

"I have a hobby I really care about and I'm going to explain to you in-depth about why I love it so much and examples of things I love"

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Unknown5uspect
05/18/22 7:58:01 PM
#113:


Imagine disagreeing with this assessment

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What_
05/18/22 8:09:21 PM
#114:


TheVipaGTS posted...
Shes right.

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#115
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EchoBaz
05/18/22 9:07:03 PM
#116:


Yeah, I'd be upset too if I wanted to break into the industry, and I don't even get credited.

God the games industry sucks!

But yeah, let's literally prove her right by talking about she's a woman, so she shouldn't have a voice, and shouldn't be able to write.

Stay classy, Gamefaqs.

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TendoDRM
05/18/22 9:07:55 PM
#117:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Says who? If this statement had any validity, MGS wouldn't be so popular.

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#118
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xGhostchantx
05/18/22 9:29:57 PM
#119:


Xatrion posted...
When she's right, she's right. MGS games just aren't fun to play. Or watch rather, considering how little you actually play them.

Out of the 11 games, there's like 2 like this my dude.
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Mibahlzitch
05/18/22 9:42:07 PM
#120:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

People said Uncharted was a masterpiece? I thought people said it was an incredibly accurate recreation of a fun indiana Jones style gunning and exploring popcorn movie that was playable. Not high art, but successful at really giving you that playing a light movie vibes

It's not exactly citizen Kane but it's not trying to be. Quips explosions, nasty badguys to shoot, some light puzzleish elements to make you feel like a b movie explorer and wild setpieces. It delivered what it promised.

Neither the deepest gameplay nor plot and a short run time, so it was like a popcorn movie in video game form in more ways than one.

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Crazyman93
05/18/22 9:42:36 PM
#121:


UnfairRepresent posted...
and I think he's extremely conventional, as in non-creative, when it comes to plotting
Is she aware of the plot of 4 and 5? Because that's incredibly generous after those cluster fucks.

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Ratchetrockon
05/18/22 9:49:28 PM
#122:


Ughh why does every1 try to dunk on my fave videogame director

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#123
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g0ldie
05/18/22 10:32:02 PM
#124:


that is pretty cool, tbh.

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Smashingpmkns
05/18/22 10:32:55 PM
#125:


Yeah I don't see a problem with that at all lmao

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Kim_Seong-a
05/18/22 10:39:11 PM
#126:


Punished_Blinx posted...
"I have a tragic backstory and I'm going to explain to you in-depth about why I am the way I am"

"Hey Snake!"

"Drebiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmn..."

"I see you just killed that chick. That's cool. Now if you give me 45 minutes I'll give you her entire biography."

But on the subject of Kojima's writing. It is incredibly cheesy and up its own ass, both ironically and unironically, sometimes both at the same time.

His scripts wont win any awards, but the stories are entertaining and memorable. The themes arent very subtle, sure, but the fact that he's explored those themes to a teenage audience that, at the time, probably didnt see that kind of stuff very often is still a mark in his favor imo.

I mean pretty much every action game these days is up its own ass and throwing existential, philosophical conundrums about the human condition these days, so MGS is going to seem old hat. But for its time I think it was great >_>

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#127
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Slayer_22
05/18/22 10:50:10 PM
#128:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Avant-garde!

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Kitt
05/18/22 10:54:30 PM
#129:


This mfer spittin'

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#130
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Smashingpmkns
05/19/22 12:11:11 AM
#131:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/4/8/AAPstsAADPwE.jpg

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Punished_Blinx
05/19/22 12:25:07 AM
#132:


If Kojima wrote Tenet;

The Protagonist: You...are me?
Future Protagonist: Yes I am. You will become me. We are in a time loop.
The Protagonist: Time Loop?!
Future Protagonist. Yes. I know the journey are on because I have already experienced it. You are the Protagonist of this story. I gave us this codename because *40 minute exposition about the nature of established fates for protagonists and how this draws a parallel with being in a predetermined time loop*
*credits roll*
Mr President...The Algorithm is a complete success. Now we can do what we actually wanted
*tense music

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#133
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Zero_Destroyer
05/19/22 12:36:56 AM
#134:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I don't think I've seen many Kojima fans who don't acknowledge a lot of his naming conventions are on the nose. That is part of the charm of some of his stuff; being overly on-the-nose with this kind of thing is only an innate negative if it's trying to be completely serious.

Interstellar ironically demonstrates far better than MGS ever could how much exposition can drag something; While MGS is pretty consistent in its gameplay > cutscene loops that consistently culminate in an extended finale, Interstellar essentially stops about 3/4ths of the way in to explain things to the audience in a way that isn't really consistent with the rest of the film and ultimately drags the amazing emotional components down because it doesn't have anywhere near enough faith in its audience.

Don't get me wrong- Insterstellar is better as a story than some (or most) of Kojima's MGS games, but it's substantially less interesting (or important) than MGS2 was, and fucks up exposition harder than Kojima ever does with the exception of MGS4.

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Smashingpmkns
05/19/22 12:44:59 AM
#135:


Interstellar is a fucking terrible movie lol it's boring as fuck and the characters are God awful. Not to mention that the dialogue is some of the worst dialogue put on screen in a movie held in such high regard. Nolan can't write dialogue for shit.

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g0ldie
05/19/22 12:46:30 AM
#136:


yea, outside of the visuals, I wasn't a fan of Interstellar.

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#137
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Gobstoppers12
05/19/22 1:00:37 AM
#138:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Interstellar is a fucking terrible movie
nah

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#139
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g0ldie
05/19/22 1:31:53 AM
#140:


I never said that I needed to relate to them, I was saying that I preferred them if they had some depth to their character.

take a side-character like Roman Bellic, for example - at least feels like a somewhat realized character since he has goals, hobbies, interests, shows a range of emotions, you can imagine him living life outside of what we see of him in some capacity, etc.

I personally like Snake better, but I feel like Roman is the better written character.

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pegusus123456
05/19/22 1:33:08 AM
#141:


g0ldie posted...
take a side-character like Roman Bellic, for example - at least feels like a somewhat realized character since he has goals, hobbies, interests,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn6xCFEDcUk&

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g0ldie
05/19/22 1:35:17 AM
#142:


Roman is the Neon of video games

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Gobstoppers12
05/19/22 1:42:30 AM
#143:


g0ldie posted...
take a side-character like Roman Bellic, for example - at least feels like a somewhat realized character since he has goals, hobbies, interests, shows a range of emotions, you can imagine him living life outside of what we see of him in some capacity, etc.
I mean...not for nothing, most of the villains in MGS are career soldiers who had terrible childhoods and never got to enjoy a normal life...and most of the people you interact with on the support crew have tons of optional codec calls full of personality, discussions about their personal interests, etc.

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Punished_Blinx
05/19/22 1:50:18 AM
#144:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
I mean...not for nothing, most of the villains in MGS are career soldiers who had terrible childhoods and never got to enjoy a normal life...and most of the people you interact with on the support crew have tons of optional codec calls full of personality, discussions about their personal interests, etc.

Imagine if people discussed their interests like the way Kojima characters do.

Adam: Hey John have you ever played a video game?
John: Video games?
Adam: Yeah it's an interactive medium where you control characters on a screen
John: Oh yeah I've played some of those
Adam: They're amazing! Talk to you later.

Adam: Hey John have you ever heard of Donkey Kong?
John: Donkey Kong?
Adam: Donkey Kong is a video game series created by Shigeru Miyamoto. It follows the adventures of an ape named Donkey Kong and his clan of other apes and monkeys. The franchise primarily consists of platform games, originally single-screen action puzzle games, and later side-scrolling platformers. The first game was the 1981 arcade game Donkey Kong, featuring the eponymous character as the main antagonist in an industrial construction setting and the debut of both the Donkey Kong and Mario characters. The game was a massive success and was followed by two sequels released in 1982 and 1983. In 1994, the franchise was relaunched with the platformer Donkey Kong Country, in which Donkey Kong defeats a variety of anthropomorphic enemies, mainly the Kremlings, a clan of crocodiles led by King K. Rool who antagonize the Kongs by stealing their banana hoard.
John: Oh yeah he wears red tie right?
Adam: That's right John!

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#145
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Punished_Blinx
05/19/22 2:10:06 AM
#146:


The problem isn't about 'interests' it's about how they're written as actual people.

People aren't walking exposition machines. Most people in MGS are.

Being obsessive about movies, burgers or Chinese proverbs doesn't mean they're a relatable character because the way they talk about it isn't really realistic or relatable. It feels more like they're talking to the player than Snake.

Like I just watched Severance. This is a TV show with a surreal concept involving characters who literally have no interests at all because of their current circumstance. Yet they're all written in a way that makes them compelling.

Kojima typically isn't able to do this. His characters are interesting because of their concept, their one liners or the twists and turns they provide to their general plot. But as far as actual characterization they're typically lacking.

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gna647
05/19/22 2:13:15 AM
#147:


As a MGS fan shes 100% right

the story is fucking stupid and it works

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ryudo500
05/19/22 2:13:18 AM
#148:


can someone tl:dr?

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g0ldie
05/19/22 2:17:59 AM
#149:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
I mean...not for nothing, most of the villains in MGS are career soldiers who had terrible childhoods and never got to enjoy a normal life...and most of the people you interact with on the support crew have tons of optional codec calls full of personality, discussions about their personal interests, etc.
I'm not saying that no attempts were made, but that I felt that, with few exceptions, characterization in the series was poorly handled.

like, I don't buy that a series that dedicated so much time going over Otacon's shitty sexcapades, or drawn out enemy death speeches, couldn't have dedicated a few more minutes to let us know more about Snake. I guess it's hard to explain, but when you talk to support, you might get someone saying something about themselves like it's from a list of personal facts. that's why I say MGS3's support team is the most fleshed out, since they seem like people who care about what they're talking about, and not all of it feels just related to the mission (I mean, it is, but in a fun, metaphorical way).

also, using the child soldier thing, and going back to GTAIV, Niko is probably one of the more fleshed out characters in gaming, from my experience. he's dealing with personal trauma, he wants to create a new life, he's a hypocrite, he's a good friend, you see him develop/regress, and so on, all in ways that are personal to him.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

that's not what I'm saying at all.

you can be a hermit and have more to your character than spouting off one-liners, and/or feeling like you were created for a specific role to fit a specific scenario.

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Slayer_22
05/19/22 2:25:27 AM
#150:


g0ldie posted...
I'm not saying that no attempts were made, but that I felt that, with few exceptions, characterization in the series was poorly handled.

like, I don't buy that a series that dedicated so much time going over Otacon's shitty sexcapades, or drawn out enemy death speeches, couldn't have dedicated a few more minutes to let us know more about Snake. I guess it's hard to explain, but when you talk to support, you might get someone saying something about themselves like it's from a list of personal facts. that's why I say MGS3's support team is the most fleshed out, since they seem like people who care about what they're talking about, and not all of it feels just related to the mission (I mean, it is, but in a fun, metaphorical way).

also, using the child soldier thing, and going back to GTAIV, Niko is probably one of the more fleshed out characters in gaming, from my experience. he's dealing with personal trauma, he wants to create a new life, he's a hypocrite, he's a good friend, you see him develop/regress, and so on, all in ways that are personal to him.

that's not what I'm saying at all.

you can be a hermit and have more to your character than spouting off one-liners, and/or feeling like you were created for a specific role to fit a specific scenario.
You also journey with Niko throughout the course of an entire year, easy, along with multiple life-changing events.

Expecting a game that takes place of the course of a single day to mirror the character development of a game that takes place over months/a year is absurd. If someone goes through as much character development as Niko in the course of a single day, that's kinda beyond unrealistic.

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