Current Events > White woman says she identifies as black

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/rachel-dolezal-nbc-today-show.html

2015

Good for her. I don't really see the problem here. I know we kind of make up the rules as we go but if that's what she is most comfortable with in her own skin, good on her.

So this is where Dilbert got the idea.

is race a social construct? I can sorta see it tbh, its not like racial categories existed before people made arbitrary lines of distinction to differentiate people

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/5/4/AAXtH0AADPSe.jpg

Transracialism makes more immediate sense than transgenderism.

Youre almost a decade late

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/5/8/AATz36AADPSi.jpg

she can say she relates more to black culture, wishes she was black, etc., but being black (or any other color) isn't something that you feel, but rather a social designation of what you are.

David1988 posted...

is race a social construct? I can sorta see it tbh, its not like racial categories existed before people made arbitrary lines of distinction to differentiate people

You can't be born a social construct.

g0ldie posted...

she can say she relates more to black culture, wishes she was black, etc., but being black (or any other color) isn't something that you feel, but rather a social designation of what you are.

Replace "black" with male/female. How is it different?

So she has a case of Transracial identity.. Kind of like this guy:
https://youtu.be/dzRxbqvGXzw

sutree posted...

Replace "black" with male/female. How is it different?

How are differences between sexes different than differences between arbitrary social constructs?

Knew it was gonna be about Dolezal

Going far into the way back machine for this one eh

sutree posted...

Replace "black" with male/female. How is it different?

don't they say that the brain of trans people generally resembles the gender they identify as?

You'd think trolling was against the rules

g0ldie posted...

don't they say that the brain of trans people generally resembles the gender they identify as?

Sorry, I don't know, nor do I know what that has to do with my question.

sutree posted...

Sorry, I don't know, nor do I know what that has to do with my question.

It has to do with how race realism would have to exist for your comparison to make sense.

Deutschenlied posted...

It has to do with how race realism would have to exist for your comparison to make sense.

How so?

How's the ass tho

what I'm saying is, if you identify as female, for example, regardless of your assigned gender, and your brain resembles a female brain, you might feel more inclined to present yourself as what you believe is more feminine, want your body to appear more feminine, etc.

as a black person, on the other hand, it's something that society might assign to you regardless of what your brain might tell you (like, you might be raised by people from a different race, or be biracial, as some examples).

like, I don't "feel" my race, but there are multiple things that make me feel like a man, like my physical desires.

edit: at post 21

Youd almost think these sorts of trolling topics were coordinated with how the transphobe accounts all immediately jump in with their trash opinions.

g0ldie posted...

don't they say that the brain of trans people generally resembles the gender they identify as?

I last heard that there is no "male" or "female" brain. We do know testosterone affects the brain though

I think @COVxy might have posted something along those lines once, but I could be wrong

g0ldie posted...

what I'm saying is, if you identify as female, for example, regardless of your assigned gender, and your brain resembles a female brain, you might feel more inclined to present yourself as what you believe is more feminine, want your body to appear more feminine, etc.

as a black person, on the other hand, it's something that society might assign to you regardless of what your brain might tell you (like, you might be raised by people from a different race, or be biracial, as some examples).

like, I don't "feel" my race, but there are multiple things that make me feel like a man, like my physical desires.

edit: at post 21

So race is only what society assigns you as, and personal identity has nothing to do with it? And, definitionally, society is always correct in how they assign race, as that is the only thing race is based on? And this is contrary to gender, where personal identity is the relevant factor in what your gender is. Is that your position?

sutree posted...

How so?

Men and women are objecticely different and we have to respect trans people because they were born the way they are. Race doesn't even exist on a similar level and "transracialism" is a choice based on racial stereotypes.

So she's blind?

Here's a paper on it
Neurobiology of gender identity and sexual orientation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
(The paper is pretty easy to read, very easy language is used throughout)

Deutschenlied posted...

Men and women are objecticely different and we have to respect trans people because they were born the way they are. Race doesn't even exist on a similar level and "transracialism" is a choice based on racial stereotypes.

So what do you think of all the trans people who don't have a biologically different brain than their assigned-at-birth sex? Are they mistaken about their gender? Would you tell a trans-man who has a biologically female brain that they can't be a man since they are actually biologically a woman?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Sorry, I don't know what this means. I'm glad that the people I'm conversing with are actually posting substantive comments, unlike you.

sutree posted...

Sorry, I don't know what this means. I'm glad that the people I'm conversing with are actually posting substantive comments, unlike you.

So the answer was yes

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I keep seeing that term, but I don't know what it means, >.<

sutree posted...

So race is only what society assigns you as, and personal identity has nothing to do with it? And, definitionally, society is always correct in how they assign race, as that is the only thing race is based on? And this is contrary to gender, where personal identity is the relevant factor in what your gender is. Is that your position?

my position is that "race" can feel arbitrary, and different cultures can define it differently.

like, in the US, since it used to not recognize miscegenation, a biracial (or multiracial) person who was part black would be considered black due to the "one-drop" rule, and some of those attitudes still exist. but if you go to a different country, they might be considered a different race.

also, black people weren't "black" until the Europeans came along; they might have been considered a member of a clan, a region, a country, etc. depending on who was referring to them.

but ultimately, there's no internal feeling of blackness a person feels over an internal feeling of whiteness someone else might feel.

that's why I call bullshit on this transracial stuff.

as far as gender goes, there's a cultural element, as far as gender expectations go, but there are also elements that would persist if the person were to be raised outside of any specific culture.

JanuarySun posted...

I keep seeing that term, but I don't know what it means, >.<

It's when you're in a discussion and you ask for a source from your opponent. They present to you that source so you ask for another one. They present to you that source and you ask for another one. Repeat that process until you've successfully deflected from the actual discussion so hard that your opponent is tired of dealing with your bullshit so they just quit talking to you and you can declare yourself the winner.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


A_Good_Boy posted...

It's when you're in a discussion and you ask for a source from your opponent. They present to you that source so you ask for another one. They present to you that source and you ask for another one. Repeat that process until you've successfully deflected from the actual discussion so hard that your opponent is tired of dealing with your bullshit so they just quit talking to you and you can declare yourself the winner.

Okay, thank you for clearing that up. I won't be confused about it anymore, >.<

I'm out of touch, I guess.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

He is literally arguing for biological-gender realism. I am asking those questions because, for obvious reasons, that sort of gender realism is typically seen as contrary to transgenderism. So I'm a bit flabbergasted if that really is his position.

g0ldie posted...

don't they say that the brain of trans people generally resembles the gender they identify as?

This makes sense as brain activity is a reflection of your thoughts and how you act. Also if they're on cross-sex hormones, that would have a powerful effect.

CrimsonWaffle posted...

So she has a case of Transracial identity.. Kind of like this guy:
https://youtu.be/dzRxbqvGXzw

Lol, came here to post this.

Have a lot of studies been done on the brains of transracial folx?

g0ldie posted...

my position is that "race" can feel arbitrary, and different cultures can define it differently.

like, in the US, since it used to not recognize miscegenation, a biracial (or multiracial) person who was part black would be considered black due to the "one-drop" rule, and some of those attitudes still exist. but if you go to a different country, they might be considered a different race.

also, black people weren't "black" until the Europeans came along; they might have been considered a member of a clan, a region, a country, etc. depending on who was referring to them.

Right, obviously racial categorization is usually arbitrary and constructed
g0ldie posted...

but ultimately, there's no internal feeling of blackness a person feels over an internal feeling of whiteness someone else might feel.

But this seems clearly wrong. I certainly "feel" white, in that my self-identity complies with what society classes me as. And if people suddenly started calling me black I'd tell them they were confused. And most people probably feel this compliance. But, there are cases, such as Dolezal, or if you look up Anthony Ekundayo Lennon, where people don't feel this compliance. And who are you to tell them that they think they are the wrong race, when it is so obviously arbitrary? This is what I mean when I say transracialism is far easier for me to accept than transgenderism. The concept of race is so arbitray and variable that you are going to get these weird cases.

Good article about Anthony Lennon:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/07/anthony-lennon-theatre-director-accused-of-passing-as-black-interview-simon-hattenstone

CE "try not be transphobic while utilizing a thin veil of passive aggressive plausible deniability" challenge

g0ldie posted...

don't they say that the brain of trans people generally resembles the gender they identify as?

Some people do say that, but the study they are referring to does not. I dont know if its ever even been replicated.