Current Events > I over analyze a plot "issue" in Dr. Strange MoM (SPOILER)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Legato-and-Vash posted...

One thing that bothered me is Evil Strange saying "Prove it" and our Strange mentioning the death of his sister. That's something that could have been very unique to our Strange. It's a different universe, so I would expect things to not play out exactly the same in the beginning (although I know technically it's possible). But the odds of him meeting another Strange with everything being the same up to that moment are extremely low.

Right? That was a...weirdly specific thing.
It should have been something he knew was consistent, like the lady friend of his, which coincidentally they get to.
Don't know why they chose his sister.

Personally I find the movie not terribly well written (though I've had some questions adequately answered) but entertaining.
The privacy invasion sidewalk, the bee, the visuals, Wanda acting, even the settings.
I love Wong, the ever immune to blunt damage. Shoulda died like 3 times, never does.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

One thing that bothered me is Evil Strange saying "Prove it" and our Strange mentioning the death of his sister. That's something that could have been very unique to our Strange. It's a different universe, so I would expect things to not play out exactly the same in the beginning (although I know technically it's possible). But the odds of him meeting another Strange with everything being the same up to that moment are extremely low.

I agree with this. I thought he was going to say "Uh, my sisters still alive and well. Die imposter!"
Or maybe he even killed her with the darkhold....

Legato-and-Vash posted...

But the odds of him meeting another Strange with everything being the same up to that moment are extremely low.

Actually they're extremely high. There is an infinite number of other Doctors Strange who had that same experience. Probably in most universes where he is at the sanctum and became an Avenger, he had roughly the same childhood experiences.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

One thing that bothered me is Evil Strange saying "Prove it" and our Strange mentioning the death of his sister. That's something that could have been very unique to our Strange. It's a different universe, so I would expect things to not play out exactly the same in the beginning (although I know technically it's possible). But the odds of him meeting another Strange with everything being the same up to that moment are extremely low.

I think the opposite. Most Stranges probably had very similar lives up until the moment they became Doctor Strange, because events before that moment would impact the outcome of that event, or even whether it occurred at all.

Yeah most variants are generally the same such as things like having children and not having children.....

Legato-and-Vash posted...

One thing that bothered me is Evil Strange saying "Prove it" and our Strange mentioning the death of his sister. That's something that could have been very unique to our Strange. It's a different universe, so I would expect things to not play out exactly the same in the beginning (although I know technically it's possible). But the odds of him meeting another Strange with everything being the same up to that moment are extremely low.

Some things are universal constants that happen no matter what timeline/universe you're in.

VandorLee posted...

Yeah most variants are generally the same such as things like having children and not having children.....

Earth-616 Wanda did have children.

CableZL posted...

Earth-616 Wanda did have children.

Magic children....aka not children
Mental breakdown copied children

VandorLee posted...

Magic children....aka not children
Mental breakdown copied children

She did have children, just not in the same manner as her other variants did in other universes.

By creating Vision through magic, she ended up getting pregnant and having two kids.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yes

CableZL posted...

She did have children, just not in the same manner as her other variants did in other universes.

By creating Vision through magic, she ended up getting pregnant and having two kids.

Magic fake cloned from another universes children.

VandorLee posted...

Magic fake cloned from another universes children.

They weren't cloned from another universe. She gave birth to them.

Again, multi-universal constants.

VandorLee posted...

Magic children....aka not children
Mental breakdown copied children

Did you know that in the comics, Wanda had enough power to alter reality? Not like making illusions, but LITERALLY alter reality?

I'm not saying that there is no scrutiny to be had with what happened, but arguing semantics about whether those children "existed" or not doesn't really matter to Wanda. It was her reality and one that she saw thousands of other variants got to live. Again, it isn't about if she is acting logically or if her kids were alive or not... it was real for her and rather than deal with her sorrow and loss in a positive way she choose a different path.

CableZL posted...

They weren't cloned from another universe. She gave birth to them.

Again, multi-universal constants.

The plot of the movie says otherwise....

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Did you know that in the comics, Wanda had enough power to alter reality? Not like making illusions, but LITERALLY alter reality?

I'm not saying that there is no scrutiny to be had with what happened, but arguing semantics about whether those children "existed" or not doesn't really matter to Wanda. It was her reality and one that she saw thousands of other variants got to live. Again, it isn't about if she is acting logically or if her kids were alive or not... it was real for her and rather than deal with her sorrow and loss in a positive way she choose a different path.

So one universe or multiple with children.

And TBH she could have dream walked good wanda to suicide and taken over afterwards....

VandorLee posted...

The plot of the movie says otherwise....

No it doesn't. She was dreaming about her variants' kids after she lost her own.

Wanda having kids is likely a universal constant. There will be a few universes where it may happen in a slightly different manner, but she still has kids.

And as Jeff AKA Snoopy mentioned, Wanda has the ability to warp reality to her liking, which is entirely what she was doing in WandaVision in the first place.

VandorLee posted...

So one universe or multiple with children.

And TBH she could have dream walked good wanda to suicide and taken over afterwards....

There are consequences to taking over a dead body. They actually addressed and answered your critique with what Strange did.

CableZL posted...

No it doesn't. She was dreaming about her variants' kids after she lost her own.

Wanda having kids is likely a universal constant. There will be a few universes where it may happen in a slightly different manner, but she still has kids.

And as Jeff AKA Snoopy mentioned, Wanda has the ability to warp reality to her liking, which is entirely what she was doing in WandaVision in the first place.

So were saying she has endless possibilities of universes with her kids where they wernt magic kids....

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

There are consequences to taking over a dead body. They actually addressed and answered your critique with what Strange did.

She shadow walks suicides good wanda and then goes to the universe using portal.

VandorLee posted...

She shadow walks suicides good wanda and then goes to the universe using portal.

She didn't say what she was planning to do with the original Wanda from that universe once she had the power to travel between universes. Maybe that was her plan, we don't know.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/3/AAVeaUAADOH7.jpg

VandorLee posted...

So were saying she has endless possibilities of universes with her kids where they wernt magic kids....

What will really break your mind is what if in all other universes, Wanda's kids are magic kids?

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

What will really break your mind is what if in all other universes, Wanda's kids are magic kids?

Thanks for spoiling What If...? season 7, bro

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

What will really break your mind is what if in all other universes, Wanda's kids are magic kids?

Just hexing the town indefinitely was a better plan if thats the case.

VandorLee posted...

Just hexing the town indefinitely was a better plan if thats the case.

I mean, the whole story of Wanda is that she is in mourning and rather than deal with her loss and grief she decided to bend and change reality. Why feel loss when you can just not accept that loss?

Why was she forced to kill her husband when it didn't even matter ultimately? Why did she have to suffer that, especially if she has the power to change it?

She realized that the other Avengers and the world she lives in would never make it "easy" for her to have the world she wanted. And she didn't want to harm her friends. Plus she didn't have the power to hop to another universe. As soon as that became available she went for that route.

She was willing to kill a version of herself instead of fighting her friends and causing any more trouble to them.

It is actually pretty deep and satisfying to dive into.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

She was willing to kill a version of herself instead of fighting her friends and causing any more trouble to them.

Was she willing? She seemed to be deluding herself on that. Taking control of the body and doing horrible things, and hurt her sure, kill? Uncertain from what we saw, unless I dont remember a scene that showed her saying she would kill isntead of dodging the question.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

She was willing to kill a version of herself instead of fighting her friends and causing any more trouble to them.

Pretty much completely wrong....

LightHawKnight posted...

Was she willing? She seemed to be deluding herself on that. Taking control of the body and doing horrible things, and hurt her sure, kill? Uncertain from what we saw, unless I dont remember a scene that showed her saying she would kill isntead of dodging the question.

That is a fair criticism. With the influence of the Darkhold it is hard to tell what was all her own line of thinking, what was influenced by it, and how much was grief.

The fact she would murder all those heroes makes me think that she wouldn't have really paused at killing a version of herself.

Within the infinite universes, they exist. You could also find a universe where she birthed chinchillas. Marvel works on a "literally every universe you can imagine exists" kind of multiverse. She triggered a multiversal chain reaction effect in which all the evil books are destroyed. Seems fairly simple.

Nemu posted...

Within the infinite universes, they exist. You could also find a universe where she birthed chinchillas. Marvel works on a "literally every universe you can imagine exists" kind of multiverse. She triggered a multiversal chain reaction effect in which all the evil books are destroyed. Seems fairly simple.

Ok chain together all universes having her happy with her kids if they can pull bullshit like that...

I forget. Was it confirmed whether or not she can actually bear children?

CyricZ posted...

I forget. Was it confirmed whether or not she can actually bear children?

They keep matrix dodging this question....

VandorLee posted...

Shed rather possess herself and kill tons of people than try to just fuck someone else for kids.....

They wouldn't be her kids with Vision, in whatever way they come to be. Again not logical, just how she feels.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

They wouldn't be her kids with Vision, in whatever way they come to be. Again not logical, just how she feels.

Theres an infinite number of universes where she has kids with other people...

You see what i did there?

Oh and go fuck white vision

At this point you're just being stubborn. Her reasoning makes sense when you view it from a perspective of grief, and that's really the end of it.

I'm pretty sure Vision would be the father of the kids. The very reason Ultron built the Vision body was to have access to a biological vessel. The material Vision is made of is refered to as synthetic flesh, which can be coded to recreate organs and human anatomy. Sure, Ultron laced that material vibranium but it should still be synthetic flesh. Ultron couldn't use the mind stone as a robot, he needed a living body to access it.

Obviously he's not simply a synthetic human, since he operates as an AI which can upload and download data, and doesn't need to eat or breathe, but he is close to being a human. Besides, maybe the Vision in the other reality was a biological person.

I'm guessing Wanda's magic pulled their appearances from the other realities somehow.

The thing I don't quite understand is, she has that entire mountain to herself. Could she not recreate her family herself there without harming anyone else?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

At this point you're just being stubborn. Her reasoning makes sense when you view it from a perspective of grief, and that's really the end of it.

And when you leave out many things. Sure.

The plot had to force a few things and not answer others. I do get its just a super hero movie.

it's just a marvel movie

designed to be dumb fun and nothing more

Since when has "go have some more kids" ever been an appropriate response to a mother grieving over the loss of her children lmao.

You're trying to apply rationale to an entirely emotional response (heightened by the darkhold).

IMNOTRAGED posted...

Since when has "go have some more kids" ever been an appropriate response to a mother grieving over the loss of her children lmao.

You're trying to apply rationale to an entirely emotional response (heightened by the darkhold).

Her kids weren't real, lol. She's upset her fantasies of being a mother were shattered. Becoming an actual one seems like a good solution.

E_S_M_Z posted...

Her kids weren't real, lol. She's upset her fantasies of being a mother were shattered. Becoming an actual one seems like a good solution.

Except she was able to use inter-dimensional magic to reveal they are real somewhere out there, so any such arguments are rendered moot in her crazy mind.

I'm sure this was mentioned/answered before, but how is the MCU Earth 616? Does that make the comics and the MCU completely different entities since the main comic universe is also 616? As in, not apart of the same multiverse.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

I'm sure this was mentioned/answered before, but how is the MCU Earth 616? Does that make the comics and the MCU completely different entities since the main comic universe is also 616? As in, not apart of the same multiverse.

That's the designation given to it by that one universe, so it's probably just 616 according to their system and #99999 or whatever it was in the full scope of the multiverse.

Nemu posted...

That's the designation given to it by that one universe, so it's probably just 616 according to their system and #99999 or whatever it was in the full scope of the multiverse.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

I'm sure this was mentioned/answered before, but how is the MCU Earth 616? Does that make the comics and the MCU completely different entities since the main comic universe is also 616? As in, not apart of the same multiverse.

I would say the comics and the movies are separate. For the movies, they've been changing stuff from the comics here and there.

IMNOTRAGED posted...

Since when has "go have some more kids" ever been an appropriate response to a mother grieving over the loss of her children lmao.

You're trying to apply rationale to an entirely emotional response (heightened by the darkhold).

Since when was:

"Hex a town and make everyone under your control and magically create a family and when that fails use evil magic to kill a child to get her powers to go to another universe to kill yourself and take your own kids from yourself" an appropriate response to anything?