Current Events > Thoughts on kids and Ramadan?

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How is it not child abuse to prevent your kid from eating and drinking? Speaking of abuse, I used to work with a lady that would end up passing out every year because the pos husband wouldn't wake her up during the short time they could eat

BTW, I'm not talking shit. I'm actually curious why some people seem okay with starving kids

KayfabeTactics posted...

BTW, I'm not talking shit

[ x ] Doubt

omega cookie posted...

[ x ] Doubt

I'm not

I feed kids at a school, and I see how hungry they are. But they all seem to be really happy and in good spirits

Children arent required to. Some might because their parents do, but there is no religious must for children to do so. There are actually a good number of exceptions on who must fast during that time.

Senta posted...

Children arent required to. Some might because their parents do, but there is no religious must for children to do so. There are actually a good number of exceptions on who must fast during that time.

Ah, okay. I'm all for kids expressing their religious freedom, I just don't want the parents to pressure them into it.

why not do a food drive if it's supposed to be about appreciating what you have and being aware of what others don't have? never understood what's possibly constructive about fasting all day, besides saving your own food

Religious fasting is so stupid.

you maybe should've briefly googled whether kids are expected to fast before making this topic

Yeah google could have avoided this topic lol.

KhlavicLanguage posted...

you maybe should've briefly googled whether kids are expected to fast before making this topic

They're not expected to but some parents definitely do make their kids participate, and that should absolutely be considered child abuse.

Senta posted...

Children arent required to. Some might because their parents do, but there is no religious must for children to do so. There are actually a good number of exceptions on who must fast during that time.

This, but depending on where in the world the child is the pressure they will feel to fast will vary. I grew up in a very conservative town in Bangladesh and while I was never directly pressured to fast for Ramadan as a child, there was certainly the perception that it would be a very good thing if I did based on how the adults talked about it. Additionally, much like how kids deal with social norms in most cultures, if you werent fasting when you were a kid in school you would get picked on for not following cultural norms. These factors combined as well as some others lead to more kids than not fasting for Ramadan at a young age. Technically by the rules of Islam a child doesnt have to fast until they reach puberty around the age of 14, but in many traditional places in the world children are encouraged to fast as early as 7 though they arent pressured per se.

Unfortunately as always culture can turn a perfectly valid religious precept toxic, its not like Islam demands a child has to fast, but the cultural practices surrounding the precept can certainly make a kid feel like they should do so.

What an embarrassing topic.

It's not like kids starve for a month, isn't it just that you wait until sundown?

Doe posted...

It's not like kids starve for a month, isn't it just that you wait until sundown?

Do they stop growing from sunrise to sunset?

viewmaster_pi posted...

why not do a food drive if it's supposed to be about appreciating what you have and being aware of what others don't have? never understood what's possibly constructive about fasting all day, besides saving your own food

Good point.

Although there's no saving food, the month is marked by friends and family doing a ton of food and dessert exchange to mark the occasion

Doe posted...

It's not like kids starve for a month, isn't it just that you wait until sundown?

Basically youre supposed to fast each day from sunrise to sundown, the amount of time that entails fasting for depends on where youre in the world and what season it is. Summers usually lead to longer fasts like easily averaging 14 hours because of the longer days, but its a bit shorter during the winter due to the shorter days. Unfortunately some Muslims in places like Iceland have to fast much longer hours, I believe for Iceland this year its around 17 hours.

DeadBankerDream posted...

What an embarrassing topic.

Not at all. I've had my eyes opened thanks to this topic

No shame in learning and becoming a better person

viewmaster_pi posted...

why not do a food drive if it's supposed to be about appreciating what you have and being aware of what others don't have? never understood what's possibly constructive about fasting all day, besides saving your own food

Every masjid I know runs regular food drives and stuff like that, the biggest Islamic Center in my state also offers free healthcare. These things are done in tandem.

I hate that trolls have made it so every topic like this is immediately taken on bad faith.

Shablagoo posted...

Every masjid I know runs regular food drives and stuff like that, the biggest Islamic Center in my state also offers free healthcare. These things are done in tandem.

that's good, but i mean historically, why not one instead of the other? so much in religion seems to be about punishing yourself for things you haven't actually done wrong, over helping each other

KayfabeTactics posted...

Not at all. I've had my eyes opened thanks to this topic

No shame in learning and becoming a better person

Agreed.

viewmaster_pi posted...

that's good, but i mean historically, why not one instead of the other? so much in religion seems to be about punishing yourself for things you haven't actually done wrong, over helping each other

I'd say that's more consistent in religions that make a big deal out of Original Sin. Ramadan isn't seen as punishment, nor is it based on having done anything wrong. It's just considered a display of gratitude.

Well, I say that, but in my experience: My wise old friend really does do it out of gratitude and a sense of "centering", while my childhood friend's dad was just real hardline about maintaining identity.

Guide posted...

Ramadan isn't seen as punishment, nor is it based on having done anything wrong. It's just considered a display of gratitude.

While this is technically correct, I just always found it odd how if fasting during Ramadan is something to be done out of gratitude, why is it considered sinful to not fast(assuming youre of good health and not a child)? I guess thats sort of a punishment for not showing your gratitude to god and hence why not fasting is considered a sin, but still its just weird when its supposedly about gratitude.

it's not an absolute rule anyway, the people i know often opted out to not fast when the situation are not supporting it (menstruation, sickness, travelling long distance, heavy labor, etc).
don't know how it works, but they said they can fast after Ramadan over to replace the missing days.

also idk if it's cultural thing, but kids here are only expected to "half-fast", where they can break the fast at midday instead of sunset.

children under 10 years are not required to fast, ofc.

Ricemills posted...

children under 10 years are not required to fast, ofc.

In our community fasting is only compulsory once you've finished puberty, so anywhere between 15 and 20 I guess.

That said, a lot of children do 'half-fasts' or once they're older, fast a few days instead of the whole month

David1988 posted...

This, but depending on where in the world the child is the pressure they will feel to fast will vary. I grew up in a very conservative town in Bangladesh and while I was never directly pressured to fast for Ramadan as a child, there was certainly the perception that it would be a very good thing if I did based on how the adults talked about it. Additionally, much like how kids deal with social norms in most cultures, if you werent fasting when you were a kid in school you would get picked on for not following cultural norms. These factors combined as well as some others lead to more kids than not fasting for Ramadan at a young age. Technically by the rules of Islam a child doesnt have to fast until they reach puberty around the age of 14, but in many traditional places in the world children are encouraged to fast as early as 7 though they arent pressured per se.

Unfortunately as always culture can turn a perfectly valid religious precept toxic, its not like Islam demands a child has to fast, but the cultural practices surrounding the precept can certainly make a kid feel like they should do so.

Interesting perspective--I appreciate hearing it. I don't know if anyone here is into Freakonomics but in their second book the authors explain that women who are in their first trimester during Ramadan often have children with strikingly more severe health problems because they aren't getting enough calories during Ramadan at a time when it's crucial for fetal development...

indica posted...

Interesting perspective--I appreciate hearing it. I don't know if anyone here is into Freakonomics but in their second book the authors explain that women who are in their first trimester during Ramadan often have children with strikingly more severe health problems because they aren't getting enough calories during Ramadan at a time when it's crucial for fetal development...

i thought pregnant women are forbidden to fast?

nvm, just googled it. they are exempted, but allowed to fast if they're physically able to do so.

Pregnant women are exempted, but it's sort of similar to how I was saying kids could feel "pressured" to fast despite not having to by the letter of the religious doctrine. Obviously this depends on how conservative and traditional the community is, but the town I'm from it was pretty common for pregnant women to fast unless theres was obvious dire health consequences. When you come from a place where you can be harshly judged for not following your religious obligations to the best of your abilities, it puts a bit of psychological pressure on one's self even though they dont technically have to go through with it. Theres more to it than that of course, like the feeling of being left out of an important religious/family function, but just like everywhere else in the world, women are even more harshly judged or can face social consequences if they choose to not follow cultural norms despite having perfectly valid reasons, so its really not surprising many pregnant women in parts of the world like Bangladesh choose to fast.

KayfabeTactics posted...

How is it not child abuse to prevent your kid from eating and drinking? Speaking of abuse, I used to work with a lady that would end up passing out every year because the pos husband wouldn't wake her up during the short time they could eat

BTW, I'm not talking shit. I'm actually curious why some people seem okay with starving kids

I observed Ramadan as a kid and had no issues. Went to school, played sports, and pretty much had a normal schedule. Parents werent forceful either.

ShaheerRahman posted...

I observed Ramadan as a kid and had no issues. Went to school, played sports, and pretty much had a normal schedule. Parents werent forceful either.

Which means everyone must of had the same experience as you?

spikethedevil posted...

Which means everyone must of had the same experience as you?

If it's not a universally bad experience is it something to be concerned about?

If a kid is clearly suffering that's one thing but chances are that's on the family more than the religious practice itself. Like basically anything else really.

This users name is their gimmick btw

DespondentDeity posted...

This users name is their gimmick btw

keen observation -_o

I feel like kids, depending on their age, can benefit from not eating for a few hours. That isnt a take on the child obesity crises its more about being grateful for what they have and appreciating sacrifice.

Lets be real, no one is going to die from not eating between sun up and down for a month so I dont have a problem with older kids fasting with their families.

Thank you, everyone

whitelytning posted...

I feel like kids, depending on their age, can benefit from not eating for a few hours. That isnt a take on the child obesity crises its more about being grateful for what they have and appreciating sacrifice.

Lets be real, no one is going to die from not eating between sun up and down for a month so I dont have a problem with older kids fasting with their families.

If anything more research seems to come out every day that eating less leads to a longer life. I think its just about habit and what were used to because scientifically speaking its frankly hilarious anyone is clutching their pearls; going 12 hours without eating isnt the impossible, human body-breaking task some are making it out/imagining it to be.

Im waiting for the thread where Kayfabetactics finally declares bedtime is child abuse.