Current Events > Can we have a civil discussion about transgender MTF competing in women's sports

(+) Yeah! (+)

?

or will mods get too angry?

If you wanted a civil discussion, you'd have called her what she is: a trans woman

teep_ posted...

If you wanted a civil discussion, you'd have called her what she is: a trans woman

okau than a trans woman competing in womans sports.

haven't you been modded for saying not so civil things before, though, or am I thinking about someone else?

teep_ posted...

If you wanted a civil discussion, you'd have called her what she is: a trans woman

Most of the people who "only care about fairness" seem to go out of their way to say anything but "trans woman" or "woman". It's "they", "this person", "transgender"

g0ldie posted...

haven't you been modded for saying not so civil things before, though, or am I thinking about someone else?

ive been civil in every approach

but you've been modded before on this subject, right?

It always boils down to the same. Some see nothing wrong with it. Some will bring biology, genetics while the other side rebuts with hormone therapy lowering testosterone and muscle mass.

What bothers me is people getting called bigots due to raising concerns about it. Is very complicated and it never ends in a civil manner.

I think you clearly know the answer to your question is 'no.'

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truu

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Cause TC needs attention and he needs it now

g0ldie posted...

but you've been modded before on this subject, right?

mods arent perfect people. If they see something that theyre offended by even though its not intentionally offensive, theyll mod you because it hurts their feelings. Gfaqs mods are the most sensitive people in the WORLD

No, you cant.

You're either 100% onboard or youre transphobic trash. There is no civility to be had concerning this topic.

Tag lol.

SSJPurple posted...

No, you cant.

You're either 100% onboard or youre transphobic trash. There is no civility to be had concerning this topic.

so your telling me, Someone who has conditioned their body as a male as an athlete, decides to transition one day, can compete in womens sports?

you do know all that muscle and body building doesnt just magically go away right? They still have all the male advantages

gna647 posted...

so your telling me, Someone who has conditioned their body as a male as an athlete, decides to transition one day, can compete in womens sports?

Yes

gna647 posted...

so your telling me, Someone who has conditioned their body as a male as an athlete, decides to transition one day, can compete in womens sports?

you do know all that muscle and body building doesnt just magically go away right? They still have all the male advantages

Loss of strength starts pretty quickly after blocking testosterone.
Like...have you ever read anything about how HRT works? Because it doesn't sound like you're familiar with the subject.

I think it's usually fine, because trans women usually don't enjoy a disproportionate advantage in women's sports.

The controversy arises when someone who was already a peak men's division athlete transitions into the women's division. That can lead to ridiculous competitive stomping and bizarre records being set. Because transitioning just doesn't necessarily bring a peak men's athlete down to the level of a peak cis woman athlete; it reduces their performance, yeah, but doesn't necessarily clear the gap.

I don't know what to do about it beyond just limiting one's ability to switch between competitive divisions. Like say if you ever won an award or set a record in the field for men, you are no longer allowed to switch to the women's field, and vice-versa.

The logical endgame of this whole discussion is to do away with gender based sports divisions, which is obviously a bad idea, but the topic is too incendiary for people to approach that point.

biologically male men should compete with each other

biologically female men should compete with each other

biologically female women should compete with each other

biologically male women should compete with each other

it's not a bad idea at all, the logical solution is to do away with gender divisions in most sports and break up sports into height/weight classes depending on the sport.

Sports are fucking stupid regardless. Let them get real jobs.

SSJPurple posted...

No, you cant.

You're either 100% onboard or youre transphobic trash. There is no civility to be had concerning this topic.

I think most levelheaded people can have discussions about things like, for example, how we define womens sporting leagues, what sort of genetic or physical advantages are considered fair or unfair (in womens leagues or otherwise), what guidelines should be followed to ensure that trans women and/or other intersex athletes arent excluded from sports. The issue is that the end goal of a majority of people who claim to want to have civil discussions about the matter is the exclusion of trans and intersex athletes from competitive sports. And a huge reason they have this goal is because they do not see trans women as real women. No meaningful or civil discussion can be had without, at a minimum, the basic humanity of the people around whom the discussion is oriented being acknowledged and respected.

HolierThanMao posted...

biologically male men should compete with each other

biologically female men should compete with each other

biologically female women should compete with each other

biologically male women should compete with each other

That's the same as banning trans people from sports entirely. There aren't very many of us.
I mean, even before we get to how that others trans people.

Robot2600 posted...

it's not a bad idea at all, the logical solution is to do away with gender divisions in most sports and break up sports into height/weight classes depending on the sport.

But women would still almost never win anything. Even trans women notably underperform the scores they had prior to transitioning.

Option A) Discrimination
Option B) Unfair Competition

Transwomen put in that work and represent. Let them keep winning!

Hoodroar posted...

But women would still almost never win anything. Even trans women notably underperform the scores they had prior to transitioning.

if that's the case, then my idea sucks. i think it would have the opposite effect, though.

the average height of a WNBA player is 6'0''

if we allowed men under 6'0'' tall to play in the WNBA would the men have a competitive advantage? I don't think so.

do men who weigh exactly the same (or even a little less to compensate for boobs being "dead fighting weight"), and are the same height as said women have a significant combat advantage?

imagine a woman your weight and height and she also does MMA, would she not utterly destroy you?

that's why it's not uncommon to hear about girls on high school wrestling teams: they are competing in a weight class, and even if there might be some disadvantages, the competition is still meaningful as a result

one problem with this system might be a lack of players, but that hasn't stopped wrestling, plus more people (i.e. smaller) would get to compete in sports that they could never compete in.

Here, have two takes:
https://twitter.com/AlanaFeral/status/1504910308665532419
She's literally my desktop background lol I need a strong woman to open jars for me, ok?

https://www.newsweek.com/why-im-proud-support-trans-athletes-like-lia-thomas-opinion-1689192
And this article, written by Olympic swimmer Erica Sullivan:

I have been given a platform to advocate for my community, and I can't sit silently by as I see a fellow swimmer's fundamental rights be put up for debate. All swimmers embody a diverse set of identities and characteristics. What makes us each unique also contributes to our success in the pool. Yet no one questions the validity of how cisgender athletes' unique traits and skills, or who they are, contribute to their success. However, University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas has been unfairly targeted for just thatfor being who she is, a transgender woman.
Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labeled a cheater simply because of her identity.

Id rather people just be allowed to do their thing and be their own person. I doubt the problem of unfairness is that pervasive. Is there any satisfactory data on this anyway? Like are we not hearing about the other 95% of transgender athletes that transition and do middling mediocre performance in their new realm?

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https://youtu.be/GUIu86y68kA