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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 11:21:55 AM #1: |
My guess is that 28% that do not are rich and would be buttmad that they bleed forced workers. https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/news/universal-basic-income-survey/ Key findings ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 11:23:23 AM #2: |
Gen Zers (ages 18 to 24): 83% support, 17% dont Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont womp womp womppp ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 11:24:36 AM #3: |
WingsOfGood posted... My guess is that 28% that do not are rich and would be buttmad that they bleed forced workers. That's a biased take. You could also say 72% are lazy and just want a handout. --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DirkDiggles 02/08/22 11:26:01 AM #4: |
Does this mean that I can quit my job and laze around? --- Intel 486, Integrated videocard, 16MB RAM, 64MB HD, 3 1/4 inch floppy ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 11:27:27 AM #5: |
NightingaleMD posted... That's a biased take. You could also say 72% are lazy and just want a handout. I would actually worker harder if I had UBI than I do on my job that pays me well. This is because UBI would allow me to pursue interests like writing which doesn't have a instant payoff and might take some time to figure out how to do well. Meanwhile, sitting on my butt at my IT job which affords me to post here during workhours gives me instant payoff and financial security. It doesn't however help me innovate beyond providing some sort of value to shareholders who themselves are not innovative either. @NightingaleMD What do YOU do for a living may I ask? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Southernfatman 02/08/22 11:27:54 AM #6: |
Too bad it's not about what the people want, but what the rich want and they want us as weak and downtrodden and desperate as possible so sadly, the government won't do it. --- http://i.imgur.com/hslUvRN.jpg When I sin I sin real good. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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s0nicfan 02/08/22 11:34:45 AM #7: |
Just 14% of all consumers think the payments should go to every adult living in the U.S. if the government implemented UBI. Don't call it UBI if your position is "More money for me, yes, but not for everyone, and only if I'm not paying for any of it." That isn't UBI. That's just welfare, and it creates the same welfare trap where there's an income threshold where you risk making LESS with higher pay because you lose all your low income benefits. EDIT: To qualify that "only if I'm not paying for it" comment. past studies have shown that support for UBI drops dramatically if people are told they might have higher taxes to pay for it: https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/half-of-us-would-support-universal-basic-income-but-support-drops-if-benefits-are-cut-or-taxes-rise/ However, when individuals were asked to consider UBI funded through increased taxation, support dropped to 30%, with 40% opposed. When they were asked to consider UBI funded through cuts in welfare benefits spending, support dropped to 37%, with 30% opposed. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 11:37:20 AM #8: |
WingsOfGood posted... I would actually worker harder if I had UBI than I do on my job that pays me well.
Your first statement is incorrect. Perhaps it's correct for you, but welfare systems again and again have shown at least in American more money = less likely to work. That's why Ohio had to repeal the covid bonus to welfare because too many people left the workforce and wouldn't rejoin unless the money was taken away. They did NOT spend the year of it..."innovating." I'm an emergency doctor. I have the most intricate, firsthand knowledge of how the most poor live. I also see rampant medicaid/medicare abuse like you would never believe. Like most EM docs, I entered medical school a democrat and left residency a republican after being exposed to reality. It's interesting you mention writing as an explicit example. I am also a published author. I do this in my spare time and it accounts for about 25% of my annual income. That statement alone says a lot about you. I worked 80 hours a week in residency and still found time to write. If you cannot find time to write "because of your job," I'm sorry, but you're just lazy. --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Gwynevere 02/08/22 11:40:27 AM #9: |
NightingaleMD posted... Your first statement is incorrect. Perhaps it's correct for you, but welfare systems again and again have shown at least in American more money = less likely to work.Gonna need a source on that one that's not your ass --- A hunter is a hunter...even in a dream ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 02/08/22 11:43:31 AM #10: |
It makes sense to me. There's so many benefits and welfare systems and confusion out there There's so many people who can't afford rent or go to collegue or put the heating on. Universial Income or whatever you want to call it just sounds like it would cost LESS in tax than we spend on Welfare and costs that occur from crime and homelessness. And would be a moral and pragmatic gain. I'm not an economist but I don't really see the argument against it? I mean I DO Get the logic of "IF everyone gets $800 a month then after a few years the cost of living will rise by $750 a month." Which is true But how is that different than what's happening now? Inflation has been a thing for a long time and that's more to do with the failures of America's right wing government to have a healthy economy. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Biofighter55 02/08/22 11:44:04 AM #11: |
Gwynevere posted... Gonna need a source on that one that's not your ass i believe him I work in IT and during the first year of the pandemic. Many people told me they were making more money from unemployment than they ever then at their job. So they would apply to jobs, but they made it look bad so they werent get called for an interview or if they did get the call thwy would never show up --- This is my sig. Don't like it, then don't look at it. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KainWind 02/08/22 11:44:12 AM #12: |
I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right? --- Momentai ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Gwynevere 02/08/22 11:47:48 AM #13: |
Biofighter55 posted... i believe him"Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence --- A hunter is a hunter...even in a dream ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Biofighter55 02/08/22 11:48:26 AM #14: |
UnfairRepresent posted... It makes sense to me. Ive got a couple of raise because our company is doing well but because of inflation, I dont feel like Im making more. My life style is more or less the same. the price of groceries is terrible since thats were most of it goes and than some in savings --- This is my sig. Don't like it, then don't look at it. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Biofighter55 02/08/22 11:49:20 AM #15: |
Gwynevere posted... "Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence i like how you cut out my explanation of why I believe him but whatever --- This is my sig. Don't like it, then don't look at it. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 11:50:08 AM #16: |
Gwynevere posted... "Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence No one is stopping you from using google This took four seconds https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/portman-difference/expanded-unemployment-benefits-continue-undermine-hiring-ohio-0 It's not a primary source, but a link to like 20 primary sources from news all over the state EDIT: I don't even know why I'm engaging on this part, this isn't even controversial among dems or GOP. It's just you choosing not to believe it. Won't engage further. --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Were_Wyrm 02/08/22 11:51:01 AM #17: |
If only 70ish% of our leaders supported it. --- I was a God, Valeria. I found it...beneath me. - Dr. Doom https://i.imgur.com/0EJvC4l.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 11:51:34 AM #18: |
NightingaleMD posted... That's why Ohio had to repeal the covid bonus to welfare because too many people left the workforce and wouldn't rejoin unless the money was taken away This is a lie. It has been proven that these bonuses are not why people left nor did they rejoin after the idiot republicans removed the bonuses. NightingaleMD posted...
As in, poor people who are overcharged for ER are desperate to not go into debt for life? This has made you into a republican? NightingaleMD posted...
What do you write about? Fyi, there is 168 hours in a week. To be healthy you should have 8 hours of sleep. So there is actually 112 hours in a week. You worked 80 hours, so there is only 32 hours left. But then, if you are healthy person, you still need at least 1 hour a day to get food\cook it, and an hour for exercise. 32 - 7 = 25 and lets say you don't workout everyday, maybe 3 times a week. 22 hours left. So you basically did nothing but write? No family, friends, girlfriend, hobbies? This is also not counting you likely had to spend 1-2 hours to commute back and forth for work and other things like having to poop. @NightingaleMD ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 11:55:12 AM #19: |
People on medicaid Don't pay a bill. My taxes pay their bill. ~I~ pay for every ED visit from the poor. If you have a job, so do you.
Try telling that to residency committees. LOL, 8 hours of sleep. This guy.... Also, cannot talk about my writings. I am totally anonymous online. I'm not a major author (if I were, I wouldn't work) but I'm known enough to find myself on a bookshelf.
Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later. --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ElatedVenusaur 02/08/22 11:57:09 AM #20: |
KainWind posted... I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right?A lot of people straight up dont understand that tax brackets are progressive. Also both political parties are dedicated to pushing the idea that benefits shouldnt go to the undeserving. --- I'm Queen of Tomorrow baby! She/her ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MixedRaceBaby 02/08/22 11:57:49 AM #21: |
where money --- For the mixed race babies! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MedeaLysistrata 02/08/22 11:57:49 AM #22: |
UBI either means a basket or a place to live --- "Why is ontology so expensive?" - JH [Is this live?][Joyless planet...] ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voldothegr8 02/08/22 12:00:25 PM #23: |
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/4/AAZV24AABSnu.jpg --- Oda break tracker 2022- 1 (1) | THE Ohio State: 12-2 | Las Vegas Raiders: 10-8 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g980 02/08/22 12:01:51 PM #24: |
I like the idea of UBI from a worker empowerment perspective, and putting to rest the idea that private companies should be relieving the government of their obligation to their citizens' welfare On the other hand, i hate the possibility that we end up with a million delusional talentless "artists" Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement --- These old bones live to learn her wanton ways: (I measure time by how a body sways). ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Gwynevere 02/08/22 12:03:07 PM #25: |
NightingaleMD posted... No one is stopping you from using googleThat link offers nothing to suggest that people were quitting just to collect unemployment benefits. It doesn't even acknowledge the fact that working conditions in the pandemic were horrid, compounding frustrations of wages stagnating for decades You can't just make the claim that welfare itself is what discourages work, without taking everything else that may factor into that decision into consideration --- A hunter is a hunter...even in a dream ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g980 02/08/22 12:03:30 PM #26: |
KainWind posted... I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right? If no one is paying more into ubi than they get out, how is it funded...? (Corporate taxes still come out of someone's wallet at the end of the day) --- These old bones live to learn her wanton ways: (I measure time by how a body sways). ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 02/08/22 12:03:51 PM #27: |
Biofighter55 posted... Ive got a couple of raise because our company is doing well but because of inflation, I dont feel like Im making more. My life style is more or less the same.Now imagine that situation but you haven't got a raise, let alone 2 or more. Now you're in the boat of half of Americans --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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averagejoel 02/08/22 12:05:36 PM #28: |
giving $1000 each to three tenants is functionally giving $3000 to their landlord. that's why I do not support UBI --- peanut butter and dick ... Copied to Clipboard!
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cuttin_in_farm 02/08/22 12:12:32 PM #29: |
NightingaleMD posted... Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later. This dude says this and still doesnt get why thats an issue lol. And we shouldnt use welfare as comparison. Welfare has a blatant cap where if you dont make a large enough jump in income, youd do worse by increasing income, since you lose benefits. --- A show of kindness may not do much help, but a show of cruelty may do much harm. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BettyWhite 02/08/22 12:14:20 PM #30: |
Gwynevere posted... That link offers nothing to suggest that people were quitting just to collect unemployment benefits. It doesn't even acknowledge the fact that working conditions in the pandemic were horrid, compounding frustrations of wages stagnating for decades As a person who grew up around a lot of welfare abuse, it's always been that the second you start working you lose food stamps, medicaid, housing assistance. So hustling under the table plus collecting welfare is the most advantageous position you can take. Especially when entry-level jobs essentially cause you to make less money and create more stress than the welfare/hustle combo. I always thought you could just expand assistance and even incentivize working without the threat of losing your security. Only taking it away once you reach an actual comfortable income level. --- Thank you for being a friend <3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:40:18 PM #31: |
g980 posted... Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement That is infact what UBI is though.... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Southernfatman 02/08/22 12:41:26 PM #32: |
We sure do get a lot of doctors, lawyers, and other high paying occupations here on CE. I bet they drive Ferraris, have 10" dongs, and date supermodels too. It's also funny how certain folks get more mad at people abusing welfare than the rich abusing tax loopholes and other laws. --- http://i.imgur.com/hslUvRN.jpg When I sin I sin real good. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:43:44 PM #33: |
NightingaleMD posted... People on medicaid Don't pay a bill. My taxes pay their bill. ~I~ pay for every ED visit from the poor. If you have a job, so do you.If they are poor, isn't that the point of medicaid? NightingaleMD posted... Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later. So you want this to be the default meaning of not lazy? To barely be able to sleep? And I still don't get your point. Professional writers say you should write 8 hours a day to be really good. You believe you are on their level with just a few hours and cranking out 2000 words? It is like you didn't quite understand what I was saying but just wanted to call me lazy. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:45:58 PM #35: |
[LFAQs-redacted-quote] No one will want to work at his business underpaid. You are right that fewer people working means the value of each job goes up. This is exactly why the rich hate this idea so much. Their interest lies in paying you as little as possible or they will not make as much profit. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:48:52 PM #36: |
cuttin_in_farm posted...
Well it seems he may be bitter about having to have worked 80 hours a week. So why should other people be able to be successful working less hours? Kinda a funny irony there. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Trumble 02/08/22 12:52:05 PM #37: |
WingsOfGood posted... Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont^ Notice how the correlation with this age group and not supporting these kind of measures, is even stronger than the correlation with high income? --- Give a man a Trumble, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to Trumble, you feed him for a lifetime. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MrDrMan 02/08/22 12:52:52 PM #38: |
Im all for it. The government can not be trusted with our money. --- Pimpin aint easy Chiefs/Royals/Lakers 2015/2016 champs baby ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Guerrilla Soldier 02/08/22 12:53:52 PM #39: |
honestly, though? who cares what old people think? just because they lived in a world that wanted them to fail doesn't mean we need to continue that tradition for any specific reason --- Disclaimer: There's a good chance the above post could be sarcasm. Die-hard Oakland A's fan --- Keep the A's in Oakland! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:57:33 PM #40: |
g980 posted... Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement To explain some more what I mean above that this is exactly what UBI is. The point of UBI is to cover BASIC needs to not die. Will you be able to buy a car with UBI? No. Will you get a fancy place to live? No. Can you eat at a fancy steakhouse with UBI alot? No. Will it help you pay for rent and food? Yes. Will it help you cover medical costs? Yes. So, most people will infact still work jobs, even flipping burgers at McDonalds. Infact, more people might fill low wage jobs since they can afford to live while being at them. More people can go to college since they won't have to kill themselves as much working multiple jobs to pay for it (unless greedy universities raise prices more). Why? Because most people don't want just the lowest standard economy apartment as their standard of living. Will there be male neets who are ok with that and just playing video games all day? Probably, but also most likely not anymore then than there is now. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 12:58:08 PM #41: |
MrDrMan posted... Im all for it. The government can not be trusted with our money. B-b-b-b-but! Better to give that money to the MILITARY than to NEETS!!!!!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solid_Seb 02/08/22 1:03:19 PM #42: |
NightingaleMD posted... I'm an emergency doctor. I have the most intricate, firsthand knowledge of how the most poor live. I also see rampant medicaid/medicare abuse like you would never believe. Like most EM docs, I entered medical school a democrat and left residency a republican after being exposed to reality. Poor people trying to not get screwed by our medical system doesn't seem that bad to me, maybe I'm missing something? If anything this highlights the flaws in our healthcare system. Also, to say this NightingaleMD posted... If you cannot find time to write "because of your job," I'm sorry, but you're just lazy. And follow up with this NightingaleMD posted... Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later. Seems a bit contradictory. If you aren't pushing yourself to the point of barely sleeping you are lazy? Is this a "I did it so anyone else who doesn't just isn't trying" argument? People are different, if every person was cut out to be a doctor then we'd all be doctors. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g980 02/08/22 1:04:49 PM #43: |
totalnerdken posted...
Because we need people to work in order to have things to spend money on Increasing the demand for labor is good, but i dont want to shoot past the sweet spot to where you cant find anyone to fix your toilet because no one dreams of being a plumber WingsOfGood posted...
Yea man i get you this is something we probably 90% agree on --- These old bones live to learn her wanton ways: (I measure time by how a body sways). ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 02/08/22 1:18:30 PM #45: |
EITC basically is already. Wouldn't take much to expand it into an actual UBI. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 02/08/22 1:22:14 PM #46: |
[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Do you think employers want to do these things though? :D ... Copied to Clipboard!
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RchHomieQuanChi 02/08/22 1:24:34 PM #47: |
Just more evidence that the U.S. isn't a democracy --- I have nothing else to say ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 1:48:37 PM #48: |
WingsOfGood posted... If they are poor, isn't that the point of medicaid?My point is you're complaining about them paying bills. They aren't paying for anything. They can come and go as they please in the emergency department and rack up tremendous costs to the state and federal government. They often come here for things I'd never even go to my regular doctor for. It's horrid abuse. Elon musk has an excellent quote about this. Something to the effect of "no one ever accomplished anything on a 40 hour work week." It's true.
That probably applies to full, professional writers. I don't accept advances for due dates because I'm not a "professional writer," insofar as it's not my full time job. Like I said, it's a quarter of my total income. I'm a full time doctor by profession. So yes, 2,000 words every day or few days is enough for me. If I were a fulltime writer then no, that would be quite lazy :P --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NightingaleMD 02/08/22 1:49:55 PM #49: |
Anyway, my point is don't hide behind your job as a reason to not be writing. Rowling wrote her first book homeless. My idol Stephen King wrote carrie as a high school teacher. Very few people start as "full time writers." If you've got a good idea in your head, write it down! Don't hide behind work as a reason to delay. If you can't write right now, you won't be able to write fulltime, I promise. --- Pit doc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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cuttin_in_farm 02/08/22 1:50:09 PM #50: |
NightingaleMD posted... "no one ever accomplished anything on a 40 hour work week." It's true. Yikes. At least youre consistent lol. --- A show of kindness may not do much help, but a show of cruelty may do much harm. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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