Board 8 > Pokemon Legends Arceus: Over 6 million sold already.

(+) Yeah! (+)

FYI Pokemon literally has more employees on the marketing team than the development team. Although for all I know that's an industry standard.

StealThisSheen posted...

We're ultimately going to have to agree to disagree on the whole graphics comparison debate, because to me, if you have to take the game out of the hardware to make it look better, and the hardware wouldn't run the improved version the same, visually, then... You're no longer comparing a Gamecube/PS2/whatever game. You're just comparing... A game. What the hardware is capable of is very important to the argument of "This looks like a *System here* game."

It's still the same assets and programming though. It's just spitting out at a higher resolution. Nothing about the PS4 version of Psychonauts can't RUN on a PS2, there's nothing new in the game, it's just spitting out a better signal.

...This is of course ignoring how the PS4 version of Psychonauts is actually butt and full of visual glitches.

Mac Arrowny posted...

No. Delaying a game a year for better graphics would be terrible. Like delaying Endwalker a year to make it look as good as FFXV or something would've been an awful decision, for another example.

Seemed to work out alright for Halo Infinite.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Remember my favorite games are mostly jrpgs with let's say quaint graphics from the snes-ps2 era

I don't really care what other people do though, but Gamefreak clearly doesn't have a graphically impressive bone in their body and hasn't for 25 years now.

Honestly, with some of the Red and Green sprites, I'd argue they were never really any good at graphical design.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't really care what other people do though, but Gamefreak clearly doesn't have a graphically impressive bone in their body and hasn't for 25 years now.

Gen 2 through 5 looked great for their era I think. 1 as well if you just focus on Yellow. The Switch to 3D is really what threw them for a loop.

I still love this thread.

https://twitter.com/thatanimeweirdo/status/1428371497131839490?s=20&t=_1c65dr3tzsRoN3WbSCwcw

KamikazePotato posted...

Graphics have always been important for open-world games, and Arceus is so far below the standard that it's a legitimate issue.

idk man I'm enjoying this game a lot more than BotW even though it doesn't look as good. Then again I don't think it looks bad at all, it does have some weird graphical glitches in places though, but they haven't hindered my enjoyment

UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's still the same assets and programming though. It's just spitting out at a higher resolution. Nothing about the PS4 version of Psychonauts can't RUN on a PS2, there's nothing new in the game, it's just spitting pit a better signal.

...This is of course ignoring how the PS4 version of Psychonauts is actually butt and full of visual glitches.

I mean, my argument stands. If the PS2 doesn't spit it out at that resolution, then you're not actually comparing it as a PS2 game. If you're going to specifically use the hardware in your argument, then you have to go by the standards of the hardware. That seems incredibly logical to me, because what you're describing is not what you actually see on a PS2.

KamikazePotato posted...

Gen 2 through 5 looked great for their era I think. 1 as well if you just focus on Yellow. The Switch to 3D is really what threw them for a loop.

Compare r/s/e to Zelda and weep, kp. It's just not true lol

JackMan posted...

Seemed to work out alright for Halo Infinite.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/5/1/AAeolZAAC47L.jpg

JackMan posted...

I know why they dont. Im saying it would be nice if they did. The rest of Nintendo generally seems to give a damn about the quality of their games, so its a shame Gamefreak dont seem to have the same standards.

Do you think Nintendo is unhappy that GF releases a top 10 Switch bestseller just about once per year? There's gotta be zero chance that GameFreak isn't meeting Nintendo's arbitrary standards of quality. What would stop them from helping out?

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/5/1/AAeolZAAC47L.jpg

Uh, thanks for proving my point?

StealThisSheen posted...

I mean, my argument stands. If the PS2 doesn't spit it out at that resolution, then you're not actually comparing it as a PS2 game. If you're going to specifically use the hardware in your argument, then you have to go by the standards of the hardware. That seems incredibly logical to me, because what you're describing is not what you actually see on a PS2.

But the actual contents of the game CAN spit out at a higher resolution.

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this!

JackMan posted...

Uh, thanks for proving my point?

I wasn't disagreeing I just love that picture.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Do you think Nintendo is unhappy that GF releases a top 10 Switch bestseller just about once per year? There's gotta be zero chance that GameFreak isn't meeting Nintendo's arbitrary standards of quality. What would stop them from helping out?

Im sure Nintendo are thrilled. Again, Im just saying it would be nice if GF could make games with the same quality as most of the rest of Nintendo. I dont understand whats so controversial about that.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

But the actual contents of the game CAN spit out at a higher resolution.

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this!

The point is that Arceus would've looked better if they targeted 480 when developing it.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I wasn't disagreeing I just love that picture.

Ah, fair enough.

Assassin's Creed was putting out near-yearly games for a while. It's dev team size is significantly higher than Pokemon's though

Well get a PLA HD Edition in 5 years.

SwiftyDC posted...

Well get a PLA HD Edition in 5 years.

N.

Onyx black and Auracite White

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Do you think Nintendo is unhappy that GF releases a top 10 Switch bestseller just about once per year? There's gotta be zero chance that GameFreak isn't meeting Nintendo's arbitrary standards of quality. What would stop them from helping out?

Most of the biggest first party Nintendo releases of the last several years required major aid from 3rd party companies. If it weren't for Mario Odyssey I wouldn't have much confidence that they had the ability to go all out on AAA title by themselves anymore.

Unless Odyssey had some major outside help as well that I'm unaware of.

Wouldn't be surprised if they just skip Gen 5 honestly

Mac Arrowny posted...

The point is that Arceus would've looked better if they targeted 480 when developing it.

Man I don't actually believe that for a second.

Gamefreak's issue here is the 3D, not the resolution. They were gonna use these models and environments even if it was being planned for composite.

SwiftyDC posted...

Well get a PLA HD Edition in 5 years.

They have plenty of legendary pokemon to work with to spit out this game with an identical engine and new maps. Pokmon Legends Rayquaza for early 2024 at the absolute latest and the only thing different is maybe they'll have worked out multiplayer by then.

The Arceus models look okay. It's really the environments that don't.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Man I don't actually believe that for a second.

Gamefreak's issue here is the 3D, not the resolution. They were gonna use these models and environments even if it was being planned for composite.

Are you saying the 3DS games looked worse than the Switch games?

JackMan posted...

Im sure Nintendo are thrilled. Again, Im just saying it would be nice if GF could make games with the same quality as most of the rest of Nintendo. I dont understand whats so controversial about that.

It's not controversial? You're talking about subjective quality here which is fine, I was just pointing out that if you were talking about differences in the standard of quality between the two companies, obviously what GameFreak is doing is good enough for Nintendo.

It's not like all Nintendo games are winners either, this is clearly within their acceptable range.

I mean fuck we all saw the N64 emulation thing, right? Nintendo isn't exactly setting the bar high anymore.

KamikazePotato posted...

The Arceus models look okay. It's really the environments that don't.

It's not actually the models specifically, but the actual lighting engine that's causing the main problem with the Pokmon themselves. Trying to find the comparison thread now, but it does side by sides to show very clearly that even when BDSP and Arceus are using the same models, they look a lot worse in Arceus because the shading is a lot worse.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Most of the biggest first party Nintendo releases of the last several years required major aid from 3rd party companies. If it weren't for Mario Odyssey I wouldn't have much confidence that they had the ability to go all out on AAA title by themselves anymore.

Unless Odyssey had some major outside help as well that I'm unaware of.

Right, so you can see how comparing these to Arceus, a game with a shorter development time by a smaller team that did not have major 3rd party aid, is a little lopsided?

I won't say it's unfair - this is something they should be doing but aren't for whatever reason, and I want to know why not! But it's just a very different scenario.

I've always said I blame Nintendo, not Gamefreak, for failing to give them what they need to work with.

...Though I didn't say that in this topic I suppose.

But yes they don't have access to the same resources and are being forced to churn, and that's the source of the problem.

I also don't want to give the impression that the issue is solely visuals. Like, maybe give them an extra couple weeks and this quest tracker wouldn't be so bafflingly terrible??

Game Freak has stated they prefer a smaller dev team.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's not actually the models specifically, but the actual lighting engine that's causing the main problem with the Pokmon themselves. Trying to find the comparison thread now, but it does side by sides to show very clearly that even when BDSP and Arceus are using the same models, they look a lot worse in Arceus because the shading is a lot worse.

I 100% agree with this, the lighting makes everything look like plastic.
Edit: I don't care, graphics for me aren't a huge deal and this is the best pokemon iteration in a long time. But I'd be lying if I said the game didn't have graphical issues.

Its one thing for people to say I dont care about the graphics, its fun, but when youre literally saying its good that the graphics are bad, then youre just being a fanboy.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anybody said it's good that the graphics are bad?

Not directly of course. There's that one guy that shunned extra development time to polish the graphics, which is arguably a much, much opinion to have.

I think it's kinda ridiculous to blame Nintendo for GF's lack of quality.