Current Events > What's up with that one Star Trek episode with Westley?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kid was doing reasonably fine and then all the sudden it's like, congrats You were a dumbass and a kid died as a direct result of your actions!

Felt kinda outta left field. Was there some weird behind the scenes reason they went in that direction, or did they just decide to ruin the characters life for the hell of it? >_>

the writers said "Shut up, Wesley", with the script.

Oh you mean when Wesley Crusher got involved with the air show tragedy.

I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but the point wasn't that he did something horrible. It *was* an accident, it was something all the Red Squad members agreed to practice knowing the danger of it, and unfortunately it went horribly wrong. What Red Squad did wrong was attempting to cover up the accident and essentially blame the dead kid for it when they were all in on it. Once again it's shown that this isn't directly Wesley's orchestration but in fact he and the others are being manipulated by the squad leader who seeks to preserve his graduation.

The real dilemma in the episode is Wesley's split loyalty with his friends in the squad, and his loyalty to Picard and Starfleet ideals. That's where I'm not a fan of the episode's conclusion, that being how Picard just threatens Wesley that he'll report the truth and get them all fucked if Wesley doesn't rat. Kinda leaves Wesley without any choice of how to resolve things.

Why did they feel comfortable having something so bad happen to him? Well, I don't know how aware the writers were at the time of audiences' distaste for Wesley (despite IMO him being an excellent character after S1 where everyone sucks). They may have wanted to humble the Wunderkind.

Doe posted...

Oh you mean when Wesley Crusher got involved with the air show tragedy.

I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but the point wasn't that he did something horrible. It *was* an accident, it was something all the Red Squad members agreed to practice knowing the danger of it, and unfortunately it went horribly wrong. What Red Squad did wrong was attempting to cover up the accident and essentially blame the dead kid for it when they were all in on it. Once again it's shown that this isn't directly Wesley's orchestration but in fact he and the others are being manipulated by the squad leader who seeks to preserve his graduation.

The real dilemma in the episode is Wesley's split loyalty with his friends in the squad, and his loyalty to Picard and Starfleet ideals. That's where I'm not a fan of the episode's conclusion, that being how Picard just threatens Wesley that he'll report the truth and get them all fucked if Wesley doesn't rat. Kinda leaves Wesley without any choice of how to resolve things.

I mean it makes sense since it gives Wesley an out. He can either go down with his friends, or he can do the harder thing and admit the truth because he knows it will come out regardless. If anything, it made his choice that much easier.

gunplagirl posted...

I mean it makes sense since it gives Wesley an out. He can either go down with his friends, or he can do the harder thing and admit the truth because he knows it will come out regardless. If anything, it made his choice that much easier.

I guess admitting the truth can be harder in the sense of hurting his friends, but in terms of career survivability, being the one to cave first is pretty much your absolute best bet to not get your ass kicked out of the academy permanently. That ends up even happening in the episode, Wesley just has to repeat a year and graduate quietly while the squad leader loses everything. IIRC Picard even admits to Wesley that his survival was a huge leniency from the board.

I just think that Picard putting that threat on the table makes it a less interesting morality choice. It should've been about the kind of person and officer Wesley wanted to be.

That was a great episode.

Funnily enough, I think I posted about this episode on CE when I watched it and called it 'close to character assassination'.

Doe posted...

I guess admitting the truth can be harder in the sense of hurting his friends, but in terms of career survivability, being the one to cave first is pretty much your absolute best bet to not get your ass kicked out of the academy permanently. That ends up even happening in the episode, Wesley just has to repeat a year and graduate quietly while the squad leader loses everything. IIRC Picard even admits to Wesley that his survival was a huge leniency from the board.

I just think that Picard putting that threat on the table makes it a less interesting morality choice. It should've been about the kind of person and officer Wesley wanted to be.

That's true. But it also kind of shows that Picard really did care about Wesley a lot more than he might care to admit.

Doe posted...

I just think that Picard putting that threat on the table makes it a less interesting morality choice. It should've been about the kind of person and officer Wesley wanted to be.

Maybe if it was more of "this is your decision, I've told you where I stand and the rest is up to you?"

Like keep the Truth speech but switch the threat to washing his hands of Wesley.

DrizztLink posted...

Like keep the Truth speech but switch the threat to washing his hands of Wesley.

yea i think that'd be better. but gunplagirl may be right and Picard felt responsible

The "threat" had to be put down because Picard discovered the truth and by his own words he was bound to have it be known. He had faith that Wesley would do the right thing.

Doe posted...

Oh you mean when Wesley Crusher got involved with the air show tragedy.

I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but the point wasn't that he did something horrible. It *was* an accident, it was something all the Red Squad members agreed to practice knowing the danger of it, and unfortunately it went horribly wrong. What Red Squad did wrong was attempting to cover up the accident and essentially blame the dead kid for it when they were all in on it. Once again it's shown that this isn't directly Wesley's orchestration but in fact he and the others are being manipulated by the squad leader who seeks to preserve his graduation.

The real dilemma in the episode is Wesley's split loyalty with his friends in the squad, and his loyalty to Picard and Starfleet ideals. That's where I'm not a fan of the episode's conclusion, that being how Picard just threatens Wesley that he'll report the truth and get them all fucked if Wesley doesn't rat. Kinda leaves Wesley without any choice of how to resolve things.

Why did they feel comfortable having something so bad happen to him? Well, I don't know how aware the writers were at the time of audiences' distaste for Wesley (despite IMO him being an excellent character after S1 where everyone sucks). They may have wanted to humble the Wunderkind.

I can sort of see that. It just seemed kinda weird that they went out of their way to bring back his character specifically for this plot. It was an oddly dark turn that didn't seem necessary.

Idk how he was in season 1 since I skipped it lol, but yeah I agree I liked him well enough. I can see how the child prodigy shtick can get annoying, but I felt that episodes like the one where he was made the leader of some science team did a good job of showing that he still had a way to go to grow into the responsibility of his talents.

MorbidFaithless posted...

That was a great episode.

I think the episode was a good story, and the themes it explored were really well done. I just felt it kind of jarring that it was Wesley lol.

Doe posted...

Funnily enough, I think I posted about this episode on CE when I watched it and called it 'close to character assassination'.

It's not like Wesley was a dynamic character anyway. If you asked me to name three of his personality traits it would be like: Eager, smart and uhhh nosy?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I thought that was hilarious. >_>

Then of course the robot went and just made his own daughter. And Reading Rainbow guy accidentally created a sentient intelligence as part of a holodeck game.

...you know come to think of it, I wonder if that robot rights trial applies to Moriarty lol.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

...you know come to think of it, I wonder if that robot rights trial applies to Moriarty lol.

there's a voyager episode that implies that no, it doesn't. even though it really should.

On the same note did they ever explain how or why he dropped out (and then became the Traveler's assistant)?

Kim_Seong-a posted...

...you know come to think of it, I wonder if that robot rights trial applies to Moriarty lol.

If you listen to what the arbiter in that case decides, she actually doesn't declare Data a person because she feels she isn't qualified. She merely rules that Starfleet can't force Data to undergo the procedure.

Voyager actually explores this a little more. At one point, they gain the ability to send short messages back home and learn that the Emergency Medical Hologram on Voyager is sort of the last of his kind. His version was seen as a failure and all of the others have been transferred to more menial jobs like mining. He writes a holonovel loosely based on Voyager to parallel their plight, but inadvertently makes the crew look like shit. When he's convinced to edit it, he learns that his would-be publisher already went ahead and did so without his permission - he's not a person, so the publisher didn't need his permission.

They have an arbitration, very similar to Data's. This time the judge decides that he also isn't qualified to rule that the Doctor is a person, but does extend the definition of artist to include him, meaning artificial lifeforms do own the rights to their creations. The episode ends with a bunch of EMH's in a mine, one telling another to read the holo-novel.

And in Picard, of course, the Federation just becomes racist slave owners, so fuck Measure of a Man, I guess.

Ruvan22 posted...

On the same note did they ever explain how or why he dropped out (and then became the Traveler's assistant)?

TNG episode Journey's End.

pegusus123456 posted...

Journey's End.

Ahh thanks, now that I read the wiki I think I remember seeing parts of that ep