Current Events > 'Billionaires are bad' 'Wtf millionaires are really good people and stuff!'

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Ok... I don't agree with you,

How do the people who own walmart make money?
Do they sit in a store themselves, stock the shelves, crunch the numbers all themselves?

Damn_Underscore posted...

So you're calling financial markets pyramid schemes in other words?

not far off from the truth. it certainly functions in the same way

Ok... I don't agree with you, but if the economy ever collapsed, having a job wouldn't even matter. So you're better off assuming it won't collapse and hoping you don't get unlucky.

it's not an opinion. there's nothing to disagree with.

regardless, individual actions make no difference in the context of systemic analysis

darkphoenix181 posted...

How do the people who own walmart make money?
Do they sit in a store themselves, stock the shelves, crunch the numbers all themselves?

The way Walmart treats its workers is considered in its share valuation tho. In fact if you think that Walmart's business model isn't sustainable because all the employees could just walk out one day, them don't invest in them.

Damn_Underscore posted...

The way Walmart treats its workers is considered in its share valuation tho. In fact if you think that Walmart's business model isn't sustainable because all the employees could just walk out one day, them don't invest in them.

What? You are saying all their employees can quit and they would still be making loads of money?

Damn_Underscore posted...

The way Walmart treats its workers is considered in its share valuation tho. In fact if you think that Walmart's business model isn't sustainable because all the employees could just walk out one day, them don't invest in them.

whether or not any individual should consider investing in a company is irrelevant to the conversation here

There comes a point when you gain so much money that its no longer about being able to buy whatever you want. Its a status of power. You put yourself way above others due to how much money you have and how much you own.

It goes for celebrities too. Well, celebrities also spend their money on dumb shit. Nicolas Cage bought a 30 million dollar dinosaur a while back. What does he need with a 30 million dollar dinosaur? A great conversation piece I guess. But I assume if most of the common folk attained that level of money they'd spend it on dumb shit as well.

darkphoenix181 posted...

What? You are saying all their employees can quit and they would still be making loads of money?

No? I'm saying that if you think Walmart's business model is basically hanging on a thread because they treat their employees badly and all the employees have to do is not take it anymore, then you shouldn't invest in them and you won't have to worry about that.

Just to give an example, the most expensive stock I own is a Google share and it has only increased in value since I bought it. I don't know what will happen to Google in the next few decades, but I'm pretty confident that mass strikes will never be an issue for them.

Also one reason why it's a good idea to invest in ETFs or mutual funds is that you don't have to worry about single businesses failing and the only way you'll go broke is basically if the economy as we know it collapses.

Damn_Underscore posted...

No? I'm saying that if you think Walmart's business model is basically hanging on a thread because they treat their employees badly and all the employees have to do is not take it anymore, then you shouldn't invest in them and you won't have to worry about that.

Just to give an example, the most expensive stock I own is a Google share and it has only increased in value since I bought it. I don't know what will happen to Google in the next few decades, but I'm pretty confident that mass strikes will never be an issue for them.

Also one reason why it's a good idea to invest in ETFs or mutual funds is that you don't have to worry about single businesses failing and the only way you'll go broke is basically if the economy as we know it collapses.

Ah, so you are trying to avoid the question and change what we are talking about.

YOU said: capitalism doesn't necessitate an exploited worker class

I asked: Do the owners of Walmart do the work themselves? If not, how do they make money?

So, when a Walmart makes a ton of profit, where exactly does the labor for that profit come from and how is it profitable?

I never said any of that. I said So you think financial markets are a pyramid scheme? Ok, I disagree with you but...

I thought your point was that these investments aren't worth it.

If you aren't even a millionaire, what are you doing with your life?

Damn_Underscore posted...

I never said any of that. I said So you think financial markets are a pyramid scheme? Ok, I disagree with you but...

I thought your point was that these investments aren't worth it.

Then you agree that capitalism necessitates an exploited worker class?
yes or no ??

darkphoenix181 posted...

Then you agree that capitalism necessitates an exploited worker class?
yes or no ??

No, because there are plenty of businesses, no matter which type of business you're looking for, that treat their workers fine. If that is a concern to you you don't have to shop at Walmart or Amazon, etc. And in the near future we have the strong possibility of workers that are typically treated poorly (such as retail workers and restaurant workers) being replaced by AI.

Now if you are implying that capitalism is inherently evil or a failed system and we must abandon it, I'm going to respond with a hearty lolno

Damn_Underscore posted...

No, because there are plenty of businesses, no matter which type of business you're looking for, that treat their workers fine. If that is a concern to you you don't have to shop at Walmart or Amazon, etc. And in the near future we have the strong possibility of workers that are typically treated poorly (such as retail workers and restaurant workers) being replaced by AI.

it's not a question of whether or not they treat their workers "fine" -- the workers are still being exploited regardless

how many of these exact same topics are there going to be?

averagejoel posted...

it's not a question of whether or not they treat their workers "fine" -- the workers are still being exploited regardless

What will you satisfy you then?

If the workers owned all the means of production and there was no corruption whatsoever, people would still have to do backbreaking and thankless work. If you are wondering how I sleep at night knowing of the exploited workers, it's because I have my own problems to worry about in this world and I am only trying to do the best with what is given to me. Not being perfect is not a reason to abolish capitalism. And Nordic countries seem to have figured out how to run a happy capitalist society, no?

Damn_Underscore posted...

What will you satisfy you then?

that's an entirely separate conversation. at the moment, I'm describing things as they are; not proposing alternatives

please do not mistake it for a moral judgement

People are just dumb and hate those who experience success.

Damn_Underscore posted...

No, because there are plenty of businesses, no matter which type of business you're looking for, that treat their workers fine.

That's not the point.

A business could treat you extremely well, but it's still exploitation since there's a fundamental imbalance of power between employer and employee that causes employees to take deals they would otherwise not accept.

Literally, a business would not pay you to work if you weren't making them significantly more money than they pay you.

Well, ok then.

I said before that as long as the economy doesn't collapse, then financial markets will remain as the easiest and most consistent way to make a large amount of money. And I stand by that. Even with the recent worker's movements that have happened in the US, my view is either there will be a mass replacement of workers with AI as soon as possible or the public companies like Walmart will be able to survive stricter labor laws and will continue to be be solid investment options.

Average AOC simp

Damn_Underscore posted...

No, because there are plenty of businesses, no matter which type of business you're looking for, that treat their workers fine. If that is a concern to you you don't have to shop at Walmart or Amazon, etc. And in the near future we have the strong possibility of workers that are typically treated poorly (such as retail workers and restaurant workers) being replaced by AI.

Now if you are implying that capitalism is inherently evil or a failed system and we must abandon it, I'm going to respond with a hearty lolno

Exploitation is not about how you TREAT workers, it is about how much they are paid in relation to the profits that you obtain from said labor.
Walmart is extremely profitable.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's not the point.

A business could treat you extremely well, but it's still exploitation since there's a fundamental imbalance of power between employer and employee that causes employees to take deals they would otherwise not accept.

Literally, a business would not pay you to work if you weren't making them significantly more money than they pay you.

lol the fucking arrogance of this
"You only THINK youre happy but youre too stupid to ever identify mutually beneficial working conditions"

If i would have bren willing to pay $10k to fix my toilet but a plumber only charged me $200, did i just exploit that plumber?

g980 posted...

If i would have bren willing to pay $10k to fix my toilet but a plumber only charged me $200, did i just exploit that plumber?

Do you pay millions of dollars to prevent plumbers from unionizing every year like Walmart does with its workforce?

>spends all day defending billionaires on the internet
>makes $35k

i shiggy diggy

g980 posted...

lol the fucking arrogance of this
"You only THINK youre happy but youre too stupid to ever identify mutually beneficial working conditions"

I didn't mention anything about happiness, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing that up when it's irrelevant. I'm very happy with where I currently work and I think they're a far better employer than most. But I'm also aware that my actual value exceeds what they're willing to pay me and that's out of necessity due to how our economy is structured. It's the same reason why you shouldn't hesitate to chase the bag, no matter how good your employer has been to you.

Nobody said you should feel stupid for being happy at a job you like.

g980 posted...

If i would have bren willing to pay $10k to fix my toilet but a plumber only charged me $200, did i just exploit that plumber?

We're not talking about what you're "willing" to pay. We're talking objectively about the amount of money a worker makes their company vs the amount that they get paid from said company. We're also talking about the amount of leverage an individual employee holds versus the amount of leverage a multimillion/billion dollar company holds.

Try again.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/5/AAL8Z2AACza5.jpg

@g980

WingsOfGood posted...

Billionaires have too much money. No one should have that much.

According to who

WorsCaseOntario posted...

According to who

People who don't foolishly think they can be like them one day.