Current Events > Before John Wick, there was Wanted. The most underrated action movie in history

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MrKapowski
12/29/21 2:36:08 PM
#51:


FortuneCookie posted...
If you can't see what's wrong with the sidekick solving everything and defeating the hero in 3 out of 3 contests, I can't explain it to you. The movie would've been better off with Angelina Jolie as the star. Make McAvoy the sidekick and you have a much stronger movie.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/5/AASSvUAACwH9.jpg

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Kitt
12/29/21 3:13:00 PM
#52:


There's nothing wrong with having a "sidekick" being more competent than the main character as long as it's executed well (even though, James McAvoy's character is more of the protagonist-sidekick in this case).
Another example I think of off the top of my head is Big Trouble in Little China. Kurt Russell was the main character, but Dennis Dunn was the actual badass between the two of them doing most of the work.

That entire concept is a trope in and of itself:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupportingProtagonist

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FortuneCookie
12/29/21 3:23:23 PM
#53:


The whole point of Big Trouble in Little China is that Jack Burton didn't realize he was the sidekick. It's a comedy.

And even the studio didn't get the joke. That's why they mandated that intro stressing his contributions. They thought he was legitimately supposed to be the bad ass hero.
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Kitt
12/29/21 3:29:55 PM
#54:


FortuneCookie posted...
The whole point of Big Trouble in Little China is that Jack Burton didn't realize he was the sidekick. It's a comedy.

And even the studio didn't get the joke. That's why they mandated that intro stressing his contributions. They thought he was legitimately supposed to be the bad ass hero.
That doesn't change the fact that the movie played the trope completely straight. Comedy or not. It's not even that weird of a concept and lots of stories utilize it.

Like, did you have an issue with Hit-Girl in Kick-Ass too?

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FortuneCookie
12/29/21 3:31:08 PM
#55:


The movie didn't play it straight. Jack Burton fired a gun into the air and knocked himself out when a piece of the roof fell on him. That's comedy.

And I never saw Kick-Ass. If it's on any streaming service that I have access to, I should probably rectify that. <_<
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Kitt
12/29/21 3:33:49 PM
#56:


FortuneCookie posted...
The movie didn't play it straight. Jack Burton fired a gun into the air and knocked himself out when a piece of the roof fell on him. That's comedy.
Yes it did. Sure they play around with it, but it being a comedy doesn't somehow negate it the fact they enforced the very trope to a T. Even if it's part of the joke.

And I never saw Kick-Ass. If it's on any streaming service that I have access to, I should probably rectify that. <_<
Funny enough, it's another Mark Millar property where the movie version is way better than the source material.

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FortuneCookie
12/29/21 3:36:22 PM
#57:


Kitt posted...
Even if it's part of the joke.

Key details.

If they decided at the last moment that the movie wasn't going to be a comedy and Jack was still going to spend half the climax knocked out or trapped beneath a heavier opponent, it probably wouldn't have worked as well as it did.
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FortuneCookie
12/29/21 3:37:34 PM
#58:


And Wanted isn't a bad movie.

It just doesn't reach its fullest potential. The weak protagonist / strong supporting character works to the movie's detriment. Had Angelina Jolie been the protagonist, or had James McAvoy's character made a better account of himself, I think far more people would be talking about it.
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Kitt
12/29/21 3:47:46 PM
#59:


FortuneCookie posted...
Key details.

If they decided at the last moment that the movie wasn't going to be a comedy and Jack was still going to spend half the climax knocked out or trapped beneath a heavier opponent, it probably wouldn't have worked as well as it did.
If anything, it being a comedy complimented it. Which doesn't change the fact that BTiLC is a perfect example of this.
And the aforementioned Hit-Girl whose major role as the deuteragonist in that movie is being everything that the main character wishes he was.

FortuneCookie posted...
And Wanted isn't a bad movie.

It just doesn't reach its fullest potential. The weak protagonist / strong supporting character works to the movie's detriment. Had Angelina Jolie been the protagonist, or had James McAvoy's character made a better account of himself, I think far more people would be talking about it.
I don't think Wanted is a bad movie, but I certainly don't love it or anything either. Of the issues I had with movie, the way they handled the two lead's roles wasn't really one of them.

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FortuneCookie
12/29/21 3:58:33 PM
#60:


The climax is a bigger problem than the win/loss record. It's true that the hero looks a little wimpy because of it, but

you have Angelina's character shooting McAvoy's character and wounding him. She has that "I'm the bad guy?" moment. Then she takes herself and the other assassins out. Afterward, McAvoy picks himself up to find Morgan Freeman has escaped. We get a closing narration and Freeman is assassinated in an anticlimax.

The star of the movie isn't really a factor. If he had a big final showdown with Morgan Freeman, the ball would have been back in his court. Instead, his victory is a footnote to Jolie's victory/sacrifice. That scenario would have worked far better with her as the star of the movie and him as the apprentice/narrator.

Even if you like the movie, it ends on a forgettable note for our young antihero.

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KCJ5062
12/29/21 4:43:28 PM
#61:


Seaman_Prime posted...
CE would love Wanted, Chris Pratt gets the shit slapped out of him with a keyboard

When I saw Wanted in theaters, I had no idea who Pratt was at the time. Apparently it wasn't until afterwards when he became more well known.

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Glob
12/29/21 4:44:38 PM
#62:


DeadBankerDream posted...
I didn't like it very much.

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Wutobliteration
12/29/21 10:23:25 PM
#63:


FortuneCookie posted...
The climax is a bigger problem than the win/loss record. It's true that the hero looks a little wimpy because of it, but

you have Angelina's character shooting McAvoy's character and wounding him. She has that "I'm the bad guy?" moment. Then she takes herself and the other assassins out. Afterward, McAvoy picks himself up to find Morgan Freeman has escaped. We get a closing narration and Freeman is assassinated in an anticlimax.

The star of the movie isn't really a factor. If he had a big final showdown with Morgan Freeman, the ball would have been back in his court. Instead, his victory is a footnote to Jolie's victory/sacrifice. That scenario would have worked far better with her as the star of the movie and him as the apprentice/narrator.

Even if you like the movie, it ends on a forgettable note for our young antihero.

imagine whining about a movie simply by counting wins-losses like some WWE match. Because your dear MC didnt get to have a wonderful cliche final punch-kick battle with the baddie.

lol the fact that this movie strayed from an expected MC trope is exactly what makes it so good. We need more weak ass realistic MCs out there. Not over-dominating overpowered MCs. Go watch your shounen anime for that crap
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FortuneCookie
12/30/21 1:20:24 AM
#64:


I would agree with you that more realistic protagonists would be refreshing. But this is a movie where people leap from rooftops and cause bullets to curve at impossible angles.

The film's problems stem from the way that Angelina Jolie's character was set up to overshadow the protagonist. She gets the climactic showdown, she gets the action that matters, she gets the emotional content, and gets the winning record against James McAvoy's character. This would be great if she were the star instead of him. She's not. Her character comes into the story late. The story doesn't follow her. She's a supporting character through and through. When it comes time for those moments where the protagonist typically gets a chance to prove himself or herself, the film gives them to a character who was never intended to be the star. That is a flaw in the film's story structure.

And it's not like the movie lacks a fight scene. The main character has that knife fight with the guy who helped train him. The action in that scene is solid. The problem is that the opponent is nobody in terms of the story. It's not an emotional payoff or meaningful conflict to see our protagonist fight Trainer #2.

It's not whining to critique a story. The story has structural flaws. That's why I got it out of a $5 DVD bargain bin at Wal*Mart in 2009.
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Wutobliteration
12/30/21 1:36:52 AM
#65:


FortuneCookie posted...
I would agree with you that more realistic protagonists would be refreshing. But this is a movie where people leap from rooftops and cause bullets to curve at impossible angles.

The film's problems stem from the way that Angelina Jolie's character was set up to overshadow the protagonist. She gets the climactic showdown, she gets the action that matters, she gets the emotional content, and gets the winning record against James McAvoy's character. This would be great if she were the star instead of him. She's not. Her character comes into the story late. The story doesn't follow her. She's a supporting character through and through. When it comes time for those moments where the protagonist typically gets a chance to prove himself or herself, the film gives them to a character who was never intended to be the star. That is a flaw in the film's story structure.

And it's not like the movie lacks a fight scene. The main character has that knife fight with the guy who helped train him. The action in that scene is solid. The problem is that the opponent is nobody in terms of the story. It's not an emotional payoff or meaningful conflict to see our protagonist fight Trainer #2.

It's not whining to critique a story. The story has structural flaws. That's why I got it out of a $5 DVD bargain bin at Wal*Mart in 2009.

again lol
what the hell is up with you judging based on who fights who. it's really childish.

also do you have the same issue with Kickass then (assuming you watched that movie but seems like you didnt)
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InfinityMonster
12/30/21 1:38:30 AM
#66:


https://youtu.be/zIoqlLU4E74&t=76s

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Scotty_Rogers
12/30/21 1:40:31 AM
#67:


No doubt an incel made Wanted. It's based on a comic book ffs

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Gobstoppers12
12/30/21 1:45:58 AM
#68:


I watched the video in the OP, and...the explosions were pretty cool, I guess? But most of the action isn't even close to John Wick's level. There's a ton of random cuts, a lot of "main character shooting guns toward the camera, then shots of random goons dying with blood mist popping off their heads"

It was pretty underwhelming. I like shots with high clarity and readability. I want to see the gun fire and the guy get hit within the same cut. That's good action to me. Slow motion helps, but only if it enhances the detail.

Honestly, a lot of the video you posted is just McAvoy running and flailing his arms around while making muzzle flashes for people to react to. Or maybe they're CGI muzzle flashes; can't really tell, but it's not that amazing to watch.

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RobertFripp
12/30/21 1:50:45 AM
#69:


Raikuro posted...
It basically launched James McAvoy's career, and probably helped get Kick Ass made

yeah this isnt even remotely accurate

@Raikuro

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Background_Guy
12/30/21 1:59:11 AM
#70:


Scotty_Rogers posted...
No doubt an incel made Wanted. It's based on a comic book ffs
Millar might be an incel.
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Scotty_Rogers
12/30/21 2:07:10 AM
#71:


Background_Guy posted...
Millar might be an incel.

Frank? I wouldn't be surprised lol

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Wutobliteration
12/30/21 7:13:05 AM
#72:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
I watched the video in the OP, and...the explosions were pretty cool, I guess? But most of the action isn't even close to John Wick's level. There's a ton of random cuts, a lot of "main character shooting guns toward the camera, then shots of random goons dying with blood mist popping off their heads"

It was pretty underwhelming. I like shots with high clarity and readability. I want to see the gun fire and the guy get hit within the same cut. That's good action to me. Slow motion helps, but only if it enhances the detail.

Honestly, a lot of the video you posted is just McAvoy running and flailing his arms around while making muzzle flashes for people to react to. Or maybe they're CGI muzzle flashes; can't really tell, but it's not that amazing to watch.

Watch the full movie. You're getting the wrong idea.

Also this is by all means meant to be a fantasy movie, not a realistic one. And that's a good thing but it does so well in indeed, being unrealistic and high octane.

As much as the action goes, I dont really like John Wick because it's the movie producers dont know what the f*** they want it to be. Is it realistic? NO. They just want you to think it is. Action is cool but seriously, just choose one. Action or realism. You cant have both and I hate movies that try to pretend like they are. John Wick is the sort of movie caught in between both and leans toward tossing all logic out of the window.

You have John Wick reloading empty guns for no reason, shooting silencers that are somehow actually...silent, blasting guns full-auto, tackling down opponents who are somehow all so eager to quickly appear in the line of fire even after seeing the person in front of them getting shot. Nobody in real life is so dumb to charge through a doorway like that or go around a corner not expecting to get stabbed. Nothing the hell makes sense in John Wick. It's what I call "pathetic fake realism".
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tremain07
12/30/21 7:20:27 AM
#73:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/1/AAPa_qAAB1aF.png

Better gun slinger than the protagonist of wanted. She doesn't even need to aim directly at you to hit you.

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Tyranthraxus
12/30/21 7:32:43 AM
#74:


Angelina Jolie isn't his side kick. She's a supporting actress from a cinematography perspective but she's not a side kick.

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Raikuro
12/30/21 8:44:35 AM
#75:


RobertFripp posted...
yeah this isnt even remotely accurate
Ok? If you're not going to elaborate I'll just have to assume you have terrible reading comprehension.
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Jiggy101011
12/30/21 8:52:03 AM
#76:


I wouldn't compare it to John Wick at all.

That being said, it has a naked Angelina Jolie in it and Chris Pratt gets fucked up with a keyboard. 2 things CE should love.

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Kitt
12/30/21 8:58:05 AM
#77:


Raikuro posted...
Ok? If you're not going to elaborate I'll just have to assume you have terrible reading comprehension.
I'd say Atonement and The Last King of Scotland were the movies that really launched his career. But Wanted definitely helped make him into an action star.

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Raikuro
12/30/21 9:12:46 AM
#78:


Kitt posted...
I'd say Atonement and The Last King of Scotland were the movies that really launched his career. But Wanted definitely helped make him into an action star.
Yeah, good thing I didn't say Wanted was literally the first movie he was noteworthy in. Before Wanted he was just that guy in the Forrest Whittaker and Keira Knightley movies.
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Background_Guy
12/30/21 9:51:35 AM
#79:


Scotty_Rogers posted...
Frank? I wouldn't be surprised lol
Frank, Mark, either
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Gobstoppers12
12/30/21 10:14:30 AM
#80:


Wutobliteration posted...
Nothing the hell makes sense in John Wick. It's what I call "pathetic fake realism".
Ohhhh... now I see what this topic is

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DrizztLink
12/30/21 10:17:32 AM
#81:


Raikuro posted...
Yeah, good thing I didn't say Wanted was literally the first movie he was noteworthy in. Before Wanted he was just that guy in the Forrest Whittaker and Keira Knightley movies.
You're talking to two different people, my dude.

Don't let some other shitposter get you riled up then take it out on Kitt.

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Robot2600
12/30/21 10:26:05 AM
#82:


better watch out it's the LOOOOOOOM of Destiny!

your fate is LOOOOOMING over you!

ooooooo the SPOOOOOPY LOOOOM said your name!

better shoot everyone and definitely don't think about anything

the LOOM of DOOM! Doomloom.

Doomloom.

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FortuneCookie
12/30/21 10:50:37 AM
#83:


Wutobliteration posted...
again lol
what the hell is up with you judging based on who fights who. it's really childish.

You're removing it from its context. You're trying to make it out to be me saying that it's not a good movie because it didn't end with a pro wrestling match. I'm saying the film has flaws with regards to how stories of this nature are told.

The film has plenty of action. But it doesn't play its cards right. If Angelina Jolie had been the star of the movie, the last ten to fifteen minutes of the film could have played out the same way and everything would have been fine. Since James McAvoy was the star, it's a bit like having Superman fly in and save the day to end a Batman movie.

It's not about the film lacking action. It's about audience expectations. The film doesn't subvert them in a particularly clever way. It just hands the spotlight to a supporting character and willingly allows her to overshadow the protagonist.

It's not a bad movie, but it has untapped potential.

also do you have the same issue with Kickass then (assuming you watched that movie but seems like you didnt)

I can't comment. I haven't seen it.
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ffmasterjose
12/30/21 10:56:13 AM
#84:


I haven't seen it since I watched it in theaters but I remember liking it!

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KCJ5062
12/30/21 10:58:15 AM
#85:


Jiggy101011 posted...
I wouldn't compare it to John Wick at all.

That being said, it has a naked Angelina Jolie in it and Chris Pratt gets fucked up with a keyboard. 2 things CE should love.

Star-Lord getting owned by Professor X.

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