Board 8 > Finally beat FFVII Remake (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Someone posted it in my rank-anything-FF topic, and I had to veto it because it wasn't out on Steam yet... and then it released on Epic. So, whoever you were, here are my thoughts:

• The idea of magical time ghosts who look exactly like dementors from Harry Potter who want to keep the timeline's continuity intact by doing things like stopping Hojo from spoiling late game twists and resurrecting Barret when he dies and the heroes having to defeat them so the remake can do new things is conceptually the most hilarious thing ever. Same with the penultimate boss being time ghosts summoning Cloud, Tifa, and Barret in time ghost form from the original game to fight the modern versions.
• It's really bizarre to me how the game emphasizes how heroic the heroes are to 'fight destiny' and all that, and how they're going to do a better job this time around by not letting anyone die. The game goes out of its way to show that no one dies when the plate drops, Biggs and Jessie survive, and Wedge probably survives. The only named character in the whole game who dies is President Shinra. It's such a weird decision, people being able to just die out of nowhere was part of what made the original FFVII what it was. More named characters die in that game than like the rest of the series combined. That's probably not true, but whatever.
• I am convinced that people only like the Turks and Rufus because they look cool. If Rufus looked like an actual trust fund billionaire kid would look, like a pudgy jackass in blue jeans and a polo shirt, he would have no following. I can't help but notice how the Turks no longer killed any innocent civilians, and Rufus no longer says he plans to be evil when he takes over the company. I assume this is to make their inevitable face turn make more sense.
• I thought the gameplay was very good. It's the best possible mixture of classic ATB with modern action games. A+ job there. I know people said the PC port has problems, but I only noticed a few framerate drops occasionally, and some button prompts that still said triangle instead of E.
• This is not a remake, it's a sequel. I can't imagine how this game must read if you haven't played the original. I have played the original, and there were things that still confused me. Characters act like the audience has been introduced to information already, like Sephiroth just showing up with no introduction, Cloud talking about how evil Hojo is long before Hojo is introduced, Palmer just walking into frame like we already know who this jackass is, and everyone calling Red XIII "Red" despite no one establishing that that should be his nickname. Then Zack just shows up at the end, and I have no idea what a new player would make of this garbled nonsense.
• Speaking of Red, why wasn't he playable? Such a bizarre decision. He only joins you as a guest party member when your party has two people, so there's no reason for him to not be playable.
• Speaking of Zack, I had almost no idea what was happening at the end there. He goes back to Midgar, but it's another timeline? But then in the DLC, it looks like it's the remake timeline after all?
• I was shocked how many things from the original that I thought would be cut showed up. The crossdressing sequence, the squatting minigame, and lots of weird pointless things like the computer that makes a gatling gun shoot you for no reason. Although, it can't be emphasized enough how much padding this game has. I guess that's how you stretch a 5 hour game into a 30 hour game, but sequences that took one minute in the original now take twenty minutes or more. I've never seen a game with more padding than this.
• The Yuffie DLC's final boss is maybe the worst thing I've ever seen in any of these games. It's shockingly terrible. I can tell he's from some awful FFVII spinoff I haven't played, Dirge of Cerberus or whatever, because he shows up with no introduction like you're supposed to already know him. He's what I'm going to call both too edgy to be funny and a terribly-designed final boss. And why was her ally not playable? Unlike Red, he even has stats and abilities, so I have zero idea why he's not selectable.
• Best moment of the game was Cait Sith showing up, falling to his knees, and pounding his fists on the ground. Again, I have no idea what someone new to the series, who thought this was a remake and not a sequel, would think. It's been like twenty years, and I still don't know how much control Reeve actually has over Cait Sith.

Wall Market the best

Plate collapse the worst

Non playable characters are intentional so you focus more on the playable ones I assume.

And yeah, neutering the death factor was not the greatest choice.

Anagram posted...

Speaking of Red, why wasn't he playable? Such a bizarre decision. He only joins you as a guest party member when your party has two people, so there's no reason for him to not be playable.

I mean he most likely was not done as a full party member by the time game originally released, but there was enough of him to make a semi-scripted AI party member and trick people into thinking he could be.

Forgot to mention how incomplete the game feels in some ways. Two limit breaks and six weapons per character, where I was just using random weapons instead of their last weapons, and like four summons. Very odd.

Anagram posted...

Same with the penultimate boss being time ghosts summoning Cloud, Tifa, and Barret in time ghost form from the original game to fight the modern versions.

You talking about the three whispers towards the end? Rubrim, Croceo, and Viridi? Because if so that's not what they are.

Murphiroth posted...

You talking about the three whispers towards the end? Rubrim, Croceo, and Viridi? Because if so that's not what they are.

It's three time ghosts with a sword, fists, and gun arm, and the assess says they came to defend their original timeline.

Anagram posted...

It's three time ghosts with a sword, fists, and gun arm, and the assess says they came to defend their original timeline.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kadaj
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Loz
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Yazoo

Anagram posted...

It's three time ghosts with a sword, fists, and gun arm, and the assess says they came to defend their original timeline.

That is one theory but the FF7R Ultimania implies that they're Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo from Advent Children. It outright states that the Whispers fight like them and the weapon types do match up. It's also in line with how they're working in things from the every spinoff.

That Ultimania has some wild stuff in it, like how there's 4 different forms of Sephiroth in FF7R.

skullbone posted...

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kadaj
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Loz
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Yazoo

Murphiroth posted...

That is one theory but the FF7R Ultimania implies that they're Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo from Advent Children. It outright states that the Whispers fight like them and the weapon types do match up. It's also in line with how they're working in things from the every spinoff.

That Ultimania has some wild stuff in it, like how there's 4 different forms of Sephiroth in FF7R.

That's much less interesting than my interpretation, but okay, I accept being wrong. Weren't those three guys aspects of Sephiroth or something? Why are they trying to stop Sephiroth's plan?

Not really enough information yet to answer those kinds of questions I think. Hopefully it'll be cleared up eventually but I think it's super cool that it's basically a sequel instead of just a plain remake. Time will tell if Nomura can actually make it good or if he'll go full Kingdom Hearts plot on it.

Well we can't even really say what Sephiroth's plan is. The one you fight at the end is specifically referred to as an unknown entity and they also point out in the Ultimania that he uses a pronoun in Japanese that he only used before Nibelheim.

What that means I have no idea but I don't think we can say with any certainty what that Seph's plan is.

We dont know yet if Biggs survives just because he did.. or because of timeline fuckery
We know even less about Jessie's fate
And Wedge.. well who knows

I dont mind the plate collapse allowing some survivors at least (instead of everyone just accepting their doom). Though it is convenient that all the named civilians managed to dodge it.

skullbone posted...

Not really enough information yet to answer those kinds of questions I think. Hopefully it'll be cleared up eventually but I think it's super cool that it's basically a sequel instead of just a plain remake. Time will tell if Nomura can actually make it good or if he'll go full Kingdom Hearts plot on it.

Nomura's not working on 2 iirc

Anagram posted...

This is not a remake, it's a sequel. I can't imagine how this game must read if you haven't played the original.

It feels.very natural as someone who have been steeped in ff7 culture but never played it. I know the characters and broad ideas but not the little details. I think they were targeting that exact level of ff7 knowledge.

Anagram posted...

He only joins you as a guest party member when your party has two people, so there's no reason for him to not be playable.

No, every fight after that has 4 people that they have to split between 2 halves. So it would be very complicated to include Red in there. Plus they would have to add a ton more animations and gameplay to make him really playable since he would be part of the virtual bosses too. Very logical to cut him to get the game out faster.

Mac Arrowny posted...

Nomura's not working on 2 iirc

He is but hes not working as a director anymore (they changed his title to creative director).

foolm0r0n posted...

I think they were targeting that exact level of ff7 knowledge.

Yeah, that's why it bothers me. I like FF7 way more than the culture and hype that was built around it.

htaeD posted...

We dont know yet if Biggs survives just because he did.. or because of timeline fuckery
We know even less about Jessie's fate
And Wedge.. well who knows

I dont mind the plate collapse allowing some survivors at least (instead of everyone just accepting their doom). Though it is convenient that all the named civilians managed to dodge it.

Jessie's glove and bandana are next to him on the cabinet! She's totally still alive. And they showed zero dead bodies of even nameless civilians. Heidegger even says something like "too bad our plan to kill everyone failed, now we can't blame Avalanche."

foolm0r0n posted...

It feels.very natural as someone who have been steeped in ff7 culture but never played it. I know the characters and broad ideas but not the little details. I think they were targeting that exact level of ff7 knowledge.

Really? I'll accept that, it just felt surreal to me at times.

foolm0r0n posted...

No, every fight after that has 4 people that they have to split between 2 halves. So it would be very complicated to include Red in there. Plus they would have to add a ton more animations and gameplay to make him really playable since he would be part of the virtual bosses too. Very logical to cut him to get the game out faster.

I suppose I can accept this, though it doesn't explain Solon.

My wife watched me play Remake with zero knowledge of FFVII whatsoever and enjoyed it. We're having two totally different experiences with the story, but that's fine.

pjbasis posted...

Yeah, that's why it bothers me. I like FF7 way more than the culture and hype that was built around it.

Well afaik ff7 still exists!

That's true, very perceptive