Current Events > Does CE have a college degree?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Then why are you on YouTube?

Derwood posted...

Then why are you on YouTube?

I learned from Youtube years before I ever worked at this company. It's also still a valid tool for learning things and applying said knowledge to the real world.

I've definitely worked at companies that didn't want to pay to train anyone on anything outside of a few basics of how to do the job. The company I currently work for isn't one of those, though.

Also, when a company pays for training, those training courses are often for specific subjects. Youtube is a magnificent tool for learning things in the real world when learning credits expire and training courses are over. It's also a magnificent source of education if you're going for certifications.

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CableZL posted...

I'm not sure what your deal is, but you seem to have some weird desire to make things up and attribute those claims to me.

I never refuted your points about Elon Musk's claims expected goals falling flat because I agree with them.

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And then the tone changes to "we're all human we make mistakes and this thing that was promised yearly that ends up not happening yearly isn't a failure leave Elon alone" after this novel where I didn't even bother to list 2015 and 2020


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Bonus confusion from plain English words by the walking dictionary

For those who don't know, pedestrian involvement would be the morons you see in literally every city ignoring traffic rules. Like that time I almost creamed some drunk idiot who walked in front of my car literally the first time I drove in DC

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

I remember you explaining some of his failures in response to that. What were my responses to you explaining those failures?

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

And then the tone changes to "we're all human we make mistakes and this thing that was promised yearly that ends up not happening yearly isn't a failure leave Elon alone" after this novel where I didn't even bother to list 2015 and 2020

"You don't know what you're talking about"
*shows I know what I'm talking about*
"Wow I agree I never doubted you"

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

"You don't know what you're talking about"
*shows I know what I'm talking about*
"Wow I agree I never doubted you"

You're conflating different things here. I was sarcastically responding to you saying Elon Musk "has no idea what he's talking about" when he clearly does have knowledge in those areas. I openly admit I wasn't thinking about Elon Musk's failed claims in the moment I said that. However, your claim:

MacadamianNut3 posted...

Tbh this is explaining a lot of the blind faith in Elon's fully autonomous cars happening anytime soon

Where in that does it suggest that I think fully autonomous cars are happening any time soon?

Especially given the recent topics I've made where I've directly stated that autonomous cars aren't happening any time soon in a number of ways?

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Start your own Elon Musk slap fight thread

Derwood posted...

Start your own Elon Musk slap fight thread

How bout I don't but say I did

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I mean we can argue how Elon has no critical thinking skills seeing as he thought it was a smart idea to call a person saving children a "pedophile".

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

Yes, in this post, we're talking about the rollout for the FSD beta being way behind schedule. I refrenced Elon Musks words.

And it's still correct that FSD beta isn't a failure just because there have been delays in the rollout.

As I stated there, if anything that didn't go exactly according to plan was considered a failure and tossed by the wayside, our society would indeed be in shambles. We, as a society, fail at most things we try the first time. That doesn't mean it's a failure just because it didn't go according to plan.

That still doesn't suggest that I think fully autonomous cars are coming any time soon like you were claiming.

Even when the FSD beta is in a state where it's rolled out to the entire fleet, the cars still won't be fully autonomous.

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Kastrada posted...

I mean we can argue how Elon has no critical thinking skills seeing as he thought it was a smart idea to call a person saving children a "pedophile".

Definitely a dumb move.

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Now, if you're using those post to say something along the lines of me being an idiot to sarcastically ask for examples of Elon Musk's failed claims when he clearly had and has many failed claims, I'd accept that.

Nowhere in that do I ever suggest that we're close to fully autonomous cars, though. I was responding to you calling the FSD beta a failure just because it didn't roll out exactly on schedule.

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CableZL posted...

That still doesn't suggest that I think fully autonomous cars are coming any time soon like you were claiming.

So what's the point of arguing the 2030 point and claiming that the issue is mainly regulatory and not software (which is still lol btw)

https://electrek.co/2021/12/04/tesla-pushes-full-self-driving-beta-update-improved-object-detection/
Since the responsibility lies with the driver and not Teslas system, it is still considered a level 2 driver-assist system despite its name. It has been sort of a two steps forward, one step back type of program as some updates have seen regressions in terms of the driving capabilities.

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CableZL posted...

Now, if you're using those post to say something along the lines of me being an idiot

post 205 took care of that

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

So what's the point of arguing the 2030 point and claiming that the issue is mainly regulatory and not software (which is still lol btw)

In February of 2021, they were already testing the FSD beta with a very limited set of cars and had been doing so since October 27, 2020. It's safe to say that even with multiple updated versions being released since then, they would be facing a regulatory firestorm if they pushed it out to the entire fleet.

https://insideevs.com/news/452048/tesla-full-self-driving-constant-updates-fewer-interventions/

Tesla launched the FSD Beta tech on October 27, 2020. It seems initially it just went to a few Tesla owners. However, over time, the number of Tesla drivers testing the technology has grown. Musk says the most recent update should result in about one-third fewer interventions. However, this update focused on "silly bugs." We're not sure exactly how Tesla is getting all the data and what decisions it is making with regard to updates. We know the drivers are testing situations and providing feedback. In addition, data from the cars is constantly being uploaded for Tesla's use.

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

post 205 took care of that

Ah yes, remove the context because you can't make an actual substantive point. Good job.

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So again... where did I suggest that Elon Musk, or anyone for that matter, was close to making a fully autonomous car?

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CableZL posted...

Ah yes, remove the context because you can't make an actual substantive point. Good job.

Yeah it's hard to make a point if the other party is going with with revisionist bullshit and acting dense

How much more context do you need for a screenshot where you claim I don't know some term and I explain the term in the same post as the screenshot? I can post the fucking post itself if you want that says the exact same thing but longer

kinda pathetic ngl


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MacadamianNut3 posted...

Yeah it's hard to make a point if the other party is going with with revisionist bulls*** and acting dense

How much more context do you need for a screenshot where you claim I don't know some term and I explain the term in the same post as the screenshot? I can post the f***ing post itself if you want that says the exact same thing but longer

kinda pathetic ngl

So again. Your claim was that I held some belief or made a statement or suggestion that Elon Musk was close to having a fully autonomous car.

You've only posted screenshots of me not saying or suggesting anything like that. Try to keep up. It's your claim. Prove it.

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So, college, amirite?

Derwood posted...

So, college, amirite?

Any response to my latest post in that regard?

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CableZL posted...

Any response to my latest post in that regard?

I'm just trying to get the thread back on track since the two of you are slap fighting about a completely unrelated topic

Derwood posted...

I'm just trying to get the thread back on track since the two of you are slap fighting about a completely unrelated topic

So again, any response to my most recent post on the subject of the discussion? Post 202.


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CableZL posted...

So again. Your claim was that I held some belief or made a statement or suggestion that Elon Musk was close to having a fully autonomous car.

You've only posted screenshots of me not saying or suggesting anything like that. Try to keep up. It's your claim. Prove it.

Already did when discussing Tesla's failures and then you went with "lol that was a sarcastic response" and yet still have an issue with me saying in 2030 it's going to be the same shit no matter how much what isn't FSD but still named FSD continues to be alpha tests named beta tests.

So yeah just like that old topic your gimmick is getting old fast. A very convenient mix of iwasonlypretending.jpg and "doesn't count if I don't explicitly say it even if I challenge you at every point also you're not making any points that I'm challenging'

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CableZL posted...

So again, any response to my most recent post on the subject of the discussion? Post 202.

I have no doubt you've had a lot of training. Training and college eduction are not the same thing.

MacadamianNut3 posted...

Already did when discussing Tesla's failures and then you went with "lol that was a sarcastic response" and yet still have an issue with me saying in 2030 it's going to be the same s*** no matter how much FSD but not named FSD continues to be alpha tests named beta tests.

So yeah just like that old topic your gimmick is getting old fast. A very convenient mix of iwasonlypretending.jpg and "doesn't count if I don't explicitly say it even if I challenge you at every point also you're not making any points that I'm challenging'

No, you haven't. Like I suspected, you're repeatedly trying to conflate different points.

The sarcastic response was in response to you claiming Elon Musk has no idea what he's talking about on the subject of AI and robotics. He has, at the very least, talked in some detail on the subjects, so I would say he has some level of knowledge.

Does he embellish things way too much? Yes
Should he talk/tweet less in general? Yes
Have many of his claims of timelines fell by the wayside? Yes
Has he made false statements that he has had to completely walk back? Yes.

And you said "FSD beta is failure" just because it isn't rolling out anywhere near the timeline Elon Musk quoted. This happens with many things, Elon Musk or no. It's a hard problem to solve and Elon Musk has not lived up to promised timelines at all. Sure.

Again, a project is not considered a failure just because it's delayed. The vast majority, if not all, of humanity's advances in technologies would be considered a failure by that standard.

And yet again: Your claim was that I held some belief and/or made some suggestion or statement that Elon Musk was close to having a fully autonomous car. The FSD beta as it was in October of 2020 when it first started rolling out was not considered anything close to a fully autonomous system. Many versions later, I believe they're starting to roll out version 10.6, it's still not considered anything close to a fully autonomous system.

I never stated or suggested such a thing, as I've said repeatedly.

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Derwood posted...

I have no doubt you've had a lot of training. Training and college eduction are not the same thing.

I agree, but one can substitute training for a college education in many fields, which has been my point this whole topic.

It's especially the case in many IT fields. Technology is always advancing, so if you're in a specialized position like system admin, network engineer, security architect, etc., you have to constantly be keeping your knowledge up to date in order to keep up.

A network engineering degree from 1985 is not worth much today because many network standards from 1985 are dead. Many new networking standards have been created since then.

Cisco exams are updated to current technology every few years and you have to renew your certs periodically in order to continue to claim to be Cisco certified.

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CableZL posted... And yet again: Your claim was that I held some belief and/or made some suggestion or statement that Elon Musk was close to having a fully autonomous car. The FSD beta as it was in October of 2020 when it first started rolling out was not considered anything close to a fully autonomous system. Many versions later, I believe they're starting to roll out version 10.6, it's still not considered anything close to a fully autonomous system.

And the point is it's going to be the same thing 10 years from now because while Elon may have an asston of money, there has been even more money thrown at the problem for decades by multiple entities

And to argue this in any way with this daydreamer crap about nothing ever succeeding without failure, which is irrelevant to something that has repeatedly failed with a lot of known problems that still need to be addressed on top of unknown problems when it gets to the point of actual testing and not glorified cruise control, is implying that you think it's going to happen anytime soon. Whole purpose of FSD is stated on Tesla's website

The currently enabled Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. Full autonomy will be dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions.

https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot

That's the goal of FSD, full autonomy. Not driver assistance or summoning a car in a parking lot fluff which is what it's stuck in now and will be stuck in for a long time. Not happening anytime soon. If you agree it's not going to happen anytime soon, what are you even saying other than daydreamer fluff of one day.

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Nah I dropped out of college like a loser

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

And the point is it's going to be the same thing 10 years from now because while Elon may have an asston of money, there has been even more money thrown at the problem for decades by multiple entities

And to argue this in any way with this daydreamer crap about nothing ever succeeding without failure, which is irrelevant to something that has repeatedly failed with a lot of known problems that still need to be addressed on top of unknown problems when it gets to the point of actual testing and not glorified cruise control, is implying that you think it's going to happen anytime soon. Whole purpose of FSD is stated on Tesla's website

The currently enabled Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. Full autonomy will be dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions.

https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot

That's the goal of FSD, full autonomy. Not driver assistance or summoning a car in a parking lot fluff which is what it's stuck in now and will be stuck in for a long time. Not happening anytime soon. If you agree it's not going to happen anytime soon, what are you even saying other than daydreamer fluff of one day.

Ehhh, I don't think we'll be anywhere near fully autonomous vehicles 10 years from now, sure. However, assuming Tesla is still around in 10 years, I think it's safe to say that the FSD beta will be much better in 10 years than it is today. It's already a tiny bit better now than it was a couple months ago. They're releasing updates to the FSD beta every weeks or so with small improvements here and there.

That still is not a statement or implication that I think fully autonomous vehicles will happen any time soon. They're making incremental strides toward the goal even if the goal itself is far off.

I don't think we'll have fully autonomous vehicles until well after the overwhelming vast majority of vehicles have the necessary technology to act on their own as well as a neural network being developed and enforced through regulations in order to allow cars to communicate with each other so that every car is aware of an obstacle in the road or someone running into the road.

And yes, I'm aware that the goal of FSD is full autonomy. One can be aware of that fact and also understand that:

• The goal itself isn't realistically achievable any time soon
• Tesla and other manufacturers are making incremental strides toward that goal.

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IMO, it's better that companies start taking strides toward full autonomy now so that we'll have a much better product if the technology does advance enough to make it possible.

Waiting until the technology is 100% ready to start developing it would set us back further. I'd rather my car make the mistakes it's making today with FSD beta so that they can be reported and corrected as its development continues.

That way, IF we ever get to the point where we can say "Hey, the available technology today can 100% support fully autonomous driving," we aren't starting from square 1.

I don't subscribe to the line of thinking that just because something doesn't go according to plan or isn't achieving its stated goal that it's a failure and we should give up. If that was the case, then I might as well have just kept working in retail or whatever godawful general-public-facing job would be available for damn near minimum wage my whole life.

(Oh hey, how about that... bringing it back on topic)

I dropped out of college in 2004 due to major health issues and a lack of funding to continue. I'm glad I didn't just say "I should have a career going by now but I don't, so I'm just gonna stop trying" in 2007 when I would have graduated if I was able to continue.

I didn't have much of an appetite for going back to school in part because of cost and in part because I had no idea what I actually wanted to major in. My friend showing me CBT Nuggets videos was a stroke of luck that allowed me to get my career off the ground without college.

And just in case... That isn't to say that a college education is in any way worthless or worse than self study in general. It just wasn't right for me at the time for a number of reasons.

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Bachelors in English Literature, Minor in French. Some post-grad work.

Nobody ever said they should give up on autonomous vehicles. If they did I wouldn't have a job. The ultimate goal of what I was hired for (which requires a PhD btw for relevance to the topic, you'll get laughed out the door with a bachelors and definitely with a youtube education) is to toss autonomous vehicles in the field to transport and work in tandem with soldiers.

People should just really shut the hell up about making any kind of promises of it happening anytime soon only to repeatedly walk back on it. There's 30+ years of research and field testing to suggest "stfu until it actually looks like it's going to happen"

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

Nobody ever said they should give up on autonomous vehicles. If they did I wouldn't have a job

People should just really shut the hell up about making any kind of promises of it happening anytime soon only to repeatedly walk back on it. There's 30+ years of research to suggest "stfu until it actually looks like it's going to happen"

Eh, I disagree. I would still rather companies try publicly and allow the qualified public to get in on the fun if they want to. Certain safety requirements as a bare minimum, sure, but there's no reason to stop talking about it at all.

Setting false expectations is frustrating, for sure, but overall I've enjoyed my experience with autopilot. FSD beta is still rough, but it'll get better.

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I remember talking people's ears off about Cisco certifications when I was first going through them. I was studying at home. Studying at work. Posting about it on CE. Posting about it on Facebook.

I'd tell people I was taking X exam on Y date. Sometimes I would fail. It's disappointing, sure, but talking about it with other people is part of what makes it better, imo. It also invited people to hold me accountable when I would start slacking, which helped me stick to my goals.

• I passed CCENT on the 1st try
• I passed CCNA Route/Switch on the 2nd try
• I passed CCNA Securty on the 3rd god damn try. I was so frustrated. It was all because I wasn't interpreting a specific part of a simulation properly and choosing the wrong answer.
• I passed CCNP ROUTE on the 1st try.
• I passed CCNP SWITCH on the 1st try.
• I passed CCNP TSHOOT on the 2nd try, and thus earned my CCNP Route/Switch cert.

I got my CCENT, then started studying for the CCNA in September of 2013. Then GTA 5 came out and I did nothing with my free time but play that game for weeks. People would ask me about how studying is going. I was honest and said I hadn't been studying because of GTA 5. They'd give me playful jabs about slacking and all that, but it was all in good fun.

Failure is part of the game. Can't let failure keep you from talking about your goals, imo.

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CableZL posted...

I agree

I feel like that's the point where that conversation should have ended, though it should have occurred some time ago.

Can you learn stuff on YouTube? Yes and some of it is really valuable stuff too.

Is it the same as going to college? Obviously not. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Sometimes going to college is a bad idea, to be fair.

Glob posted...

I feel like that's the point where that conversation should have ended, though it should have occurred some time ago.

Can you learn stuff on YouTube? Yes and some of it is really valuable stuff too.

Is it the same as going to college? Obviously not. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Sometimes going to college is a bad idea, to be fair.

Well CE isn't exactly the peak of rational discussion that goes anywhere most times

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