Current Events > Aspergers, neurodivergency and the autistic spectrum

(+) Yeah! (+)

(Got deleted from politics so trying here)
I am really trying to form this topic to where it doesn't get modded (since every time I bring up aspergers/autism it gets modded).

I preface this by saying I am not trying to offend anybody and definitely not trying to direct hate towards those that classify themselves as "on the spectrum". I am just throwing questions out there and trying better to understand.

Is anybody else kind of annoyed about how loosely defined aspergers is? Or really I should say was because it got reclassified to "on the spectrum" of autism in 2013 in DSM-5. I am also annoyed that it is considered a "disorder" or "syndrome" and how higher functioning autistic people are considered "disabled". It honestly feels like a form of discrimination to tie these words to it.

I get that some people feel like it gives them more identity and helps explain why they may have felt different growing up but to accept it as a disability seems odd to me. The described "different" way of processing information seems to help more than hurt people a lot of the times. I understand it can make forming relationships more difficult but who up and decided how relationships should be or how many you should have?

The way it is described and diagnosed is bonkers as well. It is all based off behavior and not any physical/blood test. Why is it a "disorder" or a "syndrome" for people to behave slightly abnormal? Wouldn't it be stranger for people to be completely normal? I've met very few completely normal people in my life. I haven't been diagnosed but I am sure I have certain behaviors that would be considered "on the spectrum"; I don't consider them to be a hindrance to myself though.

And someone mentioned the last time this was posted that most psychological conditions are diagnosed by behavior. While somewhat true, there isn't another condition that has had its definition changed to such a large degree, so many times and in a very short time frame (speaking about aspergers and "higher functioning autism").

There is actual science around conditions like bipolar disorder as well. They have identified a specific dopamine transporter protein that mediates the reuptake of dopamine from the synapse. When this protein malfunctions it causes large mood swings.

Then we have the terms neurotypical and neurodivergent. Just why? What the f*** is neurotypical? Just to be average in behavior and intelligence? What is the point of grouping up people in a very loosely defined manner like this?

If you ever look up the history of the word autism you will notice it has had countless changes to it's definition throughout time. It started out being basically synonymous to "mentally challenged". It was then closely linked to schizophrenia. It has had its definition broadened over and over again until we have the current situation of many people just self-diagnosing themselves as "on the spectrum" as some kind of quirky in-fashion trait. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757918/ link to a really good article going over the history of autism)

I've been thinking about this for awhile and especially today when the topic came up. Does anyone feel the same about it being almost discriminatory towards people who just simply think and behave differently? Am I missing something on why it is so important that we classify and divide people this way?

Tldr

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Smackems posted...

Tldr

Figured. Probably more appropriate on the politics board because of this. I am just curious what other people think about the subject as not many people actually bother discussing it.

Yeah you're right it is all bullshit.

It is so they can take your rights away.

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AP3Brain posted...

Am I missing something on why it is so important that we classify and divide people this way?

People with autism have different needs than healthy functioning people.

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Xythris posted...

Why did they delete it on the politics board?

Off topic because it wasn't specifically about government politics. I guess I can understand that; even if they allow so many other posts that aren't specifically about government politics.

Its not something you could tell from a blood test.

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Xythris posted...

Why did they delete it on the politics board?

The politics board is a shithole echo chamber.

pfh1001 posted...

The politics board is a shithole echo chamber.

I'd get a war started on that board if I was a regular.


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WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

People with autism have different needs than healthy functioning people.

I both understand and don't understand this. I feel like there isn't enough of a clear distinction to segment all the kids that "show autistic behaviors"...and what if those behaviors are just temporary behaviors the kid is going through? People's thoughts and behaviors change throughout life.

Besides maybe needing different teaching methods for language, what other needs would necessitate this label? Especially higher functioning autistic adults that seem to have been doing fine before they were assigned this label.

Didn't Hans Assburger send autistic kids to Nazi clinics where they murdered disabled people

I heard calling it asperger's is discouraged due to this

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AP3Brain posted...

Especially higher functioning autistic adults that seem to have been doing fine before they were assigned this label.

Surely if they were doing fine they wouldn't end up going through the investigations that result in a diagnosis?

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AP3Brain posted...

I both understand and don't understand this. I feel like there isn't enough of a clear distinction to segment all the kids that "show autistic behaviors"...and what if those behaviors are just temporary behaviors the kid is going through? People's thoughts and behaviors change throughout life.

Besides maybe needing different teaching methods for language, what other needs would necessitate this label? Especially higher functioning autistic adults that seem to have been doing fine before they were assigned this label.

Autism is likely something that is very different than what you think it is. Most often, the reason it gets diagnosed is because of extreme developmental lags early on.

People with mid to low functioning autism will likely never live without assisted living for their entire life.

The media skews towards high functioning because it's happier. Easier to write scripts that people watch if your character is just a bit quirky, rather than needs help using the bathroom and eating.

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I think the diagnosis is a bit loose. But remember that mental health is a very soft science. Which changes it's mind more than their patients... What dsm are we on now?

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Is it discriminatory? I don't really think so. Does it explain why some people struggle in social situations? Yes.

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TeaMilk posted...

Didn't Hans Assburger send autistic kids to Nazi clinics where they murdered disabled people

I heard calling it asperger's is discouraged due to this

yes, Hans Asperger was a Nazi, and a eugenicist. it's a contributing factor to why "high-functioning autism" is a better name than "aspergers", but it's not the only reason, or even the main one.

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I'm not sure how to respond to your comment TC.....

I have Aspergers and the difference between myself and others is that I lack a range of emotions that other people experience, giving me the perception of "black or white" as my options and views in life. It also can make me kind of a "my way or the highway" kind of person.

It also makes me factually blunt about anything I have to think or say. It also means I'm insensitive (natively) to feelings of softness or anything of the like. A lot of things are lost on me about how people act and feel, with many social norms flying right over my head and over my radar. Not much I can do about that, but it makes me socially awkward and difficult to near impossible to find friends or companions in life. It can make me seem incredibly obtuse at times.

But I'm incredibly intelligent and will fight anyone that disagrees with me on that, despite me being on the spectrum for autism.

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I definitely have a disability. I'm just a lot luckier than the people down the spectrum.

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weekoldhotdog posted...

I'm not sure how to respond to your comment TC.....

I have Aspergers and the difference between myself and others is that I lack a range of emotions that other people experience, giving me the perception of "black or white" as my options and views in life. It also can make me kind of a "my way or the highway" kind of person.

It also makes me factually blunt about anything I have to think or say. It also means I'm insensitive (natively) to feelings of softness or anything of the like. A lot of things are lost on me about how people act and feel, with many social norms flying right over my head and over my radar. Not much I can do about that, but it makes me socially awkward and difficult to near impossible to find friends or companions in life. It can make me seem incredibly obtuse at times.

But I'm incredibly intelligent and will fight anyone that disagrees with me on that, despite me being on the spectrum for autism.

You're a lot like me, and that's exactly why I'm so upset about corporal punishment in that other topic. I felt like my entire childhood was wasted by my parents and other adults not knowing what was up with me. I resent that I didn't know I was autistic until my 20s. My disability was confused with a character flaw.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

You're a lot like me, and that's exactly why I'm so upset about corporal punishment in that other topic. I felt like my entire childhood was wasted by my parents and other adults not knowing what was up with me. I resent that I didn't know I was autistic until my 20s. My disability was confused with a character flaw.

I didn't find out until I was 33, imagine how I felt knowing how many things in life I could have changed by knowing this and how many things would've been different for me.

But we are who we are and our past helps us make up a part of that. That's why I'm not fighting your opinion, but rather trying to express mine without offending you. There are other streets, our parents and others, chose not to take them. All we can do is make today better and not dwell on the past, as living in the past never puts people far into the future.

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weekoldhotdog posted...

I didn't find out until I was 33, imagine how I felt knowing how many things in life I could have changed by knowing this and how many things would've been different for me.

But we are who we are and our past helps us make up a part of that. That's why I'm not fighting your opinion, but rather trying to express mine without offending you. There are other streets, our parents and others, chose not to take them. All we can do is make today better and not dwell on the past, as living in the past never puts people far into the future.

It's hard not to. I had good and bad in my life and I wouldn't trade the good, but man my entire childhood was a failed experiment.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

It's hard not to. I had good and bad in my life and I wouldn't trade the good, but man my entire childhood was a failed experiment.

It isn't a failed experiment if something good came from it. :D

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weekoldhotdog posted...

It isn't a failed experiment if something good came from it. :D

Depends on how much damage the bad cost. I'm still literally paying for it.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

Depends on how much damage the bad cost. I'm still literally paying for it.

One day, the water will be under the bridge and you'll feel better about tomorrow.

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weekoldhotdog posted...

I didn't find out until I was 33, imagine how I felt knowing how many things in life I could have changed by knowing this and how many things would've been different for me.

I'm just curious. As adults, what does being diagnosed as autistic do for you? What would you have changed if you were aware of this classification as a kid?

I had a friend+roommate in college that was diagnosed with aspergers as a kid. He definitely was different and a bit blunt when it came to his opinions (we couldn't bring him to certain restaurants because of this lol). I did not see how he wasn't self-sufficient though. He eventually got a job and lived on his own like every "neurotypical" person.

I still want to understand why there is supposedly this difference from the average person. Again. Conditions like bi-polar can be explained physiologically but there is a lack of similar understanding when it comes to autism.

(Got deleted from politics so trying here)

This will go over well.

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AP3Brain posted...

I both understand and don't understand this. I feel like there isn't enough of a clear distinction to segment all the kids that "show autistic behaviors"...and what if those behaviors are just temporary behaviors the kid is going through? People's thoughts and behaviors change throughout life.

What behaviors associated with autism do you think would be potentially temporary

Besides poor eye contact
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yemmy posted...

Yeah you're right it is all bullshit.

It is so they can take your rights away.

Its not all bullshit but from talking to friends who have been given a label it does hinder them when it comes to interacting with the government (for unemployment or what have you).

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Some famous people are thought to have had Asperger's... Notably, Sir Isaac Newton, who invented calculus and died a virgin.
That sounds about right.
Thankfully I'm a good looking guy and my wife wasn't shy.

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