Current Events > A plot hole is bad writing...but

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the0rebirth
08/31/21 12:55:27 PM
#1:


providing an explanation for the plot hole doesn't automatically make the writing less bad, because the explanation itself can be shitty as well. :)

I feel like too many people don't understand this.

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SSJKirby
08/31/21 12:56:29 PM
#2:


Most people dont know what a plot hole is anyway

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CyricZ
08/31/21 12:57:03 PM
#3:


SSJKirby posted...
Most people dont know what a plot hole is anyway


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#4
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#5
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CyricZ
08/31/21 12:57:34 PM
#6:


DuranOfForcena posted...
case in point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo:_A_Star_Wars_Story
I don't get it.

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JimmyFraska
08/31/21 12:58:06 PM
#7:


The entire Star Wars community diesnt understand this. I say bringing the Emperor back for Episode 9 is shit writing, and they start giving me a lore explanation on why it makes sense. I don't give a fuck.
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#8
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CyricZ
08/31/21 1:00:56 PM
#9:


DuranOfForcena posted...
Solo: A "George Lucas actually DID know what he was talking about with the whole '12 parsecs' thing" Story
Oh.

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DeadBankerDream
08/31/21 1:01:07 PM
#10:


Saying that plot holes are necessarily bad writing is pretty fucking ridiculous.

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the0rebirth
08/31/21 1:04:46 PM
#12:


DeadBankerDream posted...
Saying that plot holes are necessarily bad writing is pretty fucking ridiculous.

How? Nobody writes a plot with the intention of leaving holes in it. There's a difference between "questions that aren't meant to have clear answers" and "things that straight-up don't make sense".

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CyricZ
08/31/21 1:04:50 PM
#13:


16-BITTER posted...
That wasn't a plot hole, it was just lore that didn't require an explanation, much less a silly one, like why his name is "Solo".

SSJKirby posted...
Most people dont know what a plot hole is anyway

Also...

the0rebirth posted...
How? Nobody writes a plot with the intention of leaving holes in it. There's a difference between "questions that aren't meant to have clear answers" and "things that straight-up don't make sense".
I think that might be the point. Nobody would write a plot with holes in it. I seem to recall a lot of "plot holes" come down to editing and cutting for time.

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SwayM
08/31/21 1:05:29 PM
#14:


16-BITTER posted...
That wasn't a plot hole, it was just lore that didn't require an explanation, much less a silly one, like why his name is "Solo".

One of my biggest pet peeves in movies is trying to hard with fan service shit and over explaining things. Suffice to say this pissed me off greatly when I heard it.

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the0rebirth
08/31/21 1:06:09 PM
#15:


16-BITTER posted...
A butt hole is bad smelling

Not during the period between being washed and the first fart.

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DeadBankerDream
08/31/21 1:07:22 PM
#16:


Sometimes it is not significant to change a story to account for people who go "well when you think really hard about it..."

Sometimes shit is perfectly amazeballs as is and there's no benefit to fuck it up by overemphasizing supreme minute logic airtightness.

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#17
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the0rebirth
08/31/21 1:10:39 PM
#18:


DeadBankerDream posted...
Sometimes it is not significant to change a story to account for people who go "well when you think really hard about it..."

Sometimes shit is perfectly amazeballs as is and there's no benefit to fuck it up by overemphasizing supreme minute logic airtightness.

Plot holes are shortcomings, even if you don't always mind them. It is ideal to create a compelling story that also makes sense.


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ledbowman
08/31/21 1:11:17 PM
#19:


DeadBankerDream posted...
Sometimes it is not significant to change a story to account for people who go "well when you think really hard about it..."

Sometimes shit is perfectly amazeballs as is and there's no benefit to fuck it up by overemphasizing supreme minute logic airtightness.

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Questionmarktarius
08/31/21 1:12:05 PM
#20:


16-BITTER posted...
That wasn't a plot hole, it was just lore that didn't require an explanation, much less a silly one, like why his name is "Solo".
It was better when it was just Han completely bullshitting Ben and Luke.
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SwayM
08/31/21 1:18:36 PM
#21:


People who still say shit about the light speed jump in the Last Jedi like

how did no one think of this until now?

Because they didnt? Why is it so hard for people to come to grips with seeing something for the first time. Bread was around for thousands of years before some fucker decided to pre slice it.

Why dont they weaponize all ships like this?

Its expensive? Logistically next to impossible? Because suicide bombing isnt in the Rebels wheelhouse?

pick any answer you like.

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Like 90% of CE topics are the same way lol. CE is edgy/contrarian as f*** and will do anything to troll the TC/OP. -Touch
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DeadBankerDream
08/31/21 1:19:55 PM
#22:


the0rebirth posted...
Plot holes are shortcomings, even if you don't always mind them. It is ideal to create a compelling story that also makes sense.
I have dismissed this claim.

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ZevLoveDOOM
08/31/21 1:20:06 PM
#23:


look guys, all you need to know is that... somehow, Palpatine returned!
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ledbowman
08/31/21 3:02:00 PM
#24:


SwayM posted...
People who still say shit about the light speed jump in the Last Jedi like

how did no one think of this until now?

Because they didnt? Why is it so hard for people to come to grips with seeing something for the first time. Bread was around for thousands of years before some fucker decided to pre slice it.

Why dont they weaponize all ships like this?

Its expensive? Logistically next to impossible? Because suicide bombing isnt in the Rebels wheelhouse?

pick any answer you like.
cosign

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EmbraceOfDeath
08/31/21 3:10:31 PM
#25:


the0rebirth posted...
providing an explanation for the plot hole doesn't automatically make the writing less bad, because the explanation itself can be shitty as well. :)

I feel like too many people don't understand this.
Well yeah. Plot holes come from not planning well enough, and adding more to the story can't retroactively fix the insufficient planning.

SwayM posted...
People who still say shit about the light speed jump in the Last Jedi like

how did no one think of this until now?

Because they didnt? Why is it so hard for people to come to grips with seeing something for the first time. Bread was around for thousands of years before some fucker decided to pre slice it.

Why dont they weaponize all ships like this?

Its expensive? Logistically next to impossible? Because suicide bombing isnt in the Rebels wheelhouse?

pick any answer you like.
This is a really stupid way to excuse the shitty writing for that garbage movie instead of actually addressing it. And then the official excuse they gave was that it was "a one in a million shot" without any explanation. What a garbage fire that trilogy was.

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Jaded_Dragon
08/31/21 3:19:39 PM
#26:


the0rebirth posted...
providing an explanation for the plot hole doesn't automatically make the writing less bad, because the explanation itself can be shitty as well. :)

I feel like too many people don't understand this.

This is why I can't talk to people about LOST anymore. Apologists will contort themselves any which way they can to make the story make sense, but in doing so they make other things not make sense and it just becomes a revolving door until they eventually settle on "well, magic".

It very much reminds me of Flat Earthers. FE's cannot believe that gravity is a thing, because it immediately destroys the FE. So they have to pretend it doesn't exist, but none of them, not a single one realizes how much other shit gets fucked up by taking gravity out of the mix.

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refmon
08/31/21 4:13:47 PM
#27:


I've never get over them randomly finding spock in that one cave in that one planet of a million

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Tyranthraxus
08/31/21 4:20:05 PM
#28:


DuranOfForcena posted...
Solo: A "George Lucas actually DID know what he was talking about with the whole '12 parsecs' thing" Story
That's not really a plot hole that's something that's just kinda stupid

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Ratchetrockon
08/31/21 4:22:12 PM
#29:


idk good writing to me is very subjective. i dont read stories for their plot but for how pretty the author writes

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SwayM
08/31/21 6:06:25 PM
#30:


EmbraceOfDeath posted...
This is a really stupid way to excuse the shitty writing for that garbage movie instead of actually addressing it. And then the official excuse they gave was that it was "a one in a million shot" without any explanation. What a garbage fire that trilogy was.

Perfect example here. Youre given a perfectly reasonable explanation, which you didnt actually need because the scene didnt need it. And you still sit here saying without any explanation. You wanted them to sit there for 10 minutes and explain the math to you?

Someone is letting their feelings for the movie hate an amazing scene. The haters of TLJ refuse to say anything nice about it. Sad to see.

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Like 90% of CE topics are the same way lol. CE is edgy/contrarian as f*** and will do anything to troll the TC/OP. -Touch
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marthsheretoo
08/31/21 6:10:16 PM
#31:


SwayM posted...
Perfect example here. Youre given a perfectly reasonable explanation, which you didnt actually need because the scene didnt need it. And you still sit here saying without any explanation. You wanted them to sit there for 10 minutes and explain the math to you?

Someone is letting their feelings for the movie hate an amazing scene. The haters of TLJ refuse to say anything nice about it. Sad to see.

Funnily enough, that "explanation" also screws up the very scene where it happens, as suddenly the Supremacy's bridge is panicking over a literal one-in-a-million chance, and Holdo's actions look less like a sacrifice and more like her trying to enter hyperspace and flee.

If this is your bar for story logic, I'm good.

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SwayM
08/31/21 6:59:26 PM
#32:


marthsheretoo posted...
Funnily enough, that "explanation" also screws up the very scene where it happens, as suddenly the Supremacy's bridge is panicking over a literal one-in-a-million chance, and Holdo's actions look less like a sacrifice and more like her trying to enter hyperspace and flee.


Youre trying way too hard here.

https://youtu.be/s2hM1tyEL0U

The explanation doesnt change Holdos actions in the slightest.

Whatever female character: shes running away.
Poe: No she isnt.

And the Supremacy knew she was about to jump to light speed. And then they see her turn the ship towards themthe last order are morons throughout all these movies but at least they werent dumb enough to not see the writing on the wall here and bank it all on that shes never gonna pull it off. Spoilers: she does.

marthsheretoo posted...
If this is your bar for story logic, I'm good.

My bar for logic in Star Wars movies is that of lightsabres. Theyre dope and they exist. Thats all they need to be. And at no point in any movie do they explain the science and logistics behind lightsabers. Now if you want to go into the extended universe and spend your time worrying about all the details they dont care about in the movies. Good for you. But you dont need to it to enjoy the films.

Just like you dont need to try so hard to not enjoy this awesome scene. But you you do you brother.


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Like 90% of CE topics are the same way lol. CE is edgy/contrarian as f*** and will do anything to troll the TC/OP. -Touch
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marthsheretoo
08/31/21 7:26:04 PM
#33:


SwayM posted...
Youre trying way too hard here.

I'm not trying at all, dude. I love Star Wars and I want to enjoy it. But sometimes I watch things and my bullshit sensor goes off, and that makes that thing hard to enjoy.

And when I try to explain this, there are invariably people who tell me the turd I just ate was couscous, and that is just as annoying as getting my suspension of disbelief broken in the first place.

Like, do you think people are out there watching movies and trying super hard to find things to dislike about them? I for one don't have time for that.

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FurryPhilosifer
08/31/21 7:37:06 PM
#34:


On a similar note, but not necessarily plot holes, it's amazing how many of the things I dislike about certain Star Wars stories, my friend just says "well it's explained here/it makes sense with this context". I don't care if it makes sense or has an explanation. It can still not work for the story, or even be to my personal taste.

Example, I prefer the dirtier more analogue oily engine look of the original trilogy era to the shiny sci fi look the prequels tend to go more for. My friend said "oh but that's to show the corrupt decadence throughout the republic". So? I don't care! I still prefer one aesthetic to the other.

Spoilery example related to storytelling from Star Wars Rebels. Star Wars Rebels spoilers! The Obi-Wan and Maul fight. I didn't like it. It came out of nowhere, Maul's story didn't feel concluded, I didn't like Obi Wan's "exile" being interrupted, and the episode/fight had absolutely nothing to do with the overarching plot of Rebels or Ezra. It had nothing to do with anything. Said friend explained how the fight mirrors the duel from Phantom Menace, the significance of Obi Wan holding Maul and comforting him, etc etc. I don't care! It's irrelevant to the current story and didn't improve it These explanations and justifications don't make it a good scene for the story being told.

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