Board 8 > MCU General 3: Loki Loki Panic

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Mac Arrowny posted...

https://i.imgur.com/D6w4XWk.png

Season 1, episode 11... Hm. WandaVision was 9 episodes and FatWS and Loki were both 6 episodes and those are the only canon MCU TV shows so I can't imagine what you're getting at here.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

those are the only canon MCU TV shows

has disney officially stated that the rest isn't canon?

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

has disney officially stated that the rest isn't canon?

at some point James Gunn said theyre not canon, but it wasnt some kind of intentional official announcement, and he could be wrong

if ever a day comes that the canonicity of that stuff is relevant, maybe well get some kind of official word... so whenever Daredevil shows up again, probably.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

if ever a day comes that the canonicity of that stuff is relevant, maybe well get some kind of official word... so whenever Daredevil shows up again, probably.

apparently, he's going to show up in spider-man 3 so we'll see!

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

at some point James Gunn said theyre not canon, but it wasnt some kind of intentional official announcement, and he could be wrong

if ever a day comes that the canonicity of that stuff is relevant, maybe well get some kind of official word... so whenever Daredevil shows up again, probably.

Anything, absolutely anything from the non-Disney+ TV shows that disagrees with the movies is automatically not canon. If Civil War says the death toll of the Battle of New York is a given number then that is canon and Agents of SHIELD giving a different number isn't. The Disney+ shows are being held in the same level of regard as the movies going forward, but all of the other shows that tried to link to the MCU are not part of the overall canon unless one of the movies or a Disney+ show says so.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

apparently, he's going to show up in spider-man 3 so we'll see!

Mutliverasal MADNESS!!! We're also supposed to see Toby the terrible, Andrew Garfield, several actors that played as villains to either of them and who knows what, plus JK Simmons as J Jonah Jameson! But none of those old Spiderman movies are going to be canon to the MCU, it's just going to be them having fun with the multiverse.

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Finished catching up to the MCU today so here are some thoughts about the post-Endgame stuff:

Wandavision: Neat idea from a meta standpoint. Liked seeing the sitcom permutation through the decades. The "real world" scenes are pretty awful though: Randall Park is good, but everything else was super dry/cliche. Last battle was Suicide Squad level bad. Kind of got me hyped for Dr. Strange 2, so it did its job I guess. Also, goddamn Elizabeth Olsen is hot. 6/10

F&WS: This was honestly pretty bad. Too preachy and too padded out. There's no reason this should be 6 hours:cut it down to 2.5 hours and call it Cap 4. The Sharon twist is really forced/unearned/out of nowhere. Falcap's costume needs work. Bucky/Sebastian Stan was the highlight for sure. 4/10

Loki: And now, the polar opposite problem that F&WS had. This show needs to be longer and more fleshed out. There's honestly two six-episode seasons worth of content crammed into this. As people have said already, Loki's sort of "face turn" needs time to really develop for it to actually work, and the premise itself would benefit from a few "monster of the week" type episodes. The actors are all pretty good here, Hiddleston and Wilson obviously being standouts. Really nice aesthetic. Clearly the most "high concept" Marvel's ever gotten, even if this means it's derivative somewhat of Dr. Who/R&M. 8/10

Black Widow: Starts off with promise, and then it remembers it's a Marvel movie. There is such a ridiculous tonal shift in the last act here from spy thriller to superhero fluff. It honestly seems insulting. The decision to make the main villain basically a human trafficker is interesting, because the whole "women as resources" thing is a real issue facing the world today, but they throw that out the window by giving him a floating fortress and generic evil dude. Meanwhile, the side characters start out as morally grey antagonists and by the end we're supposed to see them as Bob's Burgers characters basically. The Red Guardian is an abusive, cruel, failed Captain America and Rachel Weisz's character is a mad scientist who tortures a pig in front of us, and half an hour later we're supposed to view them as a happy yet dysfunctional family. Doesn't work. Fun fight scenes though. It's not the worst Marvel film, but it's at the low end of the mediocre tier. 5/10.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

apparently, he's going to show up in spider-man 3 so we'll see!

Charlie Cox just had to pull out of some fan event thing due to a last minute filming situation just as reshoots for No Way Home have started up

so it seems pretty dang certain at this point that theyre bringing him back as Matt Murdock, which is very exciting to me since it also clearly opens the door to Vincent DOnofrio returning as Kingpin too (and maybe Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones which is cool too... and then also I guess maybe any of the other people from those shows which would range from kinda cool to not very cool)
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Charlie Cox just had to pull out of some fan event thing due to a last minute filming situation just as reshoots for No Way Home have started up

so it seems pretty dang certain at this point that theyre bringing him back as Matt Murdock, which is very exciting to me since it also clearly opens the door to Vincent DOnofrio returning as Kingpin too (and maybe Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones which is cool too... and then also I guess maybe any of the other people from those shows which would range from kinda cool to not very cool)

Did you not like John Bernthal as Punisher?

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Hes alright. I never got around to watching his solo show so Im not as attached, but I wouldnt mind him coming back.
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Punisher parts of Daredevil S2 > Punisher S1 > Punisher S2

Punisher S2's villain was a mistake...
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Did you not like John Bernthal as Punisher?

Disney will NEVER allow Punisher on their shows in the current political climate.

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They had US Agent straight up execute a guy who had surrendered, and then gave him a bit of redemption at the end. I dont think Punisher is necessarily out of the question.
Hes not really a cop and he mostly kills really bad, weird European guys, so its fine.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

They had US Agent straight up execute a guy who had surrendered, and then gave him a bit of redemption at the end. I dont think Punisher is necessarily out of the question.

u.s. agent only killed one guy, though, and he did so in a blind rage because his best friend had just been killed. punisher is more like a john wick type of character who regularly kills people. i wouldn't say the two are comparable.

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I saw Loki Episode 5, still don't think I like this series specifically but I'm intrigued to see the MCU's direction after this. Felt basically the same way about Captain Marvel though.

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oh no there's no MCU thing to watch this week whatever shall I do

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The behind the scenes special for Loki? I think that's out today and the other two were kinda interesting to watch.

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At this point, I think Marvel is just about ready to shelve the Punisher entirely. They haven't had an on-going Punisher title for a couple of years and his last limited series is all about him not being the one that killed the bad guys. He's been a supporting character in other stories more recently, but even then it feels like they've been leaning in more on "look at how bad he is for killing people" while actually having him kill fewer people.

With the way the character and his symbol have been misappropriated in recent times this trend isn't changing, and the big D isn't going to want him related to any of their big MCU projects.

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RyoCaliente posted...

Disney will NEVER allow Punisher on their shows in the current political climate.

They have confirmed they will be keeping the R rating for Deadpool so I don't really think anything is out of the question.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

With the way the character and his symbol have been misappropriated in recent times

Thats actually a fair point.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

They have confirmed they will be keeping the R rating for Deadpool so I don't really think anything is out of the question.

I think it is less about the R rating, and more about how the Punisher's symbol has been co-opted by cops.

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I mean its so bad that the Punishers creator has spoken against it.

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They should have a big anti-cop Punisher story... but they won't.

Finished with Loki, well that was an ending.

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I feel like this is obvious, but maybe not - the Loki ending and the Wanda ending happen at the same time.

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FFDragon posted...

I feel like this is obvious, but maybe not - the Loki ending and the Wanda ending happen at the same time.

Did not occur to me until just now.

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Ok, Im going to be that idiot. How do we know that?

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FFDragon posted...

I feel like this is obvious, but maybe not - the Loki ending and the Wanda ending happen at the same time.

Like, the Loki ending and the post credit scene?

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Couldn't it be said the Loki ending happens at the same time as literally everything?

Unless there was some easter egg in that scene with the "true" Ravonna on Earth that showed a time frame.

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Yeah, killing John majors splits the sacred timeline into the multiverse, which is what lets Wanda hear Billy and Tommy from one of the brand new branches.

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FFDragon posted...

Yeah, killing John majors splits the sacred timeline into the multiverse, which is what lets Wanda hear Billy and Tommy from one of the brand new branches.

Oh, so it's some silly time nonsense like that episode of Legends of Tomorrow where the Legends were scattered in different decades but still had to activate their McGuffins "at the same time".

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Ah yes, circumstantial simultaneity

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My mom asked how people who don't have Disney+ are going to know that these shows are important for later films. I told her that Disney has made it clear that will be the case.

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I mean they already did an excellent job of catching you up on the bare necessary information in IW and Endgame.
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It's hard to know for sure until Doctor Strange comes out, but I'm still a little doubtful that the Disney+ shows will really be required viewing. I still expect the movies to be written in a way where viewers will still be able to understand 99% of things without watching the TV shows.

Like yes technically Loki ended with a huge game changer that sets up the events of Phase 4 going forward, but at the same time I'm sure the movies will introduce the multiverse in a sufficient manner all on their own.

The only questionable thing right now is how they'll handle Loki showing up again in a movie. Other characters like Monica and Walker should be easy to re-introduce in the movies. I guess White Vision could be complicated if he ever shows back up.

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I think you can introduce this Loki in a movie pretty easily because the other characters wont know whats gone on with him. You just get Strange or whoever to be like youre dead, and this Lokis like no, your Loki is dead, Im this different Loki
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It's not Loki existing at all that's the thing, so much as how will they explain how he gets from the end of Loki S1 to wherever he's popping up next. Unless the TVA itself is showing up in Strange 2 or something, which could certainly happen.

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Wanda seems like she'll be really difficult to explain without her show (she's looking for her and Vision's kids that may or may not exist) but also kind of easy because she had basically no presence outside of it. And Strange can easily explain her magic. I suppose it'll depend on how much her character arc features.

I already see them doing a bunch of jokes about no one believing TVA Loki isnt the dead Loki whenever he inevitably shows up elsewhere.

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I figure they will catch people up with a few jokes - MCU has been really good at this.

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The behind the scenes episode with Loki was probably the best out of the three so far. Tom's narration and passion really shines.

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Finally got around to checking Loki out.

Solid stuff, best MCU thing I've seen in a good while, but then I am a sucker for time shenanigans. This really ticked a lot of boxes for me. Still kinda meh on the rest of the MCU, but this might help breath new life into the next set of things.

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BlackDra90n posted...

The behind the scenes episode with Loki was probably the best out of the three so far. Tom's narration and passion really shines.

I should check this out

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Most of the movies aren't even necessary to follow along with the Infinity Saga, so I doubt these shows will be absolutely must watch even though they're clearly laying the groundwork for the next saga. I mean, If you watch just the Avengers movies, The Captain America Movies and the first Guardians of the Galaxy you know like 90% of that whole story line. You could just not watch Hulk/Captain Marvel/The Ant-Man movies and you're not really missing much at all, and I'm sure Multiverse of Madness will make it so you don't need to see WandaVision or Loki to keep up with the overall story.

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The thing is 2/3 of these shows have major character resurrections, so sure, Dr. Strange 2 can have a throwaway line about Vision being alive, but I highly doubt they're going to have a flashback/joke/recap that does a satisfying job of explaining that, so people are going to think they need to watch the shows.

It's a business strategy basically.

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If characters that were dead show up in a multiverse movie people will just assume they're from a different dimension, right?

PerfectChaosZ posted...

If characters that were dead show up in a multiverse movie people will just assume they're from a different dimension, right?

Some probably will think that for sure. The casual audience's ability to misinterpret what they see should not be underestimated, lol. It reminds me of my mom watching X-Men: First Class and thinking Emma Frost was Mystique and Shaw was Magneto.

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colliding posted...

The thing is 2/3 of these shows have major character resurrections, so sure, Dr. Strange 2 can have a throwaway line about Vision being alive, but I highly doubt they're going to have a flashback/joke/recap that does a satisfying job of explaining that, so people are going to think they need to watch the shows.

It's a business strategy basically.

What's the second resurrection?
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