Board 8 > MCU General 3: Loki Loki Panic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oops all Lokis

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hey it's also gonna be black widow time along with Loki next week

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I'll need some convincing for that Disney+ pricing tho

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Not paying 30 for that I'm just gonna go to the theater

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but then i gotta walk

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Is Aizen a Loki

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I'm a little annoyed they're seemingly not addressing all the time anachronisms/nexus events Sylvie caused at the end of the second episode. Seemed like it was going to be some big fun shenanigans bonanza, but then they haven't even mentioned it since. I guess they just quietly fixed it all up while we were watching Lamentis?

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I'm quite excited for Black Widow
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for the record it's free on D+ from October 6th

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ninkendo posted...

Is Aizen a Loki

Wow. Yeah, that tracks.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

for the record it's free on D+ from October 6th

Yea I'm not sure if ill buy it or wait. I kind of want to go see it in theaters but I'm not sure if I'll do that either.

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Grimlyn posted...

hey it's also gonna be black widow time along with Loki next week

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I'll need some convincing for that Disney+ pricing tho

yeah the people not using spoiler tags for Loki -plz start.

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Is it not in-character for Loki to project his own thoughts onto someone who is only superficially like him and then fall in love with the false projection he's built up for himself? Dude is a TURBO narcissist.

If Sylvie actually reciprocates then yeah maybe you have a point. That would be stupid (but, admittedly, very funny).

valid points and i'll admit that the majority of my issues come from my assumption that loki and sylvie ARE going to end up together. if sylvie is eventually going to be like "lol no fuck off," that's fine. this is still a disney show, though. i doubt it's going to be like the terminal, where they're building up a romance for the entire movie and then it doesn't happen in the end after all. but hey, maybe they'll surprise me!

also agree with GMUN's point that loki x sylvie is surprisingly heteronormative. it's funny because disney is supposed to be this super "woke" company, according to its gamergate/anti-SJW haters. i think it would be really cool if we saw loki kiss a dude at one point, though i'm certainly not demanding this from the show.

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on the heteronormative thing, I was sort of surprised after there had been discussion in interviews of Loki being genderfluid, it turns out thats not really the case here.
I had assumed when she showed up that Sylvie was a Loki who chose to take on a new female identity, but in the last episode she says she was born a girl.
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Trans people generally (though not always) consider themselves born as their transitioned gender, fwiw. They were just assigned a different gender by parents/doctors/society

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The end of the last episode saved it. I was about to be super annoyed they pulled another wandavision and canned the original interesting setup for generic super hero.

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I kinda don't agree with the whole thing about Loki being a narcissist and that's why he fell for Sylvie. His animating motivations for the last decade have been self-loathing and an inferiority complex. Dude HATES himself. Like think of all the time he spent between Dark World and Ragnarok just chilling as Odin. He didn't seem to have any ambition beyond that, and he didn't try to do anything like make a miraculous return and have "Odin" abdicate the throne to him so he could rule under his own identity. I don't think a narcissist would be satisfied ruling under a false identity, but I get the feeling Loki was truly happy during that time. He hated being Loki and just wanted to not have to anymore.

I think anyone who thinks they know what Loki's motives are for the series and what his ultimate plans are is taking shots in the dark.

And that's what I love about it. Dude could be planning literally anything.

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MrGreenonion posted...

I kinda don't agree with the whole thing about Loki being a narcissist and that's why he fell for Sylvie. His animating motivations for the last decade have been self-loathing and an inferiority complex. Dude HATES himself. Like think of all the time he spent between Dark World and Ragnarok just chilling as Odin. He didn't seem to have any ambition beyond that, and he didn't try to do anything like make a miraculous return and have "Odin" abdicate the throne to him so he could rule under his own identity. I don't think a narcissist would be satisfied ruling under a false identity, but I get the feeling Loki was truly happy during that time. He hated being Loki and just wanted to not have to anymore.

My interpretation here is that Loki may hate his TRUE self but he's all about illusions. He has this grand idea about what he deserves and this conquering, scheming, badass version of himself that he COULD like, and that's the version of himself he projects when he's being a villain. His arc is that over time he gets worse at lying about this, which took four movies but we are seeing condensed here (look how laughably awful he was at lying about his feelings this episode). Meanwhile Sylvie already is that "badass Loki," at least to him.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

on the heteronormative thing, I was sort of surprised after there had been discussion in interviews of Loki being genderfluid, it turns out thats not really the case here.
I had assumed when she showed up that Sylvie was a Loki who chose to take on a new female identity, but in the last episode she says she was born a girl.

I don't think anything in the episode outright debunks the theory (echoing post 14 here) but I do find it so very Disney that they went out of their way to provide ammunition against the headcanon this episode. Was especially rolling my eyes at the scene in the elevator where Sylvie asks what she was even arrested for and gets told by Miss Badass Time Cop that she doesn't remember. Lmao really bitch? You expect me to believe you forgot Sylvie got arrested for the crime of being a woman? They couldn't have just written confirmation of that? It isn't really a mystery - she's right there! Yes, they used that line to make a point about how fascism doesn't care but they could still have made that same point.

Really hard for me not to view this the exact same way as bi Loki - Disney gets to have their cake and eat it too as long as they aren't super explicit about it on-screen.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

as especially rolling my eyes at the scene in the elevator where Sylvie asks what she was even arrested for and gets told by Miss Badass Time Cop that she doesn't remember. Lmao really bitch? You expect me to believe you forgot Sylvie got arrested for the crime of being a woman? They couldn't have just written confirmation of that?

To be fair I don't think that's finished with yet. When Sylvie asked, Ravonna was definitely smirking like she's lying and that she's actually fully aware of what Sylvie's asking about. But Ravonna had all the power and didn't want to say, while the episode ends off with the Sylvie and Ravonna alone together with Sylvie now in charge demanding her tell all. I believe we still may hear the specifics, although yeah things have been getting glossed over a lot for sure so far (namely as mnk mentioned the episode 2 closer that seemed like it should've been a bigger deal)

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GuessMyUserName posted...

To be fair I don't think that's finished with yet. When Sylvie asked, Ravonna was definitely smirking like she's lying and that she's actually fully aware of what Sylvie's asking about. But Ravonna had all the power and didn't want to say, while the episode ends off with the Sylvie and Ravonna alone together with Sylvie now in charge demanding her tell all. I believe we still may hear the specifics, although yeah things have been getting glossed over a lot for sure so far (namely as mnk mentioned the episode 2 closer that seemed like it should've been a bigger deal)

I'm remaining open to the possibility that there's a twist, but to be perfectly frank I'm going to have a hard time being sold on something other than the obvious answer here. And also, after Wandavision really burned me out on the whole "cryptic and secretive slow burn buildup for incredibly obvious events" it's possible I'm being too harsh here, because Loki is legitimately handling that better so far.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I don't think anything in the episode outright debunks the theory (echoing post 14 here) but I do find it so very Disney that they went out of their way to provide ammunition against the headcanon this episode. Was especially rolling my eyes at the scene in the elevator where Sylvie asks what she was even arrested for and gets told by Miss Badass Time Cop that she doesn't remember. Lmao really bitch? You expect me to believe you forgot Sylvie got arrested for the crime of being a woman? They couldn't have just written confirmation of that? It isn't really a mystery - she's right there! Yes, they used that line to make a point about how fascism doesn't care but they could still have made that same point.

I also agree that there's more to this than Sylvie being arrested simply because she was born as a female Loki. If that were true, then her nexus event would have started either immediately at birth or possibly immediately upon being adopted into the royal family. I could be wrong, but logically, there would have to be more to it than simply because Sylvie is a female version of Loki.

In fact - the twist may be that she's not actually a version of Loki at all. Or that all of the "Variants" aren't really even variants at all. Whoever or whatever is behind the TVA probably has something else behind their kidnapping of all of these so-called "Variants".

Either way, I do agree that Ravonna completely knows why she arrested Sylvie. She had been chasing Sylvie for years. She either didn't want to admit the reason or she was being smug and screwing with Sylvie.

Also, Episode 4 was WAAAAAYYYYYY better than Episode 3.


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I like the idea I've read that Sylvie became a nexus event because she was going to be good, when Loki is supposed to be bad. She was playing in her room with a Valkyrie doll when she was taken, and she yelled for people to help the other guy being restrained. As a girl, she could've had aspirations of actually becoming a Valkyrie, and that would go against the path Loki is supposed to take. Until then, being a girl may not have been enough to cause a nexus event, because she could've still gone down the villain route.

Not to mention she doesn't want to rule the TVA, she just wants to tear down what she thinks is a corrupt fascist organization; something a hero would want to do.

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mnkboy907 posted...

just wants to tear down what she thinks is a corrupt fascist organization; something a hero would want to do.

To be fair, history is littered with the bodies of people who think they are the hero of their own story doing villainous things.

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so far odd-numbered episodes have been kinda middle of the road while the even-numbered are bangers

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FFDragon posted...

To be fair, history is littered with the bodies of people who think they are the hero of their own story doing villainous things.

Sure, but this is an organization who tried to murder her as a child, so she has a pretty good case to make.

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It could just be a lesser of two evils situation, which is how they've managed to make Loki the "good guy" in other stuff.

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Leonhart4 posted...

It could just be a lesser of two evils situation, which is how they've managed to make Loki the "good guy" in other stuff.

I guess my point is she doesn't have any ulterior motives for wanting to take them down. She doesn't want to usurp their power or anything, like our Loki would try to do. She just wants to get rid of them so she and people like her can be free to exist. It's that difference in motive and personality that makes her incompatible with the sacred timeline, because that's not how a Loki is "supposed" to be.

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mnkboy907 posted...

I guess my point is she doesn't have any ulterior motives for wanting to take them down. She doesn't want to usurp their power or anything, like our Loki would try to do. She just wants to get rid of them so she and people like her can be free to exist. It's that difference in motive and personality that makes her incompatible with the sacred timeline, because that's not how a Loki is "supposed" to be.

Or so she says! She is a Loki, after all. Maybe we're supposed to fall for it.

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Yes, that could be true!

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mnkboy907 posted...

I like the idea I've read that Sylvie became a nexus event because she was going to be good, when Loki is supposed to be bad. She was playing in her room with a Valkyrie doll when she was taken, and she yelled for people to help the other guy being restrained. As a girl, she could've had aspirations of actually becoming a Valkyrie, and that would go against the path Loki is supposed to take. Until then, being a girl may not have been enough to cause a nexus event, because she could've still gone down the villain route.

Not to mention she doesn't want to rule the TVA, she just wants to tear down what she thinks is a corrupt fascist organization; something a hero would want to do.

Damm! I like that idea.

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mnkboy907 posted...

I like the idea I've read that Sylvie became a nexus event because she was going to be good, when Loki is supposed to be bad. She was playing in her room with a Valkyrie doll when she was taken, and she yelled for people to help the other guy being restrained. As a girl, she could've had aspirations of actually becoming a Valkyrie, and that would go against the path Loki is supposed to take. Until then, being a girl may not have been enough to cause a nexus event, because she could've still gone down the villain route.

Not to mention she doesn't want to rule the TVA, she just wants to tear down what she thinks is a corrupt fascist organization; something a hero would want to do.

I can buy this, although I feel the need to point out the nitpick that if Sylvie diverged because she idolized and wanted to become a Valkyrie, an all-female warrior group, then it's not exactly an unrelated distinction! It's kind of the same twist, but more, which is why it would work.

So it's plausible! The only thing there is that it starts to raise questions about timeline mechanics (namely, that a timeline with the Sylvie swap but all other events being identical is not strong enough to be considered different from the main timeline, which I am not too sure holds up) but at this point you're getting into time travel mechanic discourse and that's just insane.

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Yeah I'm not even really sure how these variants even happen if the sacred timeline is just a singular timeline being maintained. Like where do these irregularities even come from unless there's multiple timelines continuing to exist in the first place? Maybe time travelers and the TVA is just bad at neutralizing all the little ripples, so other changes manifest later?

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

(namely, that a timeline with the Sylvie swap but all other events being identical is not strong enough to be considered different from the main timeline, which I am not too sure holds up)

In this hypothetical, there could still be many more points of variety that break off later in life. There could be countless Sylvie variants that stayed in line with Loki until suddenly they didn't. As a kid kept in a palace, it stands to reason that many things wouldn't really matter until they're older and more independent, at which point they get pruned.

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I've seen some explanations like the timeline could be like a rope... *googles rope twisting*



so there could be multiple timelines that still follow along the sacred timeline's path

I'd probably lean on the idea that some timelines remain close enough to the sacred timeline that they aren't detected yet, or converge back into the sacred timeline which maybe isn't a problem (this would include the timelines the Avengers stole time stones from but then return back, bringing those timelines back into the sacred branch)

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mnkboy907 posted...

Yeah I'm not even really sure how these variants even happen if the sacred timeline is just a singular timeline being maintained. Like where do these irregularities even come from unless there's multiple timelines continuing to exist in the first place? Maybe time travelers and the TVA is just bad at neutralizing all the little ripples, so other changes manifest later?

Yeah this is the conclusion I came to by going down the time travel mechanic rabbit hole. We KNOW there logically has to be a ton of alternate timelines that are "okay" because 1) Endgame was already explained as "supposed" to happen and 2) everytime Sylvie hides out in an apocalypse, by the shows logic this is an alternate timeline with differences too small to detect by the TVA.. So following that to the logical conclusion, there is no one alpha timeline. There are actually infinite versions of the "canon" MCU with inconsequential differences that the TVA cannot meaningfully distinguish between. But this would also mean that what constitutes a "Nexus Event" is completely arbitrary and just up to what the TVA decides is different enough to detect and cull. Which could very well be the point! Fascism is arbritrary. So in this version, they don't actually care which version is the "real" timeline but that all the timelines are similar enough and, presumably, don't find out about each other and start fighting again.

Edit: ninjad by rope which is a much more succinct version of this lol

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Okay, that rope concept sounds good enough for me.

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oh my god episode 4

But also that fight choreography was pretty weak

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Well after episode 4 the whole "Sacred Timeline"/multiversal war thing is potentially bullshit bc we know the Time Keepers aren't real and if the Miss Minutes video was lying about that then there's no reason to believe that stuff either.

One theory I've heard that I like is that the villain behind the Time Keepers may be another Loki variant, perhaps one that succeeded in his villainous schemes, probably in Avengers since this Loki is fresh off his defeat in that movie. This would fit with what Sylvie was saying about maybe what makes a Loki a Loki is that they're destined to lose, as well as the repeated stuff about who's the superior Loki. Also just the general idea that Loki is his own worst enemy, in this case literally. It feels more like the ending they'd go with for this series than it being Kang, like that feels more like the Agatha All Along reveal while Kang is more of a Mephisto theory. Still, I could see him being introduced in a post-credits tease like Thanos was.

A post from another topic I thought was cool and decided to share.

littlebro07 posted...

Just saw a theory on tiktok that all of the episodes are based on an infinity stone:

Episode 1 - Soul. Lots of orange in this episode. We see a new side to Loki, that he has a soul and cares for people and has actual emotions

Episode 2 - Reality. Lots of red in this episode. Loki is questioning whats real, whos real, etc.

Episode 3 - Power. Lots of purple in this episode. Loki and Sylvie show off a lot of new powers. They spend much of the episode looking for a power source.

Episode 4 - Mind. Lots of yellow/gold in this episode. Loki changes Mobiuss mind and Sylvie changes B-15s mind about the TVA

Two episodes left. Two stones left. Space and Time.

Oh and another video about Ravonna. In the opening of this weeks episode her call sign is A-23. Her first appearance in the comics was Avengers #23, where Kang the Conquerer professed his love to her and she shot his ass down.

So many cool details in this show

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

A post from another topic I thought was cool and decided to share.

Love this. Wow.

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neonreaper posted...

yeah the people not using spoiler tags for Loki -plz start.

I haven't spoiled anything in here yet so no need for tags yet, but people need to stop being whiny little bitches about this. It's very clear what the topic is and if you don't want spoilers then you shouldn't open it. It's like walking into a sauna and then complaining that its hot. No fucking shit its hot, that's the whole damn point. Don't try to penalize others because you're too stupid to know that a topic about an on-going show is going to have spoilers in it.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

I haven't spoiled anything in here yet so no need for tags yet, but people need to stop being whiny little bitches about this. It's very clear what the topic is and if you don't want spoilers then you shouldn't open it. It's like walking into a sauna and then complaining that its hot. No fucking shit its hot, that's the whole damn point. Don't try to penalize others because you're too stupid to know that a topic about an on-going show is going to have spoilers in it.

Posting stuff without spoiler tags in a topic that doesn't have a spoiler tag in the title is a shitty thing to do, then complaining when people point out it's a shitty thing to do and acting like an asshole for no obvious reason is a pretty dumb thing to get uppity about.

I know it's crazy, but it's entirely possible that someone (like myself) isn't all the way caught up on the series but, maybe, I dunno, had the idea of wanting to still participate in the topic to give their thoughts on what they've actually watched so far.

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Honestly don't think a polite request to use spoiler tags as a courtesy to others makes somebody a "whiny little bitch"

That would be true to an extent even if it were just a Loki topic, but it's an MCU general topic and there's a separate movie coming out next week.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

I haven't spoiled anything in here yet so no need for tags yet, but people need to stop being whiny little bitches about this. It's very clear what the topic is and if you don't want spoilers then you shouldn't open it. It's like walking into a sauna and then complaining that its hot. No fucking shit its hot, that's the whole damn point. Don't try to penalize others because you're too stupid to know that a topic about an on-going show is going to have spoilers in it.

2 things, when I posted the first MCU General I asked that anything with spoilers have spoiler tags and this is a general for the MCU so spoiler tags should be a no brainer for shows that are currently on going because there are other discussions being had as well.

And ill admit even i fucked up with that post I shared. I'm at work and just quoted and posted quickly and by the time I got back it was too late to edit.

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I'm not against using spoiler tags, I think it's a great idea. However, I don't think it's a big deal if someone accidentally forgets. Again, if you really don't want to get spoiled it's not that hard to avoid them.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

I'm not against using spoiler tags, I think it's a great idea. However, I don't think it's a big deal if someone accidentally forgets. Again, if you really don't want to get spoiled it's not that hard to avoid them.

It's an "MCU General" topic with no spoiler tag in the title, dude. Not sure why you apparently take it as a personal insult that somebody politely asked people use spoiler tags.

You'd have a point if the topic was "Loki Topic *SPOILERS*," but it's very clearly not, so you were a jackass for no reason.

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As someone who hates getting spoiled, if I'm not up to speed on the latest hot show for the MCU, I'm definitely avoiding the MCU general topic until I'm caught up.

Which is what I did for the last topic and also why I waited until now to scold SHINE that the topic title should have been "Loki Loki Literature Club Plus."

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look I had to pick one or the other and Mario won out

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Well you picked wrong.

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spoilers I thought it fit better

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