Current Events > Paris Hilton and others were kidnapped as a teen, abused at 'tough love' camps

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Trumble posted...

This is the same kind of logic as the whole "it's ephebophilia" crowd use.

No, it's not. I don't get why some of you are so insistent that you should be able to make up your own definitions for crimes.

ekie posted...

You're not a lawyer. It's not kidnapping

Achtshually

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Achtshually

Ahh, that tired old well that people go to when they're unhappy about being called out for making up definitions to fit the current argument.

Leave it to CE to get more fucking worked up over people describing these actions as kidnapping than the actual story itself.

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Tenlaar posted...

Ahh, that tired old well that people go to when they're unhappy about being called out for making up definitions to fit the current argument.

Literally defending legalised kidnapping and child abuse.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Literally defending legalised kidnapping and child abuse.

It's not defending arson to say that it's not robbery. I clearly said earlier that this is abuse, it's just not kidnapping.

I worked for one of these camps. It was designed to help troubled teens dealing with drugs or severe emotional issues, to take them away from the problem and away from where they can harm others or others harm them. It's basically involuntary rehab for teens.
Some camps are better than others.

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Anyone here see that movie where Peter Stormare ran a boot camp on a South Pacific island? For the life of me, I cannot remember what it was called.

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ChocoboMogALT posted...

I worked for one of these camps. It was designed to help troubled teens dealing with drugs or severe emotional issues, to take them away from the problem and away from where they can harm others or others harm them. It's basically involuntary rehab for teens.
Some camps are better than others.

Did they take kids in the middle of the night? Or do you not know how kids got there?

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wackyteen posted...

Did they take kids in the middle of the night? Or do you not know how kids got there?

Yes. Parents would sign them up, we had a team of people who would "sneak" in and take kids, sometimes forcefully. Usually they wouldn't have to use force, but we did have restraints if needed. Most of the kids were drug addicts that had formerly been convicted of drug possession or sale or violence.

Just for the record, we didn't officially call it "kidnapping", it wasn't legally "kidnapping", but we all called it kidnapping. It's not really "kidnapping", it's forcefully taking kids to rehab. When the cops take you to jail, they're not kidnapping you (hopefully), but it does bare an uncanny resemblance.

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wackyteen posted...

Regardless,

If I'm hired, by parents or not, to forcibly wake a child up and take them away for months on end, where I abuse said child, I can only presume the very first thing I'm getting charged with, by the parents or simply by law enforcement, is kidnapping. Whether the charge would hold is up to a judge. But it is a near guarantee that is the first charge.

No. Legally they can charge you with abuse. But since it's not kidnapping they can't charge you with kidnapping

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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

Leave it to CE to get more fucking worked up over people describing these actions as kidnapping than the actual story itself.

The problem is the story uses the word kidnapping in an effort to elevate the response to the story which makes people call into question and immediately lessens the value of the story because of the source.

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whitelytning posted...

Maybe. But in the real world in which legal standards are applied, it isn't.

Sometimes the law is wrong

This is why nobody wants to fuck the devil's advocate.

Y'all are pathetic.

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Zikten posted...

Sometimes the law is wrong

This is not one of those cases. Parents have the legal authority to say who can take their children places. It's simply not kidnapping for a child to be forced to go to a boarding school, rehab facility, or anywhere else like that that they don't want to go.

Tenlaar posted...

This is not one of those cases. Parents have the legal authority to say who can take their children places. It's simply not kidnapping for a child to be forced to go to a boarding school, rehab facility, or anywhere else like that that they don't want to go.

Maybe we are imagining different destinations. I'm talking about the most extreme camps, usually for gay kids to force them to be straight. Those are pure evil and need to be banned

Zikten posted...

Maybe we are imagining different destinations. I'm talking about the most extreme camps, usually for gay kids to force them to be straight. Those are pure evil and need to be banned

You're expecting a reasonable response from Tenlaar, it isn't going to happen.

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Zikten posted...

Maybe we are imagining different destinations. I'm talking about the most extreme camps, usually for gay kids to force them to be straight. Those are pure evil and need to be banned

That's still not kidnapping. You don't get to just make up whatever definition for crimes you feel like should fit at any given moment. Abuse and kidnapping are not interchangeable things. Shit like this is abusive, it is not kidnapping.

Tenlaar posted...

It's not defending arson to say that it's not robbery. I clearly said earlier that this is abuse, it's just not kidnapping.

your entire argument is literally actchshually

the abused children will remember the time they were kidnapped forever. It doesnt matter that the law says that they werent kidnapped. The only thing that matters here is their experience. Get the fuck out of here with your actschually bullshit

Kloe_Rinz posted...

your entire argument is literally actchshually

No, my entire argument is that this does not meet the definition of kidnapping and you don't get to make up your own definitions for crimes.

Tenlaar posted...

Kloe_Rinz posted...
your entire argument is literally actchshually
No, my entire argument is that this does not meet the definition of kidnapping

Kloe_Rinz posted...

your entire argument is literally actchshually

Let me rephrase. You care more about acktschually than you care about the victims

Tenlaar posted...

Ahh, that tired old well that people go to when they're unhappy about being called out for making up definitions to fit the current argument.

I got whoopin's, stuff broken, and then forced to some bible camp and whatnot.

All mostly for stuff I didn't understand at the time, but hey let's not actually explain anything, just not tell him about it while punishing for doing it.

Tenlaar posted...

Correct, except for no /s. It's abusive, but it's not kidnapping.

wackyteen posted...

Just because the parents hired the person(s) to do it, doesn't make it not kidnapping.

Tenlaar posted...

It literally does, though. The fuck do you think kidnapping means?

By that logic, your parents can't kidnap you, except they can and parents have been arrested for kidnapping.

NotBenBeckman posted...

By that logic, your parents can't kidnap you, except they can and parents have been arrested for kidnapping.

One parent kidnapping a child when the other parent has custody is not comparable to parents giving people permission to take their children somewhere.

Tenlaar posted...

One parent kidnapping a child when the other parent has custody is not comparable to parents giving people permission to take their children somewhere.

Good thing you don't write, interpret, or enforce the law. You don't know shit. This is kidnapping. Getting abducted with the permission of your parent or guardian, but not your own consent is kidnapping. You are not your parents property.

NotBenBeckman posted...

Good thing you don't write, interpret, or enforce the law. You don't know shit. This is kidnapping. Getting abducted with the permission of your parent or guardian, but not your own consent is kidnapping. You are not your parents property.

No, it's not. You're making up laws and going "you don't know shit about laws!" Sure I do, just not ones that you make up on the spot because it feels right to you.

Going "nuh-uh" isn't the winning argument you think it is, sport.

Hes trying to argue semantics in a topic about child abuse being bad. The kids didnt suffer any abuse or trauma, because actschually it wasnt kidnapping! That negates their experiences and memories!

NotBenBeckman posted...

Going "nuh-uh" isn't the winning argument you think it is, sport.

There is no argument here. What you're saying is just wrong. Children do not get to decide that their parents don't have the authority to say where they have to go unless it's through the courts.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Hes trying to argue semantics in a topic about child abuse being bad. The kids didnt suffer any abuse or trauma, because actschually it wasnt kidnapping! That negates their experiences and memories!

I have said repeatedly that it is abuse but not kidnapping. What do you think you're going to accomplish by lying about that now?

Tenlaar posted...

I have said repeatedly that it is abuse but not kidnapping. What do you think you're going to accomplish by lying about that now?

the fact of the matter is that the victims experienced what they believed to be a kidnapping. That doesnt go away because of some legal definition.

What do you get from your abhorrent ackschtually gimmick?

Damn thought this was a duckbear topic.
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Kloe_Rinz posted...

the fact of the matter is that the victims experienced what they believed to be a kidnapping. That doesnt go away because of some legal definition.

What do you get from your abhorrent ackschtually gimmick?

It's "abhorrent" to accurately label crimes? Whatever you say, buddy. Have fun being super outraged when people don't go along with you making definitions up on the fly.

Tenlaar posted...

It's "abhorrent" to accurately label crimes? Whatever you say, buddy. Have fun being super outraged when people don't go along with you making definitions up on the fly.

not abhorrent but you can definitely easily use it to troll with.

also it isn't like this is being argued in court and some dude had actually been charged, or not, with kidnapping

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NotBenBeckman posted...

Good thing you don't write, interpret, or enforce the law. You don't know shit. This is kidnapping. Getting abducted with the permission of your parent or guardian, but not your own consent is kidnapping. You are not your parents property.

Imagine beliving this

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wackyteen posted...

not abhorrent but you can definitely easily use it to troll with.

also it isn't like this is being argued in court and some dude had actually been charged, or not, with kidnapping

So since this isn't court it's okay to make up crimes and people should just shut up and accept it?

Some of you people will defend anything under the weakest of technicalities.

If this happened to you or someone you actually cared about, I doubt you'd be tripping over yourselves to downplay it.


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Umbreon posted...

Some of you people will defend anything under the weakest of technicalities.

If this happened to you or someone you actually cared about, I doubt you'd be tripping over yourselves to downplay it.

If it happened to someone I cared about I would say that it's abuse, just as I have here. I still wouldn't go along with calling it kidnapping. It's not downplaying what it is to not go along with calling it something it isn't.

Yet again using correct terminology and being factual are only selectively important.

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Also it really goes to show how people don't consider children to be actual human beings with rights.

You wouldn't do this to an adult. Not like having someone drag them away in the middle of the night. There are literally mass murderers who get better treatment than these kids.

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Tenlaar posted...

No, it's not. I don't get why some of you are so insistent that you should be able to make up your own definitions for crimes.

CE is not a court of law, and this topic is not the kidnappers' trials. By the average person's definition of the word, it's kidnapping.

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Trumble posted...

CE is not a court of law, and this topic is not the kidnappers' trials. By the average person's definition of the word, it's kidnapping.

This being a discussion and not a trial does not mean that it's okay to make up your own definitions for crimes and I'm not interested in you making up other things to back it up either.

Tenlaar posted...

It's "abhorrent" to accurately label crimes?

You're abhorrent for trolling people with "acktushually" in a case where children believe they were kidnapped and will take that trauma with them for the rest of their lives, and also suffered actual abuse on top of it as if a "totally legal bro" kidnapping wasnt enough
"but its the law, who gives a fuck about the kids, all that matters is the legal definition of the word. the abuse is irrelevant and the kids experience and belief they were kidnapped doesn't matter in the slightest"
fuck off

Kloe_Rinz posted...

You're abhorrent for trolling people with "acktushually" in a case where children believe they were kidnapped and will take that trauma with them for the rest of their lives, and also suffered actual abuse on top of it as if a "totally legal bro" kidnapping wasnt enough
"but its the law, who gives a fuck about the kids, all that matters is the legal definition of the word"

You're spouting nonsense because you're upset that everybody is not going along with you making up definitions for crimes. Get over yourself.

Tenlaar posted...

You're spouting nonsense

"the kids retroactively didnt experience a kidnapping, because it was actually totally legal bro"

fuck off

Kloe_Rinz posted...

"the kids retroactively didnt experience a kidnapping, because it was actually totally legal bro"

fuck off

Not retroactively. They never, at any point, experienced a kidnapping. They experienced abuse. It's weird that acknowledging this makes you so angry.

Tenlaar posted...

It's an incredibly fucked up practice and I don't know how anybody could think that inflicting that kind of trauma could help anything, but she wasn't kidnapped.

You're as bad as the "well ackshually it's not pedophilia" types

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