Current Events > billionaires actually don't pay taxes

(+) Yeah! (+)

E_S_M_Z posted...

Eh, there's kind of a difference. The difference is, my credit card limit is determined by my wages...which I pay taxes on, rather than untaxable assets I don't want to sell because my children will inherit them at market value and sell for 0 taxable gain whereas it'd cost me billions.

Thank you, at least you do get it.
I get what you are saying that my title could be better but I am saying it shouldn't matter as the content discusses that "yes they pay some tax like sales tax" but they don't pay taxes on their gains which are infact realized as income just not considered as being income by technicalities

ROOTFayth posted...

you understand that they could just live a frugal lifestyle, be billionaire and pay very little in taxes without borrowing against their stock values and people like you would still be upset, and by very little I mean a few 100ks a year which is still a shitload of money to pay in taxes yearly given the public services anyone is using

then they wouldn't actually be a billionaire because they wouldn't actually have billions in cash

do you still not understand this?

WingsOfGood posted...

then they wouldn't actually be a billionaire because they wouldn't actually have billions in cash

do you still not understand this?

wtf they don't have billions in cash man

ROOTFayth posted...

wtf they don't have billions in cash man

they do, that is the whole point

WingsOfGood posted...

then they wouldn't actually be a billionaire because they wouldn't actually have billions in cash

I'm done. Cya all on the flip side.

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Glad to see the same posts are being repeated back and forth for pages.

Hope we can eventually get one side to concede or else we're gonna have to make a new topic to continue the attrition.

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WingsOfGood posted...

they do, that is the whole point

huh yeah I don't anyone who was smart enough to become a billionaire in the first place is holding a large amount of cash lol

I'd be surprised if billionaires had more than 100 millions in cash, even then that seems like a stretch

SK8T3R215 posted...

Glad to see the same posts are being repeated back and forth for pages.

Hope we can eventually get one side to concede or else we're gonna have to make a new topic to continue the attrition.

be sure to @ me in part 2 so i can tag the topic

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E_S_M_Z posted...

Eh, there's kind of a difference. The difference is, my credit card limit is determined by my wages...which I pay taxes on, rather than untaxable assets I don't want to sell because my children will inherit them at market value and sell for 0 taxable gain whereas it'd cost me billions.

Anyone can get secured credit cards
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ROOTFayth posted...

huh yeah I don't anyone who was smart enough to become a billionaire in the first place is holding a large amount of cash lol

you think having cash means having literal stacks of bills sitting in your living room? it means their bank account can debit it whenever

WingsOfGood posted...

then they wouldn't actually be a billionaire because they wouldn't actually have billions in cash

do you still not understand this?

Uh you actually think they are holding billions in cash? Especially cash that they need to pay interest on? Lol why tf would they do that
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WingsOfGood posted...

you think having cash means having literal stacks of bills sitting in your living room? it means their bank account can debit it whenever

yeah dude not many people would be millionaires or billionaires if that meant having 1 million+ or 1 billion+ in your chequing account hahahahaha

this topic makes me FURIOUS

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g980 posted...

Uh you actually think they are holding billions in cash? Especially cash that they need to pay interest on? Lol why tf would they do that

I never said they just sit it there. Point is they can go to bank for a loan of 1 billion anytime they want, get it cause their worth is $100+ billion

and use debit to whatever they want just like the money sitting in your account right now

but yeah they likely do have several million to you know, pay property taxes and other maintenance bills

pay the chef, gardener etc

The Trent posted...

this topic makes me FURIOUS

WingsOfGood posted...

I never said they just sit it there. Point is they can go to bank for a loan of 1 billion anytime they want, get it cause their worth is $100+ billion

and use debit to whatever they want just like the money sitting in your account right now

but yeah they likely do have several million to you know, pay property taxes and other maintenance bills

pay the chef, gardener etc

So by "billions in cash" you mean something completely different
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what a classy font choice
you've done well

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The Trent posted...

what a classy font choice
you've done well

or should I reverse who is the topic and who is the trent?

g980 posted...

So by "billions in cash" you mean something completely different

incorrect

having to go to the bank for a loan and just having it in your bank account ready to be spent are pretty fuckin different mate

WingsOfGood posted...

or should I reverse who is the topic and who is the trent?

it really doesn't make a difference like 40% of the time

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g980 posted...

Anyone can get secured credit cards

Yes, but I'm not aware of anyone getting credit cards to live off in order to avoid recognizing capital gains tax.

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ROOTFayth posted...

having to go to the bank for a loan and just having it in your bank account ready to be spent are pretty fuckin different mate

Getting a check and having it in your bank ready to be spent

Okay, here's my problem...Once I read the professor's tax loophole scheme, I didn't think it mattered that much, because the estate would still be taxed on all of the stocks after I died, as it's based on assets. This is true, but not entirely...

Scenario 1:
I sell all my 100 billion in stocks, pay 20% in capital gains. I die later on with 30 billion dollars unspent, after squandering 70 billion on personal expenses (Let's assume I paid the taxes due with my savings for simplicity's sake, lol).
My kids inherit that money, and since I'm rich, my estate pays money in estate taxes only on that 30 billion that is remaining.

Scenario 2:
I instead finance all of my 70 billion in personal expenses with a loan, and die retaining my 100 billion in stocks. My estate/children get a step-up in stock basis, meaning they inherit the stocks at market value on my day of death, and they sell all 100 billion before the funeral at no taxable profit (those moneygrubbing jerks).
My estate does have to pay estate taxes before transferring the funds to my kids...BUT, because I have a 70 billion loan outstanding, the estate is only taxed on 30 billion of net assets, despite the fact I never paid any taxes on the 70 while I was alive.

This is a very simplistic example - a lot of those 70 of personal expenses were probably houses and yachts, which would be taxable assets for the estate, and those loans are probably not that large even for Bezos - but essentially, most of it STILL ends up never being taxed, lol.

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Yet they are taxing the fuck out of the poor. Just plain evil.

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The Wheelman1 posted...

Yet they are taxing the fuck out of the poor. Just plain evil.

lol what

There are solid arguments for taxing the wealthy more (not wealth taxes tho)

But the poor are objectively not taxed heavily in the US
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nor in Canada

ROOTFayth posted...

wtf they don't have billions in cash man

So answer this basic question - are people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk billionaires?

pistachio12 posted...

So answer this basic question - are people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk billionaires?

of course, the words billionaires and millionaires refer to their networth, WingsOfGood thinks it's only related to the cash you have on hand lol

g980 posted...

lol what

There are solid arguments for taxing the wealthy more (not wealth taxes tho)

But the poor are objectively not taxed heavily in the US

Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, vice tax.

Derwood posted...

Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, vice tax.

Property tax is going to be much more significant for folks with fancy houses & cars

The others may be regressive, but they are far from significant enough to say we tax the poor heavily
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g980 posted...

Property tax is going to be much more significant for folks with fancy houses & cars

The others may be regressive, but they are far from significant enough to say we tax the poor heavily

Property tax is passed on from landlords to tenants in rent payments

And why would we "heavily tax" people with no money?

Derwood posted...

Property tax is passed on from landlords to tenants in rent payments

And why would we "heavily tax" people with no money?

We dont, thats what i am saying. The other guy said we "tax the fuck out of the poor" not me
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The Wheelman1 posted...

Yet they are taxing the fuck out of the poor. Just plain evil.

Percentage wise, that would be correct.

https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/where-does-the-irs-audit-the-most-poor-rural-counties-that-are-mostly-black/#app

Bump in light of the $500 million dollar house thread about Bezos.

How did he buy that? Thought all his money was tied up and he has no income!?!?!?!?!?!

WingsOfGood posted...

Bump in light of the $500 million dollar house thread about Bezos.

How did he buy that? Thought all his money was tied up and he has no income!?!?!?!?!?!

could be money he paid taxes on the years prior

ROOTFayth posted...

could be money he paid taxes on the years prior

Wait wait wait wait

Who was mocking and laughing about having 500 million just sitting in a bank account to be used later?

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cjs28 posted...

Look on his face says it all.

do you care at all that that has nothing to do with amazon
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WingsOfGood posted...

Wait wait wait wait

Who was mocking and laughing about having 500 million just sitting in a bank account to be used later?

it doesnt have to be sitting in bank account jesus christ, I wouldnt trust you with any amount of money

g980 posted...

do you care at all that that has nothing to do with amazon

I didn't make the pic bro. And if Amazon doesn't do it, that matters not if other companies owned by billionaires do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/16/billionaires-unfair-tax-system-polarization/

But much about American life is not fair. We live with the greatest wealth divide since the Gilded Age. CEOs are getting record-breaking multimillion-dollar paydays, while unemployment benefits are getting reduced or cut off for millions of Americans. These divisions lead to inequality of opportunity, with childrens educational and earnings outcomes dependent on their parents net worth.
And then there is our tax system. Last week brought not one but two exposs detailing how the tax system works for the rich and wealthy and how it works differently for everyone else.
First up, ProPublica. The investigative news outlet obtained access to the tax returns of some of the wealthiest Americans, including Jeff Bezos, the Amazon founder who personally owns The Post. The returns revealed that many of the worlds richest men and women paid a lower effective tax rate much, much lower on their income than the typical American.
No extralegal shenanigans were necessary. They utilized an array of on-the-books maneuvers to bring their federal tab down to the low single digits. (If that. There are reportedly years when Elon Musk and other billionaires didnt owe the federal government a single cent.)
One neat trick: Some billionaires borrowed against their portfolios. This gave them a twofold advantage. They didnt need to sell stocks and other assets to maintain their lifestyle but could leave their wealth invested, where it would continue to grow, further increasing their net worth.
But thats not all. Income and capital gains are taxed, but loaned money isnt. While the rest of us are arguing about whether capital gains should be taxed like regular income, as opposed to the current rate of 15 to 20 percent, the richest among us figured out a way to avoid paying even that.
Then the New York Times published a blockbuster piece on how private-equity giants used their might and wealth, and high-priced lawyers, against the Internal Revenue Service, so much so that the understaffed and outgunned agency all but stopped conducting audits on the private-equity industry, even when whistleblowers alleged wrongdoing.
Meantime, ProPublica reports that people living in poverty who take advantage of the earned-income tax credit are more likely to be audited by the IRS than a household with $400,000 in income.
Those who dismissed as old news reports of these financial contortions especially efforts by billionaires to legally do away with their federal tax bill are missing the forest for the trees. Of course this isnt new information. Warren Buffett, revealed by ProPublica to be paying less than 1 percent of his earnings and wealth to the federal government, told the world a decade ago that the IRS took a higher percentage of his secretarys earnings than his own.
But no one wants their face rubbed in the unfairness pervading American life. Poll after poll shows that Americans want to see the rich pay more in taxes. A majority of us want to even the scales. But almost all attempts at the federal level to increase taxes on the wealthy founder in political gridlock. Its quite possible that President Bidens proposals to increase taxes on the richest Americans will meet the same fate.
Almost certainly, Americans desire to make the wealthiest citizens pay up is not simply a desire to stick it to someone else. This interest goes back to that earliest quest for fairness. Were taxed from one end to the other, and it just seems the rich dont pay their share, a Donald Trump supporter told Reuters last year.
Behavioral psychologists say that people seek equal treatment not because we are nursing childhood grudgesor are forever small children at heart but because human beings crave respect from others. Without respect, its hard to maintain successful cooperative relations between people.
Its often hard to draw direct lines to the roots of polarization in our fractious society. The wealth gap, pay inequities and other inequalities have long been apparent, yet how they triggered other outcomes hasnt always been clear. But these billionaire tax shenanigans point up what sometimes feels like a rot at the core of our society. Its just not fair.