Current Events > The Trojans worshipped Greek gods so weren't they also Greek?

(+) Yeah! (+)

But why are they considered different from Greeks since they worshipped Zeus, Apollo, Athena, etc...

Thats like asking why all Christian countries arent just one country. Troy was in whats now Turkey.

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I think it's because the company is based in New Jersey.

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Well kinda, but not really. The "Greek Gods" as we know them were actually a collection of gods from various reaches of the Mediterranean amalgamated into one pantheon by the Athenian Greeks, specifically. So it might be more accurate to say Athenians worshipped some Trojan gods.

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pegusus123456 posted...

I think it's because the company is based in New Jersey.

lol

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For anyone who has read the Iliad, there are definitely Greek gods interfering with the war and favouring either one of the 2 sides. Champions on both sides of the war are favoured by various gods. And yeah as someone mentioned, the Greek gods are just stand-ins for similar parallel gods from the neighbouring areas. Greece, Italy, the near East, Egypt, etc. All of them have sky gods, fertility gods, earth gods, etc. When Greece became a major power, their gods prevailed in popularity.

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the territory that would eventually come to be known as "Greece" was really just a bunch of warring city-states at that point, so I would be very surprised if there was actually a unified "Greek" identity.

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Since when does religion determine ethnicity?

The 'protagonists' of the Iliad aren't "The Greeks". It's the Achaeans.

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This is why Ares sucks.

The Romans believed they were descended from Mars/Ares, so Greek writers made him a shitty fighter and strategist out of spite.

FortuneCookie posted...

This is why Ares sucks.

The Romans believed they were descended from Mars/Ares, so Greek writers made him a shitty fighter and strategist out of spite.

Whereas Athenians primarily worshipped Athena, arguably the best (or least bad) of the Greek gods.

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They were condoms.

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tommybel89 posted...

For anyone who has read the Iliad, there are definitely Greek gods interfering with the war and favouring either one of the 2 sides. Champions on both sides of the war are favoured by various gods. And yeah as someone mentioned, the Greek gods are just stand-ins for similar parallel gods from the neighbouring areas. Greece, Italy, the near East, Egypt, etc. All of them have sky gods, fertility gods, earth gods, etc. When Greece became a major power, their gods prevailed in popularity.

I wouldnt lump Egypt in with the others: their traditions were *a lot* different, even down to which Gods were important: for example, in most Indo-European pantheons, the Chief God is the Sky God, but in the Egyptian Pantheon its the Sun God.
It should also be noted that the Sky and Earth are female and male in the Egyptian religion, respectively.
It is true; however, that the Greeks got super into syncretism and equating their Gods with Gods from other pantheons my favorite is Dionysus and Osiris. and they wholesale adopted some, like Isis.

jumi posted...

Whereas Athenians primarily worshipped Athena, arguably the best (or least bad) of the Greek gods.

I dunno about that. She was as petty and vile as the worst of them.

Hestia I'd say is at the top. Hades possibly does well of the "big ones"

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Funkydog posted...

I dunno about that. She was as petty and vile as the worst of them.

Hestia I'd say is at the top. Hades possibly does well of the "big ones"

What does she do that's very bad? I just remember her blinding that guy that saw her bathing, and she gave him foresight. A helluva lot better than what Artemis did.

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jumi posted...

What does she do that's very bad? I just remember her blinding that guy that saw her bathing, and she gave him foresight. A helluva lot better than what Artemis did.

Caused Ajax to go mad and slaughter cattle thinking they were his enemies and then later commit suicide, to protect Odysseus
Berated Arachne, destroying her weaving artwork despite admitting it was better than hers (as it depicted the gods as shitty people and Zeus' numerous affairs), causing her to commit suicide. Then brought her back as a spider to continue her weaving
Punished Medusa for being raped

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In the book they use the terms "Achaeans", "Danaans" or "Argives" to describe the "Greeks"

Greece is left side, Troy is right side. That's all.

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averagejoel posted...

the territory that would eventually come to be known as "Greece" was really just a bunch of warring city-states at that point, so I would be very surprised if there was actually a unified "Greek" identity.

This. There were a lot of individual identities back then. A unified Greek culture didnt really come about until much later

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Funkydog posted...

Caused Ajax to go mad and slaughter cattle thinking they were his enemies and then later commit suicide, to protect Odysseus
Berated Arachne, destroying her weaving artwork because it was better than hers (as it depicted the gods as shitty people and Zeus' numerous affairs), causing her to commit suicide. Then brought her back as a spider to continue her weaving
Punished Medusa for being raped

Ajax goes mad because Odysseus gets Achilles's armor after the war. So he kills himself in protest. Legend says he had never been cut or wounded until he fell on his own sword.

Odysseus feels guilt about this, and in the Odyssey reveals that he would have let Ajax have the armor if he knew Ajax was going to kill himself. The armor gets lost at sea anyway.

EDIT: Ajax and Odysseus both give a speech as to why they deserve the armor of Achilles, and, big surprise, Odysseus's silver tongue convinces everyone. Ajax couldn't talk too good.

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Funkydog posted...

Hades possibly does well of the "big ones"

Which is why I fucking hate Disney's Hercules for being lazy and making him the Devil basically. All in all Hades is one of the nicer Greek gods. But idiots see "oh he rules the underworld? He's Satan I guess"

Yeah Hades is chill as fuck, and Id probably consider him one of the most sane

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Zikten posted...

Which is why I fucking hate Disney's Hercules for being lazy and making him the Devil basically. All in all Hades is one of the nicer Greek gods. But idiots see "oh he rules the underworld? He's Satan I guess"

It's also quite clear that their "underworld" is an island filled with ghosts that you could physically go to, not just a hole in the ground.

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Funkydog posted...

Punished Medusa for being raped

I generally buy into the interpretation that it was protection from further harm. it's part of why medusa's face is seen as a symbol of protection

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Robot2600 posted...

Ajax goes mad because Odysseus gets Achilles's armor after the war. So he kills himself in protest. Legend says he had never been cut or wounded until he fell on his own sword.

Seems to be different versions of what happened there. What I remembered was Athena specifically cursed him, but some seem to say he just got really angry himself, or what you said.

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I always heard the medusa punishment was because she was vain, but that's probably just some Bulfinch bullshit to clean the myths up.

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Robot2600 posted...

I always heard the medusa punishment was because she was vain, but that's probably just some Bulfinch bullshit to clean the myths up.

You might be mixing her up with Arachne, who thought she was a better weaver than any goddess and challenged Athena to a weaving contest. She then compounded matters by weaving a grand tapestry depicting the gods engaged in all kinds of debauchery that was accurate lulz , which further pissed Athena off, so Athena turned Arachne into a spider.

Robot2600 posted...

I always heard the medusa punishment was because she was vain, but that's probably just some Bulfinch bullshit to clean the myths up.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

You might be mixing her up with Arachne, who thought she was a better weaver than any goddess and challenged Athena to a weaving contest. She then compounded matters by weaving a grand tapestry depicting the gods engaged in all kinds of debauchery that was accurate lulz , which further pissed Athena off, so Athena turned Arachne into a spider.

He's kinda right. There's so many variations of these myths:
https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-are-gorgons-in-greek-mythology.html

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