Current Events > 2d games really needed one more generation in the spotlight

(+) Yeah! (+)

2d games of the 16 bit and 8 bit era (and the Vectrex) were great. But 2d games were really impressive at that time at the arcades. The 32 bit games on consoles like the Saturn and Playstation were also good, arcade ports and such. Gameboy Advance is where a lot of the scene went, but I feel the way all its games are designed for that screen size limits the games on it a bit.

We do have several very good indie games now, which is the best we can hope for. But I do wish 5th gen AAA devs hadn't jumped ship so suddenly on 2d gaming. I get it, whats bigger than 3d. But still, I think theres tons of room for 2d genres to improve even further.

Yeah it didn't last long enough.
I thought the Gameboy Advance was going to bring it back, but most games on it sucked ass. It's like all the developers were new to game design, or forgot how to do it right.

Frizzurd posted...

Yeah it didn't last long enough.
I thought the Gameboy Advance was going to bring it back, but most games on it sucked ass. It's like all the developers were new to game design, or forgot how to do it right.

I just want games that look and play as good as 90s arcade games, but with the depth of home console games. We never really got to that point.

most modern 2d games are better than their predecessors

3d is better and allows you to do more

Kaiganeer posted...

most modern 2d games are better than their predecessors

I can't think of any examples on my end. Though the only series that I've played both the new and old versions would be Mario and Donkey Kong Country, and their new 2d games are good but they do not hold up to their 16 bit and 8 bit predecessors (though Tropical Freeze is very good).

I do want to play Streets of Rage 4. It's crazy I haven't cause I love beatemups. But I just never buy games new. However since I love the genre I probably should get that to show support.

unnamedsoldier posted...

3d is better and allows you to do more

They are just different branches of gaming. You say "allows you to do more", but 2d may allow the devs to do more they couldn't afford to in 3d. You can get great games either way, they're not exclusionary to each other.

I think theres tons but youre not looking well enough.

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I think it's had a brilliant run in the indie scene, though I guess you're thinking of Nintendo's more traditional genres, with your examples.

But damn do I love the whole "topdown speedkilling" thing that got popular. Hotline Miami, Hyper Light Drifter, Katana ZERO, all different genres, but they have that same meta concept.

Also, you might be interested in Phoenotopia: Awakening. It's the 2D Zelda game you always dreamed of.

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Lairen posted...

I think theres tons but youre not looking well enough.

I've played some great games of recent years, but very few that moved their genre forward.

Say Cuphead for shmups, or Mother Russia Bleeds for beatemups. Amazing games. Really mastered the moment to moment movement and mechanics and situations of their genres. But, they don't really do much to move their genres forward. They're both really good, but pretty standard games in their genres as far as structure.

I like Stardew Valley a lot. Idk how much I'd say it "moves the genre forward". It just did what the Harvest Moon publisher/devs didn't have the sense to do, which was make a game from all the best parts of harvest moon. But it is definitely a fantastic game.

Monster Sanctuary is amazing

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Like others have said, the indie scene is keeping it alive, but I admittedly can't think of many platformers in the DK or Mario vein. They're typically either puzzle platformers or brutally difficult ones.

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To give you guys an example, there's this game called Dragonview for the SNES I like. It has hacknslash/beatemup gameplay, but it's an RPG with a story, and towns to visit, npcs, random encounters, quests, etc etc (between locations you travel in a mode 7 psuedo open world).

To my knowledge it is very unique in the 16 bit era. It was a real attempt to do more within the hacknslash/beatemup format. Make a full experience that you would have never had or been able to have in the arcade.

This game needed a 32 bit sequel. I've seen other beatemups as the genre started to die, and some indie games, introduce RPG mechanics. However, it usually just boils down to "hacknslash/beatemup game where you also level up". Not like Dragonview. Dragonview is an actual RPG (albeit a very simple one) that uses beatemup perspective and gameplay.

If 2d games had just a little more time in the limelight in the 90s, I think we could have seen more gameplay innovations like that. Elevating old genres to new heights.

https://youtu.be/re9L64MzJYI

JimmyFraska posted...

I've played some great games of recent years, but very few that moved their genre forward.

Say Cuphead for shmups, or Mother Russia Bleeds for beatemups. Amazing games. Really mastered the moment to moment movement and mechanics and situations of their genres. But, they don't really do much to move their genres forward. They're both really good, but pretty standard games in their genres as far as structure.

I like Stardew Valley a lot. Idk how much I'd say it "moves the genre forward". It just did what the Harvest Moon publisher/devs didn't have the sense to do, which was make a game from all the best parts of harvest moon. But it is definitely a fantastic game.

Now youre going on about "moving genre forward". Subjective as hell but thats a far cry from old school 2d games.

I want an old school game thats new and moves the genre forward....

Ok.

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Lairen posted...

Now youre going on about "moving genre forward". Subjective as hell but thats a far cry from old school 2d games.

I want an old school game thats new and moves the genre forward....

Ok.

Please read my follow up post, I give an example.

Oh, and Party Hard, I really liked Party Hard.

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JimmyFraska posted...

Please read my follow up post, I give an example.

You didnt cover its abomination 3d world map....

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Lairen posted...

You didnt cover its abomination 3d world map....

I did mention the mode 7 map in my post. I like that feature.

It's not that the Dragonview is so amazing, but that its ideas were innovative in ways other devs were not attempting at all in the 16 bit era. If this game had been poular enough to get a bigger sequel, it could have been really incredible.

JimmyFraska posted...

I did mention the mode 7 map in my post. I like that feature.

It's not that the Dragonview is so amazing, but that its ideas were innovative in ways other devs were not attempting at all in the 16 bit era. If this game had been poular enough to get a bigger sequel, it could have been really incredible.

If youre forcing me to name action/beat em up rpgs then i guess Legend of Mana plays like Dragon view sort of...

Id also suggest trials of mana either the newer remake or original on the mana collection..

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Ooh, another good example in its own time is Zelda 2. Obviously not a perfect game, but they were attempting to be innovative and it is a really cool game.

sad part is that there are a bunch of great snes games that America didn't even get because Nintendo shifted all its weight to the 64. Terranigma is considered to be one of the best arpgs on the console, yet people only now are figuring out it exists.

Guide posted...

Also, you might be interested in Phoenotopia: Awakening. It's the 2D Zelda game you always dreamed of.

Ima check this out.

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Ivany2008 posted...

sad part is that there are a bunch of great snes games that America didn't even get because Nintendo shifted all its weight to the 64. Terranigma is considered to be one of the best arpgs on the console, yet people only now are figuring out it exists.

Oh yeah. I collect Super Famicom (and original Famicom) games complete in box. So many great games we miss out on.

An amazing thing I saw recently was regarding Street Fighter Alpha 2. Should not be able to run on snes but it does. However its always had these 3 or 4 moments as you start a fight, where it will pause for several seconds.

It ends up this year fans of the game found out, it was cause of some messed up audio files. They replaced those audio files on the rom, and now the game does not have the pausing problem, and it actually really makes the port shine.

3D was the new and exciting thing. Almost to the point where 2D games were seen as dated. There was no real chance of that happening.

I would recommend looking at the indie space from the last 10 years though.

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I thought Illusion of Gaia was waaaay better than Terranigma.

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Summon Night Sword Craft story 1 and 2 for gba.

@JimmyFraska

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While not graphically impressive I thought Bloodstained RoTN was a really fun non pixel 2D game.

I think there is still room for innovation in 2D games because even others like Blasphemous, Salt & Sanctuary and Hollow Knight were very good games but I still think there is more that can be done.

With a bigger budget and willing to try to take a risk or two I think you could make some super sick 2D games even today.

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Lairen posted...

Summon Night Sword Craft story 1 and 2 for gba.

@JimmyFraska

2 especially is very underrated. I wish it got a full budget approach though, because you can still feel the limitations of the console.

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